Is Muzzin and Rielly out equivalent to Matthews and Tavares out?

[A1LeafNation]

One could argue it's more significant as these two play more minutes and a more important position than the centers.

NHL.com Stats

Perhaps we are a good team and need to wait this thing out?

What are your thoughts on this?

Click to read more...

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Lots of truth is that statement. But we need more than Riels/Muzz. But we are close.

 

[Buds17]

Playing time is definitely a factor. There are more forwards (though not centres) than defencemen. I think there's also enough versatility within the forward group where a couple of wingers could at least move to the middle for a brief spell. The overall depth is possibly still better at forward than on the blueline in such a scenario too.

It's a close comparison. Thankfully, we haven't seen the latter in the title happen to have a better idea.

 

[LeafGrief]

Centre is the most important position in hockey. Defense is close, but the centres drive play more.

For that reason alone, I'd say that it's not quite the same as missing Matthews+Tavares, but I will agree that it's close. I'd say Tavares and Rielly are probably a wash this season (they're both struggling) but Matthews is way, way more important to the team than Muzzin is. Some of our forwards like Nylander and Kerfoot could fill in as top6 centres, but the defense doesn't have that luxury, which is why we're dealing with f***ing Marincin on a pairing with Barrie.

We desperately need Muzzin back. Get him back for next year too.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I think the only way to know for sure is if both Matthews and Tavares were out at the same time, since we are seeing that now with Rielly and Muzzin. Obviously that's a scenario no Leafs fans ever want to see, however logically I can't think of any other way to answer the question. Last season we saw Matthews miss some games due to injury, however Tavares was still playing and this season it was the opposite with Tavares missing some games due to injury and Matthews was still playing.

 

[Cams]

Rielly and Muzzin out could be more devastating for the simple fact that there is not as much quality blueline depth to step up and replace production which you could say could be the case up front.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Centre is the most important position in hockey. Defense is close, but the centres drive play more.

For that reason alone, I'd say that it's not quite the same as missing Matthews+Tavares, but I will agree that it's close. I'd say Tavares and Rielly are probably a wash this season (they're both struggling) but Matthews is way, way more important to the team than Muzzin is. Some of our forwards like Nylander and Kerfoot could fill in as top6 centres, but the defense doesn't have that luxury, which is why we're dealing with ****ing Marincin on a pairing with Barrie.

We desperately need Muzzin back. Get him back for next year too.

We could argue this til we are blue in the face. To me on any team the goalie is by far your most important guy. Then your shut down pair. Then your top 2 centres. Punch used to always say you needed 6 A plus guys to win a Cup in following order --- a goalie without question#1 when game on the line, a top tier get you outta trouble all the time D man, a horse of a d man who everyone feared, 2 centres who you could short double shift in 3rd who controlled the puck all game long and a sniper who scored when it counted for real.

 

[Gabriel426]

Good discussions.
Without JT and AM, the Cs will be Willie and Kerfoot or maybe Spezza. The drop off is big but I think the Leafs will still score, as they still have Willie, Marner, AJ, Kap, Kerfoot and Spezza. That’s still a solid Top 6.
While on Defence, the replacements for Muzzin and Reilly will be Dermott and Marincin or Sandin. I think Leafs will miss more when both Reilly and Muzzin are gone

 

[LeafsNation75]

Good discussions.
Without JT and AM, the Cs will be Willie and Kerfoot or maybe Spezza. The drop off is big but I think the Leafs will still score, as they still have Willie, Marner, AJ, Kap, Kerfoot and Spezza. That’s still a solid Top 6.
While on Defence, the replacements for Muzzin and Reilly will be Dermott and Marincin or Sandin. I think Leafs will miss more when both Reilly and Muzzin are gone

If Matthews and Tavares were both out at the same time what would that do their power play stats?

 

[TheProspector]

Probably worse.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

No.

 

[Suntouchable13]

No. They are no franchise D-men. JT and Matthews are franchise type talents. Big difference. Centres are more important than D men, IMO. We shouldn't use those injuries as an excuse. Leafs still have to play better team D with them or without them. I don't see a big difference in our defensive play without Muzz and Rielly. We were consistently lit up with them, so what? We are still giving up tons of goals, nothing has changed. Some of our forwards are clueless defensively.

 

[Gabriel426]

If Matthews and Tavares were both out at the same time what would that do their power play stats?

Having Marner, Willie, Spezza, Barrie and AJ/Kap/Kerfoot/Engvall or even Bracco could be interesting

 

[LeafsNation75]

Having Marner, Willie, Spezza, Barrie and AJ/Kap/Kerfoot/Engvall or even Bracco could be interesting

It very well could be. However if that means Matthews and Tavares are hurt, it's something I don't want to see actually happen.

 

[Gabriel426]

It very well could be. However if that means Matthews and Tavares are hurt, it's something I don't want to see actually happen.

I don’t think anyone want to see that

 

[Nithoniniel]

Hot take, d-men are a pretty overrated position. While a downgrade on the center position tends to have a huge impact on on-ice results, that's not really the case with d-men. With Rielly out, we lose:

- His ES performance (where he's basically Two-Face)
- His PP impact (which can adequately be replaced by Sandin)
- His PK impact (he shouldn't even play, and Marincin is probably better)

Given that our ES performance hasn't even been hurt that bad in his absence, his injury has had surprisingly little effect. Especially given the compounding effect of having Muzzin out too.

Matthews and Tavares not only play the more important position, they are also vastly superior players. This is a no contest. I honestly think we'd be hit harder without Marner and Nylander too, given the synergy effect of our top four forwards.

On that note, I wouldn't mind if we built a defense consisting of six d-men who play a low-key, reliable game with a solid outlet game. Should be relatively cheap and effective.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Simple answer is No

 

[tmlms13]

It is the equivalent to Muzzin and Rielly being out.

Fairly simple.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

One could argue it's more significant as these two play more minutes and a more important position than the centers.

NHL.com Stats

Perhaps we are a good team and need to wait this thing out?

What are your thoughts on this?

Great question and i will be very interested in reading the takes in this thread. They are a huge loss and Rielly playing injured most of the season was really visible.

Definitely has hurt. To me they are our two veterans and leaders and core players lost. I want Muzzin back next year to help our young guys grow on defense. Trade Barrie yesterday, I don’t care for him. Way to irresponsible on defense for me. Good guy sure!

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Simple answer is No

Well tell us who that is playing that has the same game effects in terms of quality of which Muzzin and Rielly then. It is a huge quality loss with them out

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Hot take, d-men are a pretty overrated position. While a downgrade on the center position tends to have a huge impact on on-ice results, that's not really the case with d-men. With Rielly out, we lose:

- His ES performance (where he's basically Two-Face)
- His PP impact (which can adequately be replaced by Sandin)
- His PK impact (he shouldn't even play, and Marincin is probably better)

Given that our ES performance hasn't even been hurt that bad in his absence, his injury has had surprisingly little effect. Especially given the compounding effect of having Muzzin out too.

Matthews and Tavares not only play the more important position, they are also vastly superior players. This is a no contest. I honestly think we'd be hit harder without Marner and Nylander too, given the synergy effect of our top four forwards.

On that note, I wouldn't mind if we built a defense consisting of six d-men who play a low-key, reliable game with a solid outlet game. Should be relatively cheap and effective.

So you convinced yourself we are equally as good with Muzzin and Rielly out! Wow, i see it differently!

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Well tell us who that is playing that has the same game effects in terms of quality of which Muzzin and Rielly then. It is a huge quality loss with them out

Edit: just want to say I can’t wait to see Sandin and Liljegren in the lineup full time with Morgs and Muzzy in the lineup. That was not meant to slight Sandin and Liljegren. I love both them. Can’t wait to see our best possible defense iced. Barrie and Ceci can go fly a kite

 

[Vaive50]

Centre is the most important position in hockey. Defense is close, but the centres drive play more.

For that reason alone, I'd say that it's not quite the same as missing Matthews+Tavares, but I will agree that it's close. I'd say Tavares and Rielly are probably a wash this season (they're both struggling) but Matthews is way, way more important to the team than Muzzin is. Some of our forwards like Nylander and Kerfoot could fill in as top6 centres, but the defense doesn't have that luxury, which is why we're dealing with ****ing Marincin on a pairing with Barrie.

We desperately need Muzzin back. Get him back for next year too.

Tavares has 41 points in 42 games (that's basically PPG) and he has been one of the NHL 3 stars of the week, if that is called struggling, then it's a good problem to have

 

[tmlms13]

Tavares has 41 points in 42 games (that's basically PPG) and he has been one of the NHL 3 stars of the week, if that is called struggling, then it's a good problem to have

For 11m he better be at minimum PPG.

 

[A1LeafNation]

For 11m he better be at minimum PPG.

Also, what's special being a ppg when you are on the ice for more GA 5on5.