Belfast Giants said:I've read this all and still I put Mess in my top 5-6. Leadership, passion, physical ability, scoring ability, passing, and success. All equate to more than any other player ever in the game. Some players have had leadership without scoring ability, others scoring ability without physical side, some have had scoring and leadership but not a lot of passion. Messier had it all in abundance. 6 cups as well as his individual stats inc. 2nd all-time in points says it all to me.
Legend.
bigjags said:Good post.
Richard? Beliveau? Lafleur? Harvey? Those guys aren't better than the Moose, not a chance. I think you've watched one to many old timer games and have gotten all horny over them. Those are old vets everyone loves, but the Moose did it all.
I can't help but laugh when I see people posting guys like that. Guys they've never seen play a game, but they know is better than Mark. Eddie Shore? Sawchuck? lol Those guys played in teh 1920s.
bigjags said:Good post.
Richard? Beliveau? Lafleur? Harvey? Those guys aren't better than the Moose, not a chance. I think you've watched one to many old timer games and have gotten all horny over them. Those are old vets everyone loves, but the Moose did it all.
I can't help but laugh when I see people posting guys like that. Guys they've never seen play a game, but they know is better than Mark. Eddie Shore? Sawchuck? lol Those guys played in teh 1920s.
bigjags said:Good post.
Richard? Beliveau? Lafleur? Harvey? Those guys aren't better than the Moose, not a chance. I think you've watched one to many old timer games and have gotten all horny over them. Those are old vets everyone loves, but the Moose did it all.
I can't help but laugh when I see people posting guys like that. Guys they've never seen play a game, but they know is better than Mark. Eddie Shore? Sawchuck? lol Those guys played in teh 1920s.
Habdul said:Besides, don't get all horny on Messier...he may actually take you up on it.
Belfast Giants said:Messier, next to maybe Howe was the most well rounded player ever to play the game.
People tend to be very nostalgic, 'The good old days when men where men and sheep where scared', watching the world though the black and white specs, and the sports men then where better than those of today. In 20-30 years time people will praise Messier the way they are praising the guys of yester year that are all aparantly better.
Fast forward to 2030 (if crosby plays to Marks age he'll only be retiring), and allowing for any great players to come along between now and then, people, even those not raiting him to highly here, will remember Messier a lot more fondly than they are now because he'll be one from the 'good old days' by then.
Belfast Giants said:Fast forward to 2030 (if crosby plays to Marks age he'll only be retiring), and allowing for any great players to come along between now and then, people, even those not raiting him to highly here, will remember Messier a lot more fondly than they are now because he'll be one from the 'good old days' by then.
The Albino said:Or he'll be laughed at for "playing in the 80s." Don't you see the irony of saying Messier will finally get his due in the year 2030 when guys like Richard and Shore are being laughed at when compared to Messier?
bigjags said:I couldn't agree more.
People talk of the Rocket like he was a god. He was a hockey player who scored 50 goals in 50 games. He didn't cure canceer. He was good, but I think people's perception of him is distorted because he played in the days where men where men and women didn't vote.
Belfast Giants said:They are not being laughed at hence my post. Most people are ranking a lot of them ahead of Messier through what seems to be a case of nostalgia. Now dont get me wrong, everyone has an opinion and that is fair enough and nor am I saying or 'laughing' at players like Richard and Shore, they are legends of the game.
bigjags said:Eddie Shore? Sawchuck? lol Those guys played in teh 1920s.
bigjags said:Richard? Beliveau? Lafleur? Harvey? Those guys aren't better than the Moose, not a chance.
The Albino said:Considering women got to vote in most of Canada in 1918, in the US in 1920, and Quebec was the final province to enact it in 1940, Richard never played a game in the NHL when women couldn't vote.
What that has to do with him not being as good as Messier is beyond me, but just to clear things up.
bigjags said:It was a joke, just like your Riberio there. You're either young (like 15) or dumb.
The Albino said:I know it was used to make a point, although your point is so flawed I thought it appropriate to point out that not only do you have no grasp of hockey history, your knowledge of suffrage is also pathetic.
Secondly, great shot at me with the Ribeiro comment. Except, I'm not a fan of Ribeiro. I found his appearance in the pic funny, and actually telling of his attitude towards the game. It's a joke, in other words. "You're either young (like 15) or dumb."
Thirdly, I'm 21, but my age is irrelevant. According to your profile, you're a Rangers fan. And Messier is apparently better than "Richard, Beliveau, Lafleur, Harvey, Shore and Sawchuk." I'd make a comment about YOUR age, but that's also irrelevant.
bigjags said:Messier flat out hammers those old tools.
bigjags said:lol that's funny..
But get real when people bring up Eddie Shore. That is strictey hear say. We can't really compare those types to the Moose.
And why do people on these boards go into a fit and call people closeminded if they dont' agree, Loadie? Don't tell me to watch the game, my family has seasons tickets and I've played hockey since I was kid.
The Albino said:Game. Set. Match. It was fun debating with you but you clearly defeated me. I tip my hat to you.
Now you can sit back, open up a nice bag of Lays potato chips, and ponder if you should shave your head again because it's not up to Moose-standards.
Patrick Roy should be thrown in there, possibly right before Sawchuk. Everyone after 6 though is in the same bracket, the greats who didn't transcend the game. The top 5, whatever order you give it, is set in stone IMO.
bigjags said:Good post.
Richard? Beliveau? Lafleur? Harvey? Those guys aren't better than the Moose, not a chance. I think you've watched one to many old timer games and have gotten all horny over them. Those are old vets everyone loves, but the Moose did it all.
I can't help but laugh when I see people posting guys like that. Guys they've never seen play a game, but they know is better than Mark. Eddie Shore? Sawchuck? lol Those guys played in teh 1920s.
The Albino said:Game. Set. Match. It was fun debating with you but you clearly defeated me. I tip my hat to you.
Now you can sit back, open up a nice bag of Lays potato chips, and ponder if you should shave your head again because it's not up to Moose-standards.
As for my opinion on where Messier ranks, which I just realized I never gave because I was too busy defending people whose merits should speak for themselves, I agree with where he was placed in The Hockey News' list from 98 but not really on the order.
IMO
1. Orr
2. Gretzky
3. Lemieux
4. Howe
5. Richard
6. Beliveau
7. Sawchuk
8. Harvey
9. Shore
10. Hull
11. Messier
12. Lafleur
Patrick Roy should be thrown in there, possibly right before Sawchuk. Everyone after 6 though is in the same bracket, the greats who didn't transcend the game. The top 5, whatever order you give it, is set in stone IMO.
Crosbyfan said:Except Beliveau was better all around than Richard. Just nobody can fathom that the Rocket wasn't the best Canadien ever. 50 in 50 in 1944 had a lot to do with the war but the legend had started and Richard's clutch goal scoring, quiet but fiery leadership, and the Richard Riot kept it going.
felixd said:No love for Bossy?
I think he was the purest goal scorer ever
felixd said:No love for Bossy?
I think he was the purest goal scorer ever