Is Nick Lidstrom underrated or overrated

[ViktorBaeArvidsson]

Neither, he’s a hall of famer lol

 

[Dingo]

I think you have it backwards. I think Lidstrom competed against and was in a league with every bit as good of a defensive pool as any other era. Who exactly did Bourque compete against for his Norris's? Is competing against the likes of Coffey, Chelios, Leetch, etc a drastic upgrade from Pronger, Niedermeyer, Chara, Keith, Blake etc? It's also hard to make "generational" arguments lessening Lidstrom's peers when his closest competition for #2 all time is Bourque, and their NHL careers overlapped for over a decade.

Lidstrom was so far and away ahead of his peers during his peak that his complete lack of a good-ol-boys defensive "physical" game (something Pronger, Stevens, and such got IMO quite overrated from having) completely changed the way the position is valued. I think Lidstrom, by virtue of his level of play and consistency, "lessened" the value of his peers in the same way Bourque probably did for the likes of Leetch, MacInnis, etc. Before Lidstrom, if you're not crushing bodies or leading the league in points, you weren't winning a Norris. For me, his play was so consistent, so efficient, so effective, and so sustained, that there is no defenseman I've ever seen play that I would take over him.

its easier to see the gems when they are surrounded by sand.
As a league gets better and deeper, there are more gems and it is much more difficult to pick the shiniest one out.
picking the best athlete at your highschool is easier than your college, and so forth.
If you look at a typical top 10 dmen ever list, as that poster provided, you will see that Lidstrom is the only one to have been prime in the 2000s. Bourque and chelios were great in the 90s, but Bourque made his mark in the 80s and Chelly in the early 90s. In 30 years of high paid, full world hockey, Lidstrom is the only guy on anyone’s top 10. I think that speaks volumes about the improvement of the overall product, and also of how impressive it was to win seven norrises in that period.

 

[The Nuge]

He’s fairly rated. Imo, he’s #2 all time, but as long as someone has him top 5, I think it’s within reason. Ahead of Orr is overrating him. Outside the top 5 is underrating him. But that doesn’t apply to most people

 

[Bruins4Lifer]

People put him ahead of Bourque, so I think he's slightly overrated. Bourque made 19 1st or 2nd All-Star Teams. Lidstrom made 12 with weaker competition.

 

[Regal]

its easier to see the gems when they are surrounded by sand.
As a league gets better and deeper, there are more gems and it is much more difficult to pick the shiniest one out.
picking the best athlete at your highschool is easier than your college, and so forth.
If you look at a typical top 10 dmen ever list, as that poster provided, you will see that Lidstrom is the only one to have been prime in the 2000s. Bourque and chelios were great in the 90s, but Bourque made his mark in the 80s and Chelly in the early 90s. In 30 years of high paid, full world hockey, Lidstrom is the only guy on anyone’s top 10. I think that speaks volumes about the improvement of the overall product, and also of how impressive it was to win seven norrises in that period.

Except Lidstrom's runners up were frequently players from the past era. 40 year old Bourque was the runner up in Lidstrom's first Norris win. 40 year old Chelios was runner up in Lidstrom's 2nd win. 39 year old MacInnis was runner up in his 3rd. So if the old guard was still the top competition for much of Lidstrom's career, where was all this new young talent that made it harder to stand out?

 

[Dingo]

Except Lidstrom's runners up were frequently players from the past era. 40 year old Bourque was the runner up in Lidstrom's first Norris win. 40 year old Chelios was runner up in Lidstrom's 2nd win. 39 year old MacInnis was runner up in his 3rd. So if the old guard was still the top competition for much of Lidstrom's career, where was all this new young talent that made it harder to stand out?

overlap
lidstrom took a long time in finding his game, and it took longer for people to see it.
those guys are still gems. they shone in their thirties, as i said originally, they were still great, but their true primes were earlier.

the guys who runner upped to Lidstrom after that arent inferior to old bourque or old chelios, nor the runner ups to those guys in their primes... what those runner ups dont have is several norrises, because its deeper now. i mean that Shea Weber, Keith, Chara actually are on the level of Stevens, maciniss, Leetch, but it doesnt look that way because they never stood out from the crowd the same way.

im rushing this, and off to work.... you made a great point and id like to think it over better.

 

[North Cole]

I think he is fairly rated as a top 5 D man. I think people that put him over Bourque overrate him, but there are some on the other that see him outside of the top 5 so it more or less evens out.

 

[Fixxer]

I chose the "very underrated" option, for a few reasons.

For those who have not seen him play, it's like he retired and has already been kinda forgotten.
For those who saw him play, although I can't say I saw a ton, although bits over his career, he is a super efficient guy who isn't a highlight reel kind of guy. His values was immeasurable. It's a team thing, but he made the playoffs every year he was with the team and his worst +/- was -2 in his second to last season. He'd like to shoot wide for teammates to catch up the rebound off the boards. Who does that? lol -- Preventing passes on a 2 on 1 in his end, a former player, which I forgot who, said how masterful he was at this.

He's kind of a quietly effective guy, who would also get 60 points a year and could be a PPG player on occasions. All these Norris and the HHOF are great recognition, but I feel like he's still underrated because he was not a flashy player and because his biggest asset are possibly his composure and hockey IQ.

 

[StarterHart]

Fairly rated. He's widely considered one of the best to ever play, and he was.

 

[DL44]

Lidstrom never put any effort in his skating.


EDIT...

My joke missed... I was thinking of the wrong attack add...

 

[DL44]

 

[Joe McGrath]

The only thing Lidstrom did right was be lucky enought to play his whole career with Detroit, who had elite hall of fame players or very good players that Lidstrom could leetch off of. If Lidtrom had played his whole career in Edmonton instead, he wouldn't have been half the player he is considered to be today...

This might be the worst post I’ve ever seen on this board which is quite the accomplishment. Bravo.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Lidstrom was about as reliable as you could ask but his last Norris was garbage.

 

[Mulletman]

This might be the worst post I’ve ever seen on this board which is quite the accomplishment. Bravo.

Dude Lidtrom was picked 53rd overall in the 1989 draft and he was the 19th defenseman taken overall: 1989 NHL Entry Draft - Wikipedia
The fact is Lidstrom could've ended up anywere and it was just pure luck he ended up in Detroit. Hell he was even the Red Wings 3rd pick that draft. And he wasn't even their first defenseman as the Red Wings selected defenseman Bob Boughner with the 32nd pick overall. And yeah it's that Bob Boughner who's the head coach of the San Jose Sharks right now! Imagine that! You might want to educate yourself before you try and make a dumbass comment like this.

Now if we want to speculate a bit we can see that Calgary picked the 18th defenseman with number 50th all time and that Chicago picked the 17th defenseman with the 48th pick overall. We also have Washington picking the 20th and 21st defenseman with the 59th and 61st picks overall. So if Lidstrom was rated in this bunch of players at the draft his most likely other destination would've been Calgary, Chicago or Washington.

Now if we say Lidstrom doesn't change anything he would probably have the most success in Washington at the end of his career getting to enjoy prime Ovechkin and also leetching off of prime Bondra earlier. Chicago would be pretty depressing for Lidstrom until the end when Kane, Toews, Keith and Hossa would win Lidstrom a cup. And Calgary would have been a pretty meh career for Lidstrom as well, but at least he would've had Iginla picking up assists for him. Plus Calgary fans will probably argue that Calgary wins their cup in 2003-04 with Lidstrom on their roster. Oh but wait, Lidstrom was absolutely terrible in 2003-04 as he had his worst season of his prime then. Now if Lidstrom was so amazing as most here say he is, it would probably lead to Chicago missing out on Kane and Washington missing out on Ovechkin if Lidstrom was there, so that would mean Lidstrom would just dig an even bigger hole for himself career wise...

 

[Joe McGrath]

Dude Lidtrom was picked 53rd overall in the 1989 draft and he was the 19th defenseman taken overall: 1989 NHL Entry Draft - Wikipedia
The fact is Lidstrom could've ended up anywere and it was just pure luck he ended up in Detroit. Hell he was even the Red Wings 3rd pick that draft. And he wasn't even their first defenseman as the Red Wings selected defenseman Bob Boughner with the 32nd pick overall. And yeah it's that Bob Boughner who's the head coach of the San Jose Sharks right now! Imagine that! You might want to educate yourself before you try and make a dumbass comment like this.

Now if we want to speculate a bit we can see that Calgary picked the 18th defenseman with number 50th all time and that Chicago picked the 17th defenseman with the 48th pick overall. We also have Washington picking the 20th and 21st defenseman with the 59th and 61st picks overall. So if Lidstrom was rated in this bunch of players at the draft his most likely other destination would've been Calgary, Chicago or Washington.

Now if we say Lidstrom doesn't change anything he would probably have the most success in Washington at the end of his career getting to enjoy prime Ovechkin and also leetching off of prime Bondra earlier. Chicago would be pretty depressing for Lidstrom until the end when Kane, Toews, Keith and Hossa would win Lidstrom a cup. And Calgary would have been a pretty meh career for Lidstrom as well, but at least he would've had Iginla picking up assists for him. Plus Calgary fans will probably argue that Calgary wins their cup in 2003-04 with Lidstrom on their roster. Oh but wait, Lidstrom was absolutely terrible in 2003-04 as he had his worst season of his prime then. Now if Lidstrom was so amazing as most here say he is, it would probably lead to Chicago missing out on Kane and Washington missing out on Ovechkin if Lidstrom was there, so that would mean Lidstrom would just dig an even bigger hole for himself career wise...

Are you suggesting his draft position disqualifies him from having a great career?

 

[BLNY]

How about neither? He's the best of his generation.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

He’s generally considered one of the 10 best to ever play the position, and that’s an accurate assessment.

Correctly rated.



….I will say, his final Norris was a joke.

He deserved two more earlier, instead of Blake and MaC.

 

[MichaelFarrell]

Best defenseman of all time.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I voted slightly underrated. I think an apt comparison is Gordie Howe. Obviously stylistically it's not even close, but in the sense of his incredible longevity of not just being a decent player at the beginning or ending of his career. Being a star the whole time, and for much of it, being transformative.

I know the Wings had a lot of offensive talent, but it doesn't seem like a coincidence to me that Detroit's vaunted playoff streak almost perfectly encapsulates Lidstrom's career. It's not an accident he never missed the playoffs in a 20 year career.

That said, I think he can credibly argued to be anywhere from 2-6. I probably tend to rank him fairly evenly with Ray Bourque, and I defer to those who saw Potvin and Harvey. My sense is Potvin may have a better case for 2nd, but I'm not sure. Between Bourque and Lidstrom I can lean either way.

 

[Sempiternal]

He is the best all-around defenseman of all-time. Dude was dynamite in his own zone despite not having Chris Pronger's size and he was as good as Brian Leetch offensively.

Perfect Defenseman.

 

[wintersej]

The only thing Lidstrom did right was be lucky enought to play his whole career with Detroit, who had elite hall of fame players or very good players that Lidstrom could leetch off of. If Lidtrom had played his whole career in Edmonton instead, he wouldn't have been half the player he is considered to be today...

I see what you did there

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Lidstrom has seven Norris trophies and three 2nd place finishes to go with it. He might be the most defensively sound dman to ever play the game and he still scored over 1,100 points with a career that ran right through the DPE (he only scored less than 10 goals in his career twice). He has four Stanley Cups and Conn Smythe. What weighs him down is the comparatively weak Norris competition he had during the time he was winning trophies. That's why he sits top-5.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Neither, he’s a hall of famer lol

So is Marian hossa

 

[Foppberg]

He's rated.

#3 - 5 all time.

 

[Bouboumaster]

4th best d-man of all time, behind Orr, Harvey and Bourque. I mean, he's rated ok