Is Mika Zibanejad a top 10 C in the NHL?

[Goomba]

Zibanejad had 10 5v4 goals this year. Panarin assisted on 3 of them. Why are we making things up?

Remind me where I made something up

'Zibanejad isnt a PPG player without Panarin'

Show me the PPG season he had without Panarin

 

[Goomba]

Oh look, you don't know what you're talking about in another Ranger thread....they don't play on the same line and never have with any kind of regularity.

Remind me the PPG season Zibanejad had without Panarin

Ill wait, since you Rangers fans seem to be watching different games than the rest of the league

 

[Goomba]

Lmao at knowing absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. He doesnt play on the same long as him and never has at ES

Oh look, a third Ranger fan with poor comprehension skills!

point me to the PPG seasons Zibanejad has without Panarin. Third times a charm right?

Maybe you all should read posts a little more closely

 

[Goomba]

'Zibanejad doesnt play with Panarin'

really? Thats weird, they only have 250+ powerplay minutes together in two seasons.

Oh, right! The old adage of 'Panarin didnt assist on all his powerplay points idiot'. Of course, howd I forget. Being on the same powerplay as one of the games best certainly has no affect on the other four, when he doesnt assist.

Mika Zibanejad isnt a top-10 center. Keep asking for three more years though, maybe he will become one once Panarin wins a scoring rac.. er, when the Rangers get Eichel.

 

[SA16]

Remind me where I made something up

'Zibanejad isnt a PPG player without Panarin'

Show me the PPG season he had without Panarin

Ok I will be fair. I read PPG as "Power play goal" not "Point per game." However, your point still does not make any sense as they do not play on the same line together and have not since like the 6th game of Panarin's first year.

No surprise that the person with a join rate of "Friday" is a troll and probably a previously banned user.

 

[Goomba]

he's hovering around that 10 spot. there aren't 10 who are definitively better

Pretty easily there are, actually

McDavid
MacKinnon
Crosby
Malkin
Aho
Barkov
Barzal
Couturier
Backstrom
Kopitar
Eichel
Matthews
Draisaitl
Bergeron
O'Reilly
Point
a healthy Stamkos

and thats off the top of the head. Didnt even count.

 

[Goomba]

Ok I will be fair. I read PPG as "Power play goal" not "Point per game." However, your point still does not make any sense as they do not play on the same line together and have not since like the 6th game of Panarin's first year.

No surprise that the person with a join rate of "Friday" is a troll and probably a previously banned user.

So youll casually ignore the 250+ PP minutes together right?

yeah, im the troll. Surely not the people thinking Zibanejad 'is easily near the ten spot' when he isnt even top-15 and its pretty obvious

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Pretty easily there are, actually

McDavid
MacKinnon
Crosby
Malkin
Aho
Barkov
Barzal
Couturier
Backstrom
Kopitar
Eichel
Matthews
Draisaitl
Bergeron
O'Reilly
Point
a healthy Stamkos

and thats off the top of the head. Didnt even count.

Ok

 

[Ben White]

Even if that season is an outlier, which is flawed without context, how is T11 in points, T6 in goals not close to a top 10 center?

He’s clearly above ppg this season if we discount his covid riddled start. That’s his true level now and last season.

 

[Goomba]

Ok

A top-30 C is always most likely to be a 1C, so idk why it bothers people that Zibanejad isnt considered one of the best.

He does really well for the Rangers and, if they can fix some holes, is good enough to win a Cup with as your 1C.

If he contributed more defensively then hed be up there

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

A top-30 C is always most likely to be a 1C, so idk why it bothers people that Zibanejad isnt considered one of the best.

He does really well for the Rangers and, if they can fix some holes, is good enough to win a Cup with as your 1C.

If he contributed more defensively then hed be up there

Zibanejad is really underrated defensively. I’d consider him the Rangers second best defensive forward.

 

[Goomba]

Also this needs to be addressed

Zibanejad is, quite possibly, the most inconsistent 1C in the league for a guy who scores near PPG or above it.

For example, this season he went an astounding 28 of 56 games without a point. Thats HALF OF THE SEASON.

His point totals were severely inflated by two blowout Philly games where he tallied twelve.

in 18-19, his 70+ season without Panarin on the PP, he went 37 games pointless out of 82, close to almost half.

Though In 2019-2020, his shooting % was near 20% but he scored more consistently, only leaving 17 games out of 57 without a point. This likely correlated to him scoring every fifth shot however.

for comparison to centers around him in points, Kopitar went 19 out of 54, Pavelski went 23 out of 56, and even his teammate Strome went 25 out of 56.

Zibanejad's two best seasons outside shooting 20%, he doesnt score in nearly half of his games

 

[Goomba]

Zibanejad is really underrated defensively. I’d consider him the Rangers second best defensive forward.

Hes certainly not poor defensively, and Id put him slightly above average. Though Id have Kakko as the Rangers soon to be best defensive forward

His defense isnt at a level to be competing with the likes of OReilly, Bergeron, and Couturier who are all incredible point producers, defensively, and in the dots

 

[Foppberg]

No.

McDavid
MacKinnon
Bergeron
Eichel
Barkov
Sid/Geno
Matthews
Barzal
Draisaitl
Kopi

Then maybe guys like ROR & Couts

I love Zib and when he's hot he's red hot, but when he's cold he's ice cold.

 

[Ben White]

Also this needs to be addressed

Zibanejad is, quite possibly, the most inconsistent 1C in the league for a guy who scores near PPG or above it.

For example, this season he went an astounding 28 of 56 games without a point. Thats HALF OF THE SEASON.

His point totals were severely inflated by two blowout Philly games where he tallied twelve.

in 18-19, his 70+ season without Panarin on the PP, he went 37 games pointless out of 82, close to almost half.

Though In 2019-2020, his shooting % was near 20% but he scored more consistently, only leaving 17 games out of 57 without a point. This likely correlated to him scoring every fifth shot however.

for comparison to centers around him in points, Kopitar went 19 out of 54, Pavelski went 23 out of 56, and even his teammate Strome went 25 out of 56.

Zibanejad's two best seasons outside shooting 20%, he doesnt score in nearly half of his games

that was due to Covid dammit

 

[Goomba]

that was due to Covid dammit

He did the exact same thing in 18-19, covid wasnt around then.

hes an inconsistent player who relies on the powerplay and high shooting %s through short periods of time

 

[Breakers]

Zibby is better than ROR and Aho

that’s the problem you have with that list?

not Tavares in the top 10. Who is maybe around 19 or 20

 

[Honest M]

I would rate top five like below and then Zib is in the conversation for the following group with Point Barkov Kopitar Backstrom aso..

Connor McDavid
Leon Draisaitl
Auston Matthews
Nathan MacKinnon
Sidney Crosby

 

[Xspyrit]

Remind me the PPG season Zibanejad had without Panarin

Ill wait, since you Rangers fans seem to be watching different games than the rest of the league

In 2018-19, Zibanejad reached a new level in his career with 30 goals and 44 assists (74 pts) in 82 games. Note that he is also a defensive center, used in defensive situations and on the PK. He is really far from an one-dimensionnal offensive player. 74 in 82 is pretty close to PPG and Panarin was still in Columbus...

Now for 2019-20 and 2020-21, a pretty good tool to find the line combinations (if you can't watch enough games to know basic stuff like this)

Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

As you can see, didn't play much with Panarin at ES. Only 13 of his 43 (30%) ES pts were with Panarin on the ice (so it doesn't mean that Panarin made a big play for the goal to happen). Maybe 1 or 2 more pts as the tool doesn't show all the combinations for some reason.

Same thing for 2020-21, even less time at ES together. Only 8 of his 32 (25%) ES Pts came with Panarin on the ice.

Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

Yes, obviously he has been playing on the PP with Panarin. Which team in its right mind wouldn't play their best players on the same PP unit? The objective is to score goals and that's what they do. This is a very ridiculous argument, Zibanejad isn't a "pure product" of Panarin. Like as ridiculous and ignorant as "show me a Draisaitl PPG season without McDavid!"

 

[Goomba]

In 2018-19, Zibanejad reached a new level in his career with 30 goals and 44 assists (74 pts) in 82 games. Note that he is also a defensive center, used in defensive situations and on the PK. He is really far from an one-dimensionnal offensive player. 74 in 82 is pretty close to PPG and Panarin was still in Columbus...

Now for 2019-20 and 2020-21, a pretty good tool to find the line combinations (if you can't watch enough games to know basic stuff like this)

Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

As you can see, didn't play much with Panarin at ES. Only 13 of his 43 (30%) ES pts were with Panarin on the ice (so it doesn't mean that Panarin made a big play for the goal to happen). Maybe 1 or 2 more pts as the tool doesn't show all the combinations for some reason.

Same thing for 2020-21, even less time at ES together. Only 8 of his 32 (25%) ES Pts came with Panarin on the ice.

Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

Yes, obviously he has been playing on the PP with Panarin. Which team in its right mind wouldn't play their best players on the same PP unit? The objective is to score goals and that's what they do. This is a very ridiculous argument, Zibanejad isn't a "pure product" of Panarin. Like as ridiculous and ignorant as "show me a Draisaitl PPG season without McDavid!"

Zibanejad conversations get my blood going strictly because of my friends being Rangera fans and them harping over the 'hes a top-10 center' thing

Im never claiming Zibanejad is a product of Panarin or even hes not a 1C; my argument is strictly about his top-10 status and how it isnt so and wont ever be.

Hes a product of extreme ups and downs; he goes from scoring nothing in twelve straight to twelve points in three games. This also ties in to his PP production and, if it isnt on, he isnt on.

Take out the two Flyers games this year and he only had 38 in 54. No, those games arent invalid or anything but when trying to establish whats realistic for future replication, you cant include twelve points in two games. 6PPG isnt realistically copied lol.

covid hit him hard but the inconsistency, as I marked above, is strikingly bad week to week. I simply cant pick that type of player as a top-10 center, when across his three best seasons (including shooting near 20% in 19-20) he goes scoreless in just about 40% of his games.

edit: also id like to add that, while he isnt poor defensively, he also isnt strong defensively and thats a huge factor when comparing him to other top-20 centers who can produce like him yet also are great in the dot and in the other two zones. So names like Bergeron Couturier Barkov and O'Reilly go above him, even if he out produces them some seasons. For a team that scores as much as the Rangers do, Zibanejad has never been above a +/- of 10

 

[Xspyrit]

Zibanejad conversations get my blood going strictly because of my friends being Rangera fans and them harping over the 'hes a top-10 center' thing

Im never claiming Zibanejad is a product of Panarin or even hes not a 1C; my argument is strictly about his top-10 status and how it isnt so and wont ever be.

Hes a product of extreme ups and downs; he goes from scoring nothing in twelve straight to twelve points in three games. This also ties in to his PP production and, if it isnt on, he isnt on.

Take out the two Flyers games this year and he only had 38 in 54. No, those games arent invalid or anything but when trying to establish whats realistic for future replication, you cant include twelve points in two games. 6PPG isnt realistically copied lol.

covid hit him hard but the inconsistency, as I marked above, is strikingly bad week to week. I simply cant pick that type of player as a top-10 center, when across his three best seasons (including shooting near 20% in 19-20) he goes scoreless in just about 40% of his games.

edit: also id like to add that, while he isnt poor defensively, he also isnt strong defensively and thats a huge factor when comparing him to other top-20 centers who can produce like him yet also are great in the dot and in the other two zones. So names like Bergeron Couturier Barkov and O'Reilly go above him, even if he out produces them some seasons. For a team that scores as much as the Rangers do, Zibanejad has never been above a +/- of 10

Whatever the reason, personally I don't care because I'm very rational. I like facts more than anything for this type of life sphere.

All the best offensive players in the league get a lot of their production on the PP, and they play with other good/great players. It's nothing out of the ordinary, this argument doesn't mean anything

Say what you want, Panarin or not, Zibanejad is 10th in Pts among centers since 2018-19. and including all positions, only 17 players have outscored him during that period...

NHL Stats


I'm not saying "he is clearly a top-10 center", but he should at the very least be in the conversation for "barely missing out"

 

[Goomba]

Whatever the reason, personally I don't care because I'm very rational. I like facts more than anything for this type of life sphere.

All the best offensive players in the league get a lot of their production on the PP, and they play with other good/great players. It's nothing out of the ordinary, this argument doesn't mean anything

Say what you want, Panarin or not, Zibanejad is 10th in Pts among centers since 2018-19. and including all positions, only 17 players have outscored him during that period...

NHL Stats


I'm not saying "he is clearly a top-10 center", but he should at the very least be in the conversation for "barely missing out"

I dont think hes barely missing out

McDavid
MacKinnon
Crosby
Malkin
Aho
Barkov
Barzal
Couturier
Backstrom
Kopitar
Matthews
Draisaitl
Bergeron
O'Reilly


i removed Eichel and Point but think, when Eichel in an actual position to succeed, his offense skyrockets again. And Point is a baller but I could see the argument I made, against him

 

[Xspyrit]

I dont think hes barely missing out

McDavid
MacKinnon
Crosby
Malkin
Aho
Barkov
Barzal
Couturier
Backstrom
Kopitar
Matthews
Draisaitl
Bergeron
O'Reilly


i removed Eichel and Point but think, when Eichel in an actual position to succeed, his offense skyrockets again. And Point is a baller but I could see the argument I made, against him

Kopitar and Backstrom are soon turning 34 y/o... they could still be good for years but it wouldn't be surprising to see them decline a bit, which we already saw in Kopitar's case. Bergeron turns 36 this summer. Malkin is turning 35 and has shown to be slowing down. O'Reilly is over 30 and don't always put up great offensive seasons. How much % of his shifts does Draisaitl plays as a center? etc

Zibanejad has entered his prime just 2 years ago. I think that's why people might vote him ahead. These polls are not for the past. but more for the present going forward. We look at what these players have done and what we expect them to do in the near future...

So yes there is certainly 10 guys in there that are clearly better but don't be surprised if a lot of people tell you that he's in the next tier.

 

[Goomba]

Kopitar and Backstrom are soon turning 34 y/o... they could still be good for years but it wouldn't be surprising to see them decline a bit, which we already saw in Kopitar's case. Bergeron turns 36 this summer. Malkin is turning 35 and has shown to be slowing down. O'Reilly is over 30 and don't always put up great offensive seasons. How much % of his shifts does Draisaitl plays as a center? etc

Zibanejad has entered his prime just 2 years ago. I think that's why people might vote him ahead. These people are not for the past. but more for the present going forward. We look at what these players have done and what we expect them to do in the near future...

So yes there is certainly 10 guys in there that are clearly better but don't be surprised if a lot of people tell you that he's in the next tier.

Prime offensive years are usually before 28 years old. Though Im interested to see if hat number changes as the sport becomes faster.