Former Bruins Is Ray Bourque a Top 10 All-Time Player?

[mjhfb]

The best line from that video - "if Orr hadn't been born, Park would have won 7 Norris trophies".

 

[HooperDrivesTheBoat]

Won’t argue with anyone mentioned above.

I will say that if he wanted to be, Malkin probably could have forced his way into the top 10-15.

I never got the feeling that he gave it his “all” consistently enough.

If he played every game with 1/2 the intensity or effort of a Clarke or O’Reilly, I think he’d be in that category.

Peter Forsberg, too, though his career was derailed by injuries. He was a beast.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

The best line from that video - "if Orr hadn't been born, Park would have won 7 Norris trophies".

Park only came in 2nd to Orr 4 times for the Norris trophy.

Not sure what that guy was talking about.

 

[mjd1001]

Great player yes. Hall of famer yes. Top 10 all time? No for sure.

 

[neelysbiggestfan]

That anyone would put a dog like Jagr in the same breath as a warrior like Ray Bourque - who logged 30 HARD minutes per night on average teams and dominated, is a disgrace.

Ray is so underrated - a top 10 player for me yes - top 15 at WORST.

 

[rfournier103]

Great player yes. Hall of famer yes. Top 10 all time? No for sure.

Ray is second or at worst third best defenseman of all time. If we exclude goalies and only consider skaters, the second best defenseman of all time should crack the top ten. The third best probably makes the top ten as well.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Ray is second or at worst third best defenseman of all time. If we exclude goalies and only consider skaters, the second best defenseman of all time should crack the top ten. The third best probably makes the top ten as well.

No one considers Bourque the 2nd best defenseman ever.

He's usually considered top 5 all-time.

 

[rfournier103]

No one considers Bourque the 2nd best defenseman ever.

He's usually considered top 5 all-time.

Really?

I’m someone, and I think he’s in the conversation for second best ever.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

No one considers Bourque the 2nd best defenseman ever.

He's usually considered top 5 all-time.

No one?

Sorry but there is a shitload of people out there who think so. Including me.

 

[Alicat]

Really?

I’m someone, and I think he’s in the conversation for second best ever.

Same here

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

No one considers Bourque the 2nd best defenseman ever.

Most people have him at #2 edging out Harvey and Lidstrom

 

[jgatie]

Same here

Ditto. He certainly has the numbers and I dare anybody to name a single defenseman who was in the top 3 for more years than Ray Bourque .

 

[rfournier103]

Presently, Ray is #11 on the all-time points list - three spots ahead of Paul Coffey. Unlike Coffey, Bourque never played forward on the power play and certainly never played eight seasons with anyone like Wayne Gretzky between Edmonton and LA, or four and a half seasons with Mario Lemieux in Pittsburgh. As much as we love the Bruins, if we’re being honest with ourselves, the only great players Bourque ever had as teammates on the Bruins were Cam Neely and Adam Oates. There were several good players here and there who had a good season here and there, but the Bruins of Bourque’s era were mostly a collection of JAGs.

That Ray ever got that many points is astounding.

 

[PepeBostones]

13x AS-1
6x AS-2
15x Norris Top 3

Unbelievable. Ray Bourque was a top elite, a complete player. Consistantly great.

For my money Ray Bourque is easily 2nd only to Bobby Orr among defensemen
He could easily have won 8-10 Norris. Definitely better than Doug Wilson, Rod Langway (2) and Chris Chelios

Bourque should have won Norris in 81-82; 82-83; 83-84 easily and more. That puts him up there with Orr’s eight while it could have been ten. Where do you go.

But Bourque didn’t have the supporting cast of the other D

I have all the respect for Eddie Shore, Doug Harvey, Denis Potvin, Larry Robinson, Niklas Lidstrom, Chris Chelios, Zdeno Chara.
All of them were surrounded by Hall of Famers or close to.

Shore had Lionel Hitchman, George Owen, later Babe Siebert, Flash Hollett and Dit Clapper and 6-7 star forwards

Harvey had Ken Reardon, Butch Bouchard, Tom Johnson later Dollard St. Laurent and Jean-Guy Talbot and 6-7 star forwards

Potvin had Stefan Persson, Tomas Jonsson, Ken Morrow, Dave Langevin and 6-7 star forwards

Robinson had Serge Savard, Guy Lapointe and top star forwards

Niklas Lidstrom had Vladimir Konstantinov, Viacheslav Fetisov, Larry Murphy part Chris Chelios, part Paul Coffey, Matthieu Schneider and 6-7 star forwards

Chelios had Larry Robinson, Eric Desjardins, Petr Svoboda in Montreal plus top forwards
Chelios had Doug Wilson, Gary Suter, Eric Weinrich in Chicago plus
Coffey had Kevin Lowe, Charlie Huddy, Randy Gregg and super star forwards

Brad Park had better supporting cast in New York with Jim Neilson, Tim Horton and Rod Seiling and I loved him in the summit series. Again in Boston Park was the lone star D

Zdeno Chara is a great leader and top defensive D who also brought some offense and toughness but no way in the same class as Raymond Bourque.
Put Bourque on defense to replace Park in 1979 and Bruins win. Put Bourque on defense to replace Chara in 2019 and Bruins win.

You say Ray didn’t win a cup in Boston. True, but once getting some quality help he won one in Colorado. Look what Harvey, Lidstrom and guys had to work with and compare to Ray.

Get an idea how good Bourque and Cam Neely were. Really great and top players.
Ray Bourque top ten all the way for me.

I believe in building from the defense and it’s hard to find ten better or more valuable players than a Raymond Bourque. Ability to perform at the highest level for so long is hard to find.

 

[jgatie]

13x AS-1
6x AS-2
15x Norris Top 3

Unbelievable. Ray Bourque was a top elite, a complete player. Consistantly great.

For my money Ray Bourque is easily 2nd only to Bobby Orr among defensemen
He could easily have won 8-10 Norris. Definitely better than Doug Wilson, Rod Langway (2) and Chris Chelios

Bourque should have won Norris in 81-82; 82-83; 83-84 easily and more. That puts him up there with Orr’s eight while it could have been ten. Where do you go.

But Bourque didn’t have the supporting cast of the other D

I have all the respect for Eddie Shore, Doug Harvey, Denis Potvin, Larry Robinson, Niklas Lidstrom, Chris Chelios, Zdeno Chara.
All of them were surrounded by Hall of Famers or close to.

Shore had Lionel Hitchman, George Owen, later Babe Siebert, Flash Hollett and Dit Clapper and 6-7 star forwards

Harvey had Ken Reardon, Butch Bouchard, Tom Johnson later Dollard St. Laurent and Jean-Guy Talbot and 6-7 star forwards

Potvin had Stefan Persson, Tomas Jonsson, Ken Morrow, Dave Langevin and 6-7 star forwards

Robinson had Serge Savard, Guy Lapointe and top star forwards

Niklas Lidstrom had Vladimir Konstantinov, Viacheslav Fetisov, Larry Murphy part Chris Chelios, part Paul Coffey, Matthieu Schneider and 6-7 star forwards

Chelios had Larry Robinson, Eric Desjardins, Petr Svoboda in Montreal plus top forwards
Chelios had Doug Wilson, Gary Suter, Eric Weinrich in Chicago plus
Coffey had Kevin Lowe, Charlie Huddy, Randy Gregg and super star forwards

Brad Park had better supporting cast in New York with Jim Neilson, Tim Horton and Rod Seiling and I loved him in the summit series. Again in Boston Park was the lone star D

Zdeno Chara is a great leader and top defensive D who also brought some offense and toughness but no way in the same class as Raymond Bourque.
Put Bourque on defense to replace Park in 1979 and Bruins win. Put Bourque on defense to replace Chara in 2019 and Bruins win.

You say Ray didn’t win a cup in Boston. True, but once getting some quality help he won one in Colorado. Look what Harvey, Lidstrom and guys had to work with and compare to Ray.

Get an idea how good Bourque and Cam Neely were. Really great and top players.
Ray Bourque top ten all the way for me.

I believe in building from the defense and it’s hard to find ten better or more valuable players than a Raymond Bourque. Ability to perform at the highest level for so long is hard to find.

Please don't post in itty bitty fonts. Some of us are old, and we'd like to be able to read. To read that, I'd need to put the normal font up to billboard size.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Most people have him at #2 edging out Harvey and Lidstrom

OK, I should have said non-Bruins diehards.

General consensus of hockey historians is Orr and Harvey are 1 and 2. Then Shore, Bourque, Lidstrom and Potvin the next four in whatever order.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

OK, I should have said non-Bruins diehards.

General consensus of hockey historians is Orr and Harvey are 1 and 2. Then Shore, Bourque, Lidstrom and Potvin the next four in whatever order.

Even non Bruin diehards think he is 2

What a terrible defense

 

[rfournier103]

OK, I should have said non-Bruins diehards.

General consensus of hockey historians is Orr and Harvey are 1 and 2. Then Shore, Bourque, Lidstrom and Potvin the next four in whatever order.

Lists and rankings like this are often subjective and partisan.

Canadiens fans will say Harvey is #2. Some Habs fans might even say Robinson is 2. Red Wings fans will argue for Lidsrom, and Islanders fans will say Potvin.

They’re all wrong, of course, but debates like this are what make being a FANatic fun. I love this forum.

 

[McGarnagle]

The older I get, the less I care about ranking things. Best player or best defenseman ever is an abstract concept not based in concrete reality. I try to stop myself from putting too much time into debating abstract or hypothetical things (then again, what else can we do during the offseason?)

That said, on the surface, not a top ten player. Probably a top 5, likely top 3 defenseman. But how can you compare players from 1926 with 2023 or anywhere in between when the game, conditioning, equipment, rules, competition, strategy, etc. changes all the time? Guys like Orr are transcendent, but can someone really make a conclusive and objective statement trying to compare Eddie Shore and Victor Hedman, for example?

 

[jgatie]

Even non Bruin diehards think he is 2

What a terrible defense

It's his only shtick. Gets boring, doesn't it?

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

The older I get, the less I care about ranking things. Best player or best defenseman ever is an abstract concept not based in concrete reality. I try to stop myself from putting too much time into debating abstract or hypothetical things (then again, what else can we do during the offseason?)

That said, on the surface, not a top ten player. Probably a top 5, likely top 3 defenseman. But how can you compare players from 1926 with 2023 or anywhere in between when the game, conditioning, equipment, rules, competition, strategy, etc. changes all the time? Guys like Orr are transcendent, but can someone really make a conclusive and objective statement trying to compare Eddie Shore and Victor Hedman, for example?

What a nice fence sitting reply this is.

“I will go in length of an opinion to tell everyone I don’t have one”

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

OK, I should have said non-Bruins diehards.

General consensus of hockey historians is Orr and Harvey are 1 and 2. Then Shore, Bourque, Lidstrom and Potvin the next four in whatever order.

Yeah, there's a lot of historians that have him #2 as well. Go to the history board, it's basically a 50/50 split between him and Harvey for #2

 

[jgatie]

Yeah, there's a lot of historians that have him #2 as well. Go to the history board, it's basically a 50/50 split between him and Harvey for #2

P'shaw! Who needs actual data when you have oppositional bias?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Even non Bruin diehards think he is 2

What a terrible defense

In the History of Hockey forum on this sight, Bourque is ranked (last rankings in 2019) as 3rd behind Orr and Harvey. He is also ranked 10th overall. So yes, some voters probably had Bourque at 2. But most did not.

Anyway, I will concede. There are some hockey historians that would place Bourque 2nd. Though most have Harvey solidly at #2.

I would rank him 4th behind Orr, Harvey & Shore. Shore won 4 Hart trophies and was generally considered the best and most entertaining player in the game in the 1930's.

Yeah, there's a lot of historians that have him #2 as well. Go to the history board, it's basically a 50/50 split between him and Harvey for #2

I've been there.

I'm one of the voters for those rankings.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Yeah, there's a lot of historians that have him #2 as well. Go to the history board, it's basically a 50/50 split between him and Harvey for #2

I've checked the 32 voters original rankings. 5 voters had Bourque over Harvey. During the 2nd round of voting, 4 others changed their vote to Bourque.

So not quite a 50/50 split.