Is The Team Tuning Out Bylsma? Thoughts?

[stardog]

I'm trying not to be reactionary and tonight's game against The Rangers certainly isn't the only loss which it looked like the Penguins didn't even try.

This game the Pens looked absolutely uninspired. There is a difference between playing poorly and not trying and for the second or third time this season the teamed looked like they were doing the latter.

I am not trying to say that the team is certainly tuning out the coach, or that they are trying to get him fired, but there is a possibility that the team, or at least certain players on the team are not feeling Bylsma's message anymore.

Of course this calls for speculation but the last time I saw the Penguins play such uninspired hockey was in the past couple of weeks before Therrien was canned. The difference being of course, that this team is winning while that one was not.
Perhaps it is only certain players who are growing weary of the coaches message, perhaps it is none. But usually when a team loses it is because of mistakes... Not because of a complete lack of effort...

Trying to not read to much into this so I thought I'd ask for opinions.

Click to read more...

 

[Captain Hook]

It was one game. Games like this happen to every team.

 

[66-30-33]

No they are not.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

We had this thread last season during that mini-slide. The emphatic answer from the club is the players love Bylsma and Shero gave him an extension.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Doubtful. If anything this reeked of Bylsma's usual, no adapting, stupid lines, stupid d pairings and poor player management, and inevitably getting frustrated when they can't ram their head through a brick wall. They didn't get to their game, which is Bylsma's message; it's possible that Dan just has a ****** message.

Bad games do just happen, they're human and I don't think this team handles long breaks well. A coach might want to fix that, though.

 

[#66]

No... During these first few games I'm actually really happy to see some of the things the Pens have done. Cleaning up around MAF is huge as well as Sutter playing well.

Tonight seemed like a NY trap to me. The Pens looked like the spent a little to much time out in the city more than anything.

I really hate losing to the Rangers but it happens.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm trying not to be reactionary and tonight's game against The Rangers certainly isn't the only loss which it looked like the Penguins didn't even try.

This game the Pens looked absolutely uninspired. There is a difference between playing poorly and not trying and for the second or third time this season the teamed looked like they were doing the latter.

I am not trying to say that the team is certainly tuning out the coach, or that they are trying to get him fired, but there is a possibility that the team, or at least certain players on the team are not feeling Bylsma's message anymore.

Of course this calls for speculation but the last time I saw the Penguins play such uninspired hockey was in the past couple of weeks before Therrien was canned. The difference being of course, that this team is winning while that one was not.
Perhaps it is only certain players who are growing weary of the coaches message, perhaps it is none. But usually when a team loses it is because of mistakes... Not because of a complete lack of effort...

Trying to not read to much into this so I thought I'd ask for opinions.

stardog, I know you're just trying to generate discussion, but in spite of multiple key injuries we're 1st in the East, and had been riding a 4 game win streak heading into this game, including a fantastic win over the reigning EC champs.

I don't see a single loss to the Rangers as reasonable justification for a thread like this.

 

[cheesedanish87]

There should be some type of rule on this site that you have to wait so many hours after a lose before a new thread can be opened.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

There should be some type of rule on this site that you have to wait so many hours after a lose before a new thread can be opened.

It's like you think someone wouldn't stew on it for hours and then post it once the ban is over anyway. Write it up, [wait, add something, wait, remove something, add something, wait, put back what was removed, wait, wait, edit], post.

 

[cheesedanish87]

It's like you think someone wouldn't stew on it for hours and then post it once the ban is over anyway. Write it up, [wait, add something, wait, remove something, add something, wait, put back what was removed, wait, wait, edit], post.

I think sometimes people(myself included) will be pissed right after a lose and try to over analyze one game.

 

[stardog]

stardog, I know you're just trying to generate discussion, but in spite of multiple key injuries we're 1st in the East, and had been riding a 4 game win streak heading into this game, including a fantastic win over the reigning EC champs.

I don't see a single loss to the Rangers as reasonable justification for a thread like this.

Again, it isn't the loss, it is the lack of effort that have sprung up multiple times this season. This one stands out of course, as do a few of the games against Boston going back to last year.

I dont mind losses in the context that every team loses, and I am not speculating. I am simply pointing out a valid possibility.
And it IS a valid possibility.

I've been around awhile and like to think I know my hockey just like most of the regulars on here, so if I bring it up then there is a valid reason for it.

Yes, we have won 11 games. Yes, we are first in the east. But let's not be so naive to think that has little to do with who is behind the bench rather than who is on the ice. Lets not be so naive to pretend that every single player in that locker room likes or trusts their coach. Many of the long timers here know that back when I used to live in Da Burgh, I hung out with a few of the players and guys on the staff. I was even fortunate enough to be in the locker room during two games back at the old igloo (awesome). Now those guys have moved on and only Orpik remains from that time but one of the things I learned is that players say one thing to the media and quite another amongst themselves.

Am I suggesting that they are trying to get him fired? Not really.
But do I think that there is a strong possibility that they don't trust, or have tuned out their coach? Of course there is that possibility.

They play the same game which we watch and are a part of the frustration which we see.
It is funny to see such a negative reaction to this thread considering all of the hate Bylsma gets.
Again, yes...we are in first place. Cool beans. Does that mean it is because of Bylsma's great coaching or because we have two of the greatest players in the world?

You already know the answer to that question and it isn't like the players aren't aware of that answer as well.

 

[stardog]

There should be some type of rule on this site that you have to wait so many hours after a lose before a new thread can be opened.

Ok. You're right. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to think that not one single player in that locker room doesn't trust their coach.

I guess it is only the majority of fans who see the problems and the players themselves aren't aware of the fundamental issues of the coaching staff... Only hockeysfutures expert posters are... But yeah, that's what I'm known for. Starting reactionary threads.

You're logic far outweighs mine.

 

[mpp9]

Malkin was going through the motions for alot of this game. I understand the guy's frustrated with not scoring in 9 games now, and his linemates not being able to give him the puck with speed or in any kind of scoring area, but that **** is pretty troubling.

 

[stardog]

Malkin was going through the motions for alot of this game. I understand the guy's frustrated with not scoring in 9 games now, and his linemates not being able to give him the puck with speed or in any kind of scoring area, but that **** is pretty troubling.

Malkin is really what concerns me the most right now. He hasn't been Malkin this season. He has gone through streaks before but he always seemed to have that jump. Tonight he looked like he didn't even care about the outcome. No hustle, effort or jump. And this guy has been my favorite player since he joined the team.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I think sometimes people(myself included) will be pissed right after a lose and try to over analyze one game.

Sure, I usually get over being pissed in 20 minutes to an hour, but some people are still going to be raging for who knows how long. Those people will still start a thread.

Not that this thread is raging, it just kind of popped up.

 

[mpp9]

Malkin is really what concerns me the most right now. He hasn't been Malkin this season. He has gone through streaks before but he always seemed to have that jump. Tonight he looked like he didn't even care about the outcome. No hustle, effort or jump. And this guy has been my favorite player since he joined the team.

I saw him have the jump in his step last week. Then it looked like he was angry as **** in the Columbus game. And now, I agree, he seems disinterested.

 

[DegenX]

I can see why you might think that.

There's a certain amount of inconsistency in the way the team plays. Saturday they were great defensively, tonight, not so much. That there are such wild swings in how they play certainly makes me wonder just how much control HCDB really has.

Tonight, the team gave up. Other nights they get too cocky and let teams back in when they should be closing the door. Some nights, they come to play and play well. Again, it makes me wonder.

And as for the certain players, I'm guessing Geno is in there? Tonight looked like one of those nights. But, by the same token, I'm frustrated with a lot of things that are happening with Malkin: in terms of his line mates, where he's at on the PP, working on his face offs only to have some one else come in to take them (this one is especially frustrating because it started happening after he was playing well with Megna and it messes up that chemistry because Megna is sitting), taking more and more shifts as a winger when he's a center ... tl;dr I don't want to project how I'd be feeling on to Malkin. Just because I'd be really frustrated at this point doesn't mean he is.

So, yeah, I can see why you'd wonder if the team is quitting on HCDB. There have certainly been rumors, and he looks less in control as more time passes. But, there's really no way to know at this point.

:EDIT - While I was typing up my novella, you posted about being concerned about Malkin:

 

[cheesedanish87]

Ok. You're right. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to think that not one single player in that locker room doesn't trust their coach.

I guess it is only the majority of fans who see the problems and the players themselves aren't aware of the fundamental issues of the coaching staff... Only hockeysfutures expert posters are... But yeah, that's what I'm known for. Starting reactionary threads.

You're logic far outweighs mine.

Pens are arguably the hardest working team in the NHL, that's not something a team does that tunes out its coach, teams in every sport Football Baseball Basketball Hockey have games like this over the course of the year, if the pens play 5 games in a row like this then you might have a point, but not after one bad game.

 

[KIRK]

Malkin is really what concerns me the most right now. He hasn't been Malkin this season. He has gone through streaks before but he always seemed to have that jump. Tonight he looked like he didn't even care about the outcome. No hustle, effort or jump. And this guy has been my favorite player since he joined the team.

Uh, it's not just this season. Save for when Crosby was out and when Malkin played with Kunitz and Neal, Malkin hasn't been Malkin since the Pens won the cup (and Tony Granato replaced Tom Fitzgerald being in charge of the forwards).

I said some time ago that the Pens won't win another cup unless one of Bylsma or Malkin goes. I see no reason to be anything but more resolute in that statement now.

EDIT: I don't think Malkin is tuning out Bylsma. I think he's on some nights going through the motions. It reminds me a little of Sid right before Therrien was fired. Some nights were great. Some just made you scratch your head. Thing is, this roster is better than the one Therrien had before he was fired and Sid is rolling against the **** teams, so the record becomes an excuse to ignore what's there with respect to Malkin (and KCD, which is another different issue). Then, the playoffs come, and you know . . .

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Uh, it's not just this season. Save for when Crosby was out and when Malkin played with Kunitz and Neal, Malkin hasn't been Malkin since the Pens won the cup (and Tony Granato replaced Tom Fitzgerald being in charge of the forwards).

I said some time ago that the Pens won't win another cup unless one of Bylsma or Malkin goes. I see no reason to be anything but more resolute in that statement now.

EDIT: I don't think Malkin is tuning out Bylsma. I think he's on some nights going through the motions. It reminds me a little of Sid right before Therrien was fired. Some nights were great. Some just made you scratch your head. Thing is, this roster is better than the one Therrien had before he was fired and Sid is rolling against the **** teams, so the record becomes an excuse to ignore what's there with respect to Malkin (and KCD, which is another different issue). Then, the playoffs come, and you know . . .

We steamroll the bad teams, but then lose to the teams even remotely equal to us and wonder how that keeps happening?

 

[KIRK]

I saw him have the jump in his step last week. Then it looked like he was angry as **** in the Columbus game. And now, I agree, he seems disinterested.

Save the time he was with Kunitz, we've been doing this dance since 2009. 'Malkin, get your head out of your ***' can make you feel better but resolves nothing. He obviously isn't flipping a switch, and Bylsma obviously has no clue how to handle him when Sid is in the lineup. Something has to give. You can't have a guy making what Malkin makes who is unable to perform at an appropriate level for the coach you have when Sid is healthy. Makes it impossible to win a cup.

 

[KIRK]

We steamroll the bad teams, but then lose to the teams equal to or better than us and wonder how that keeps happening?

That's why WASH, RINSE, REPEAT should be this team's motto.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

We can only hope... *fingers crossed*

 

[Speaking Moistly]

That's why WASH, RINSE, REPEAT should be this team's motto.

"Get to our game," sounds better.

 

[KIRK]

"Get to our game," sounds better.

A distinction without a difference if there ever was one.