Is Sean Couturier the PMD this team needs?

[Jack de la Hoya]

what does PMD stand for ?

Puck Moving Defenseman.

 

[Bernie Parent 1974]

Puck Moving Defenseman.

ah, ok ..... i was thinking D, but didn't read thoroughly enough, knowing he's on offense .....

thx

[isn't Couts a bit small for defense, though ?]

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

ah, ok ..... i was thinking D, but didn't read thoroughly enough, knowing he's on offense .....

thx

[isn't Couts a bit small for defense, though ?]

I can understand the confusion.

But, no, size isn't the problem. Couturier would already be taller than most of our defenseman. He has a thin frame, but that will fill out over time.

There are a lot of issues with converting Couturier--but size isn't one of them, IMO.

 

[JustJim]

Under the correct direction from a better coaching staff, I could see this idea become a reality. However, until Holmgren actually hires a better coaching staff, ( which I sincerely doubt, because I don't think Holmer is a very good GM ), Cout's will remain at centre ice.....and in this stunted season he'll continue to struggle there.

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

Honestly, I see no reason to even do this.

It would make more sense for the Flyers and Couturier to trade him for a similarly-aged PMD than to try to convert him at this stage of his development.

(I don't think we should do that either, but given our organization's recent record with developing defensemen, I have no idea why anyone thinks that this is a remotely good idea. )

 

[ahthorne]

If they trade Couturier, it's another bad panic move. The kid shouldn't be moved, or we'll again watch another team find success with our talent. Unless they're blown away by an offer, that is...

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

If they trade Couturier, it's another bad panic move. The kid shouldn't be moved, or we'll again watch another team find success with our talent. Unless they're blown away by an offer, that is...

Agreed, but trading him for a young NHL defenseman makes a whole lot more sense to me than trying to transform him into a young NHL defenseman.

 

[Jack Straw]

Stick with me, folks...

Couts (offensive) development has IMO taken a clear step back, whilst his defense is still pretty great.

So how crazy is the idea of taking him from our 3C ( a spot Laughton seems ready for) and converting couts into a d man?

He already plays point on the PP, has a decent enough first pass (on par or better than 5 of our D men), plays exceptional defense, and isn't really being counted on for his offense anyway...

I'd like to point out that while I don't necessarily think its even a possibility, what does everyone think?

I agree that it's not even a possibility. He will be traded for a PMD before they convert him to one.

 

[Jack Straw]

Under the correct direction from a better coaching staff, I could see this idea become a reality. However, until Holmgren actually hires a better coaching staff, ( which I sincerely doubt, because I don't think Holmer is a very good GM ), Cout's will remain at centre ice.....and in this stunted season he'll continue to struggle there.

Hmm. Nice avatar...

 

[Flyers845]

Couturier is too soft to play defense

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Short answer: no. Long answer: nooooooooooooooo.

 

[Wud]

I'm not totally against the idea.... I like his demeanor and attitude. And with the shortage of good young defensemen in this league, I fear we wouldn't get some one of his caliber in return. He might end up being more valuable to us as a Dman..... however extremely risky.

Then there's the train of thought that alot of kids his age are still in the juniors where these transitions would take place.

 

[BillyStemhovilichski]

Couts needs to do the Jagr "big ass" workout so he can defend the puck like Jagr.

This is probably the one area of the game I'd really like to see him focus on during his early development.

One of the major problems I see with this Flyers team, and obviously I don't have the statistics to support it, is the lack of consistent offensive zone time. When you're in the offensive zone, you're wearing down the opposing defense, and by forcing defensive play, you're inherently preventing offensive presence by the opposing team. The Flyers' main offensive tactic seems to be transitional plays and rushes, which are no doubt fun to watch, but really have many problems when used as the sole offensive tactic.

If Laviolette could teach the young kids an offensive puck-possession game, his offensive system could really flourish. Couturier at a young age has demonstrated advanced defensive awareness in both zones. That's an asset to this system, though it appears not to be. I've always operated under the assumption that the center is essentially the third defenseman on the ice at all times. If the young centers could develop puck-possession in addition to defensive awareness in both zones, it would allow defenders to actually join the play in the offensive zone without (or minimizing) the risk of opposing counterattacks (which in my opinion is the second biggest defensive weakness on the team). Whereas other teams currently only have to hone in on the three forwards while maintaining eye-check defense on the points, the defensemen now become sneaky attackers able to jump into the play.

But yeah, from what I understand, Jagr's workout routine at a young age was absolutely phenomenal and focused on lower body and core strength. You see those abilities truly accentuated in players with strong puck-possession abilities. Crosby especially, who seems to have that "big ass" puck possession ability.

tl;dr: puck possession makes other teams tired, Flyers should get better at that, Jagr did lots of squats

 

[JustJim]

Hmm. Nice avatar...

Your's too!~

 

[flyershockey]

No. He will always play center in the NHL. I don't even think they consider moving him to wing either. He's got a skill set and size that you just want moving up the center of the ice and battling down low for pucks in either zone.

I will say that I would consider moving Couturier for a PMD in the same age range and potential level. I wouldn't jump on any deal to fill the need, but there are a handful of young defensemen that I would consider moving Couturier for.

 

[DrHamburg]

Couturier to defense doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If he can improve his faceoffs he would be more valueable as a defensive center than a subpar PMD. His skating isn't stellar. I do not think he has the slapper to be a big time player on the PP. He just simply has more value as a center.

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

To be honest, when I look at total skillsets, Read makes more sense as a convert than Couturier. (Gagne as well, but at this point, he wouldn't be moved).

But, like I said, I don't see a point to trying to transform a forward into a defenseman when 1) we can't seem to effectively develop our existing defensemen's offensive games, and 2) we could just trade a forward for a PMD.

 

[flyers28giroux]

I'm sorry, I just don't like the idea of converting Couturier into a defensemen, a move like that would just hinder his development.

I mean he's only 20 and has shown in a year and a half some bright flashes and the potential to become that shutdown, two-way centermen for this team going forward.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

You can't be serious with this idea. Horrible, horrible idea

 

[Amateur Hour]

This is probably the one area of the game I'd really like to see him focus on during his early development.

One of the major problems I see with this Flyers team, and obviously I don't have the statistics to support it, is the lack of consistent offensive zone time. When you're in the offensive zone, you're wearing down the opposing defense, and by forcing defensive play, you're inherently preventing offensive presence by the opposing team. The Flyers' main offensive tactic seems to be transitional plays and rushes, which are no doubt fun to watch, but really have many problems when used as the sole offensive tactic.

If Laviolette could teach the young kids an offensive puck-possession game, his offensive system could really flourish. Couturier at a young age has demonstrated advanced defensive awareness in both zones. That's an asset to this system, though it appears not to be. I've always operated under the assumption that the center is essentially the third defenseman on the ice at all times. If the young centers could develop puck-possession in addition to defensive awareness in both zones, it would allow defenders to actually join the play in the offensive zone without (or minimizing) the risk of opposing counterattacks (which in my opinion is the second biggest defensive weakness on the team). Whereas other teams currently only have to hone in on the three forwards while maintaining eye-check defense on the points, the defensemen now become sneaky attackers able to jump into the play.

But yeah, from what I understand, Jagr's workout routine at a young age was absolutely phenomenal and focused on lower body and core strength. You see those abilities truly accentuated in players with strong puck-possession abilities. Crosby especially, who seems to have that "big ass" puck possession ability.

tl;dr: puck possession makes other teams tired, Flyers should get better at that, Jagr did lots of squats

It's been a long time since I've posted here. I just wanted to quote this post, because it's smart and awesome and correct.

 

[BillDineen]

Scary stat:
Couturier GA On/60 last season - 1.59
Couturier GA On/60 this season - 3.46

 

[dats81]

Scary stat:
Couturier GA On/60 last season - 1.59
Couturier GA On/60 this season - 3.46

Unfortunately, it's not only his offensive game that is not coming along but he is also struggling in his shutdown role.

 

[Psuhockey]

He is having one of the worst sophomore slumps I have ever seen. That being said, Laviolette is doing him no favors by not playing him. Couturier needs to play his way out of this slump. I hope Lavy didn't permanently destroy his confidence.

One a side not, I am not sure why Couturier gets benched and the entire 2nd line gets a pass. The only time I notice the B.Schenn-Briere-Simmonds line lately is because the puck is stuck in the Flyers zone, theres an odd man rush with no forwards in site, or a stupid penalty just occurred.

 

[BillDineen]

He is having one of the worst sophomore slumps I have ever seen. That being said, Laviolette is doing him no favors by not playing him. Couturier needs to play his way out of this slump. I hope Lavy didn't permanently destroy his confidence.

One a side not, I am not sure why Couturier gets benched and the entire 2nd line gets a pass. The only time I notice the B.Schenn-Briere-Simmonds line lately is because the puck is stuck in the Flyers zone, theres an odd man rush with no forwards in site, or a stupid penalty just occurred.

2nd line has been painful to watch. Briere is a line killer.

Having said that, Talbot and Gagne played well last night, I would not mind moving Briere with Gags and Talbot and Read with Schenn and Simmonds. But who knows, maybe Briere just needs to go.

 

[Psuhockey]

2nd line has been painful to watch. Briere is a line killer.

Having said that, Talbot and Gagne played well last night, I would not mind moving Briere with Gags and Talbot and Read with Schenn and Simmonds. But who knows, maybe Briere just needs to go.

I would dump Briere, move B.Schenn to left wing and roll with B.Schenn Couturier Simmonds. Couturier is more defensively sound, maybe not this year, than B. Schenn and Simmonds. I think Brayden Schenn is better suited to left wing ultimately and should be moved there and kept there. Not just a two game tryout at his off wing, like they did before putting him on the right side with Giroux. If Couturier's future is as a two-way 2nd line center and not as a shutdown 3rd, give him some linemates who can help break him out of his slump and some easier assignments. However that is an actually tactical adjustment and just shuffling lines up to create a spark.