I think Petan needs to go to the AHL when Raffl is good and healthy. Let him play top minutes there and develop as opposed to spending the majority of games watching the hockey from the bench. He's talented, but the coaches aren't going to give him top 6 minutes or even a 3rd line role this season. Ehlers didn't really have anything left to prove in the Q, and Copp has been alright in the 4th line Center role. I'm more worried about the fact that our AHL team is awful and the only prospects there that look capable of stepping into the NHL if called up are the goalies. At least it looks like Connor/Roslovic are doing well with their respective teams.
Is the Jets Development side broken?
- Thread starter Mud Turtle
- Start date
I think Petan needs to go to the AHL when Raffl is good and healthy. Let him play top minutes there and develop as opposed to spending the majority of games watching the hockey from the bench. He's talented, but the coaches aren't going to give him top 6 minutes or even a 3rd line role this season. Ehlers didn't really have anything left to prove in the Q, and Copp has been alright in the 4th line Center role. I'm more worried about the fact that our AHL team is awful and the only prospects there that look capable of stepping into the NHL if called up are the goalies. At least it looks like Connor/Roslovic are doing well with their respective teams.
Ehlers is in a special situation but he could use AHL time also.
Copp and Petan should be in the A playing 20 minutes a night. Until they prove they are NHL players.
What happened to all the competition for spots they were promoting ? Push from within, over ripen prospects ?
Ehlers can't play in the AHL this season, part of the reason why he was promoted from the Q to the Jets rather than shipped overseas to develop further against men.
How do you prove you are an NHL player from the AHL? O'Dell was a pretty good AHLer, but a marginal NHL player.
I think Copp has already shown that he's ready for the NHL.
Petan has struggled playing the wing, and without skilled linemates. I expect that he would be more effective in a different role in the NHL.
Ehlers is easily one of our top 5 forwards. He doesn't need AHL time. He can play at a level as a 19 year-old such that he can develop in the NHL.
If you replaced "Petan" with "Wellwood" it would be like HF Boards Leafs in 2006....just for some perspective.
Disagree about Ehlers. He needs to be in the NHL and learning to adapt against the best. Earlier in the season he took advantage of the room available to him in the center of the ice, due in part because he was unknown, and part we were playing most of our games against the East which tend to play it a little more wide open. Now against some of the tougher teams in the Central that room is being closed down. Time and space has disapeared for him. He needs to find ways to generate offense against the tight checking of the West. While Ehlers can't go to the A, going down to less skilled competition just allows him to do things he is already good at with the room to do it. To excel in the NHL he needs to learn how to do it against the players he will be lining up against for the next 15 years, not against players he can dominate against.
Jetfaninflorida
Southernmost Jet Fan
I agree with this. Out of the four newbies, Ehlers is the one that is ready and can contribute now. It won't be easy and there will be peaks and valleys. One of my concerns is that there is still a lot of east / west in his game. If he lets his guard down for a moment, he could really get crushed playing with the big boys. But by all accounts he is very aware out there. I think that awareness has him a bit more timid than at the beginning of the year based upon the angle and approach that he now takes going into puck battles along the boards. By the way, that's probably a good thing. His impact will be felt on the open ice, not in the corners.
Certainly Ehlers is in the right place now - and I agree with the east/west thing, although I've seen a bit less of it in the last few games. I'm wondering if it's something they've been advising him about, and he's been "overthinking" it which would slow him down a bit?
veganhunter
Mexico City Coyotes!
What this team is doing makes no sense to me whatsoever. They had 2 real options this summer
1. Commit to a youth movement and year of development: that involves sticking with your talented rookies through thick and thin. Letting them play and taking your lumps that come with their learning curve.
2. Being a real playoff contender this year: that involved signing some veterans that are actually talented and maybe adding 1 rookie but having the depth to shelter him and remain competitive.
Instead what the Jets have chosen to do is to fill 3 forward spots with rookies, shelter 1, continuously take 1 in and out of the line up for a guy who has 11 career points in 115 career games, and yo-yo 1 rookies minutes down to 4-5 with no special teams minutes, when the aforementioned rookie comes out for the aforementioned lunkhead.
So your not letting 2 of these guys really develop but you don't have any NHL level talent to replace them to be a playoff contender. What are you trying to accomplish?
1. Commit to a youth movement and year of development: that involves sticking with your talented rookies through thick and thin. Letting them play and taking your lumps that come with their learning curve.
2. Being a real playoff contender this year: that involved signing some veterans that are actually talented and maybe adding 1 rookie but having the depth to shelter him and remain competitive.
Instead what the Jets have chosen to do is to fill 3 forward spots with rookies, shelter 1, continuously take 1 in and out of the line up for a guy who has 11 career points in 115 career games, and yo-yo 1 rookies minutes down to 4-5 with no special teams minutes, when the aforementioned rookie comes out for the aforementioned lunkhead.
So your not letting 2 of these guys really develop but you don't have any NHL level talent to replace them to be a playoff contender. What are you trying to accomplish?
Jetfaninflorida
Southernmost Jet Fan
We went through something different but similar at the trade deadline in the 13-14 season. We were 1 point out of a playoff spot a few weeks after Maurice came in. The team was playing very well. Our number 2 center went down with a knee injury. So normal course of action was to either pick someone up at the trade deadline to make a run for the playoffs, or bail and trade away our free agents for value. We did neither.
Now Seto and the Joker weren't worth much. But late draft picks here and there all help. Either as throw ins to close future trades, or to maybe get lucky with a diamond in the rough provided you have a strong development program.
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Like who? Most of our top prospects have been ushered right into the NHL and it's way too soon to judge Morrissey.
If you ignore the fact that Scheif, Trouba, Ehlers, Petan, et al spent time in either the NCAA or back with their CHL clubs, sure. None of them have gone through the AHL - arguably Petan should have. Ehlers is a bit of a special case - too good to go back to the Q, and not eligible for the A.
So is it a good thing that Red Berenson has developed more Jets prospects than Keith McCambridge?
Detroits system is really interesting to look at.
19 players on their roster drafted by the organization.
but all the big names are over 30
Gustav Nyquist? He's 26
Tatar Is 24.
Any drafted player under 24 is playing bit part/low scoring role with the redwings at this point (aside from Larkin)
If not for snaggin Larkin they'd look really odd with old father time catching up to Kronwall, Zetterberg, Franen, and Datsyuk.
they've got a tonne of bit pieces there, but they haven't managed to snag many high performers.
Interestingly enough, they've hit on 2nd and 4th round picks almost as frequently as they have with their 1st rounders (larkin, Sheahan, Kindle, and Kronwall VS Jurco, Tatar, Ferraro, Abdelkader VS Athanasiou, Pulkkinen, Nyquist, and Quincy)
I just don't understand it.
While they hit consistently they don't get much gold.
That being said, they are almost never drafting higher then 20th overall (and the one time they do they grab Larkin)
It's mind boggling.
Keep in mind though, it's impossible for the jets to have mimiced something like this given the amount of time it takes.
the jets first crop of draft prospects are only 22.
Detroit's under 22 list is Jurco (4gp), Athansio (5gp), and larkin.
Meanwhile the Jets is Scheifele, Lowry, Trouba, Ehlers, Petan( bit part), Copp (4th line/bit part)
veganhunter
Mexico City Coyotes!
Ahhhhhhh I remember the deadlines prior to last oh so fondly. Rife with indecision.
Again, who has busted with the IceCaps?
McCambridge has not had the opportunity to coach any significant prospects, outside of maybe Lowry and Hellebucyk. I'm not defending him, that's just the truth.
Saying that guys fail to meet expectations with our farm team is bunk because pretty much all of our prospects with actual NHL potential have started their pro career in the NHL.
It's more of an observation about the development methodology the Jets are employing. Trouba came straight from Michigan, as did Copp. Scheifele came from Barrie. Ehlers from Halifax. Petan from Portland. The Jets aren't developing a lot of these guys in the sense that they have direct control over them on the farm...
It's especially odd given how specific comments were made to the effect that Atlanta did not give their prospects due time to develop. I guess letting a guy play junior to 20 and then putting him up in the NHL is the counter to that? I had assumed that meant they'd want guys to start in the AHL and the exception would be guys who made the jump immediately. Our only 1st rounder who hasn't is Morrissey.
Except the only time he plays east - west in the offensive zone, where east - west means cutting through the scoring zone exactly like the big point getters do. The kid plays a type of game that will produce a lot of points one day.
- Jun 10, 2014
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This is an imaginary thing based on small sample size more than anything else. What you are describing is perfectly normal. Top 15 (more or less) picks don't need time in the A. Copp chose to stay in NCAA. We are talking 1 player here. If Petan gets sent down which it is looking more and more like he should, he will be the highest drafted player McCambridge has had the opportunity to work with.
- Jun 10, 2014
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- 29,282
Yes to the bold, without the ?. That is opposed to throwing them into the NHL at 18. 18 to 20 is a big difference. High draft picks with star potential don't normally need AHL time.
Josh Morrissey (13th overall) and Joel Armia (16th overall) say hello...
And I don't buy the "Top 15 picks don't need time in the A" stuff - Top 5 picks maybe.
Most guys picked 6-15 spend some time in the AHL. Some guys can make the jump, but a lot can't - or shouldn't. Some of the guys who do move right into the NHL played pro in Europe.
I imagine it's pretty rare to see two guys with 1 game of pro experience between them to be NHL linemates...not what I'd call a 'position to succeed'...
mcpw
WPG
- Jan 13, 2015
- 10,024
- 2,072
I looked at the nonrepresentative sample of 6-15 picks from 2006-2009 - skaters, >100 NHL GP.
>=40 AHL GP (17 players)
D.Brassard, B.Little, J.Tlusty, M.Grabner, L.Couture, K.Ellerby, B.Sutter, L.Eller, C.Wilson, M.Boedker, C.Hodgson, Z.Boychuk, N.Kadri, M.Paajarvi, R.Ellis, C.deHaan, P.Holland
<40 AHL GP (15 players)
K.Okposo, P.Mueller, J.Sheppard, M.Frolik, S.Gagner, J.Voracek, R.McDonagh, K.Shattenkirk, J.Bailey, T.Myers, E.Karlsson, O.Ekman-Larsson, J.Cowen, Z.Kassian, D.Kulikov
(best players bolded). "Forced" shortened season AHL games didn't count. Looks like a completely mixed bag to me.
