Is Messier a top-5 All-Time player?

[VanIslander]

I don't believe in comparing centres and defensemen and goaltenders all on the same list.

Messier is a Top-5 centre all time, DEFINITELY a Top-5 TWO-WAY centre... my gawd, many so-called offensively-talented greats did squat defensively away from the puck. Messier did everything very well, yes, everything. At least for the first 15 years of his career

 

[PRB]

I'm not sure about top 5 but he's in my top 10 for sure maybe 7th or 8th. The fact that he's 2nd all time in points says something about his offensive ability, also the fact he could play physical and agressive as well as lead be an influence. Not many players where as well rounded as him.

 

[AGraveOne]

So for me Messier is about 9th overall ever, for you he's about 6th overall ever, for another poster he's about 25th ever...it's all subjective anyway, there is no definitive list. Some people argue Lemieux over Gretzky, some people argue Orr over Gretzky, and I've definitely heard great arguments here in Quebec for putting Richard as 1 overall. Kind of a moot point

Ultimately you are right on. I'll admit to my lack of knowledge of the greats of old. Regardless, Messier is in the elite group - that group where none are better than the others, where everyone has something that makes them a source of greatness and not just a reflection. Messier's is a skill and talent that can't be measured in numbers or awards. He always did what needed to be done.

Even the easy skills to measure are hard to compare...

That is my peace.

 

[Kardi]

Gretzky
Messier
Lemieux

 

[BM67]

THN had him at #12 on their list in '97. He's done nothing to move himself up since then. In fact he's probably moved down, if anything.

His being #2 on the all-time scoring list is a product of when he played and how long, not his offensive talent. He isn't even in the top 3 offensive centers of his era, let alone of all-time.

I might put him in the top 5 of "complete" players.

 

[Jo]

Not even close.

Lemieux
Gretzky
Orr
Roy
Lafleur

 

[Biggest Canuck Fan]

I might put him in the top 5 of "complete" players.

I think we can all agree that the potential is there but the above statement is the most accurate. He is probably one of if not the most complete player to ever play the game, and thus is far superior to Wayne and Mario in that respect.

I personally believe he is right behind Wayne, Bobby, Gordie, Mario, and PAtrick putting him 6th all time. If I had to pick a player in his prime to help my team win a cup, Messier would be my first choice cause unlike some of the other players, Moose went out and took care of business.

How many players defined, by themselves the role of the powerforward? Before Messier none of them.

For Messier to be considered top 5, only 2 stats really matter... 2nd in points all time, and most importantly captaining 2 teams to stanley cup titles. No player in NHL history has ever doen this...


NEVER BEFORE OR AFTER!!! Howe hasn't, neither has Hull, or Gretzky. No one has.

Those alone merit consideration for top 5 status. If you don't think so then you haven't got a clue.

 

[cassius]

I don't think Messier cracks top 10 all time. He was a hardnosed player and had good leadership qualities, but he has nowhere near the talent of greats like Mario, Gretzky, and Orr. These guys transcended the game, whereas Messier was just very good at playing the game.

 

[Macman]

He's easily Top 10, and arguably Top 5 in my books. He could do it all. Skate like the wind, score, intimidate, lead and win. I have to believe the people who say he's barely in the Top 30 never saw him play in his prime. I put him ahead of Espo, Lafleur and especially Richard.

 

[jaywills1020]

You just haven't researched hockey history.

Wayne Gretzky
Gordie Howe
Bobby Orr
Mario Lemieux
Maurice "Rocket" Richard
Eddie Shore
Bobby Hull
Jean Believeau
Ray Bourque
Doug Harvey
Phil Esposito
Stan Mikita
Cy Denneny
Howie Morenz
Jaromir Jagr
Guy Lafleur
Bill Cowley
Cecil " Babe" Dye


These 18 players all had greater careers than Messier so he is #19.

whatever your smoking send some my way. how can you even mention jagrs name with messier? let alone some of those other guys. bottom line 6 CUPS, 2nd ALL TIME points. nuff said.

 

[AGraveOne]

greatest player does not mean greatest skills.

If so then, Kovalev should be in the top 20.

Impact in the sport (not media...but on the ice) - that is what makes a player GREAT.

 

[TORRUS]

Since all the lists left out many european players I'll continue thinking that the question was ''Is Messier a top 5 all time Canadian player?'' If not your lists need some serious reconstructions...

 

[oil4life97]

One thing is for certain for me anyway, and that is that is Mark Messier is the best leader of all time. He was the ultimate team captain. So saying that I would have to put Messier into my top 5.

Gretz
Mario
Orr
Messier
Roy
Howe

What did Messier do after Gretzky in Edmonton. Led the Oil to another cup and one in New York. Gretz took LA to the finals but no cup. Some people talk like Messier had so much success in Edmonton because of Gretz. The truth of the matter is that Mark Messier was a huge reason why the Oilers won 5 cups in 7 years. Some of Gretzkys success has come on the backs of guys like Messier Anderson Kurri Coffey. Gretzky wasn't the only awesome player on that team.

 

[Slats432]

Funny. There was a time in Edmonton that if you had to pick either or to help you win a championship half would pick Messier, half would pick Gretzky.

How do you measure all time? If you had to give me one player in hockey that when it comes down to having in his prime and you had to build your team around them to win a championship, Messier would be one of those guys.

If you want top 5 in skill, nope, not Mess.
If you want top 5 in innovation to the game, nope not Mess.

But if you want a warrior and your goal is to go 82 then win 16 more...then Messier is in your top 5. Only if you want to win cups that is.

 

[supreme_reverend]

Being a huge Oilers fan and a huge Messier fan, I must say NO!

People who say Messier is a top 5 player all time simply do not have much knowledge of the history of the NHL.

Messier shakes out around 20-30 in the rankings.

Maybe not top 5 but 20-30 thats just crazy.

 

[Hawerchuk10]

Maybe not top 5 but in the top 10 for sure. Great player.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

top 15 is a good spot for him. he simply wasn't as dominant as a guy like lafleur, richard, or bossy. when i think messier, i think complete player, good leader. i don't think dominant. the top tier should be reserved for dominant players.

 

[Habsaku]

When I listen to old time folks talk about Jean Beliveau, I have a hard time believing anyone would put Messier above him. Its tough to argue against 10 stanley cups.

 

[PRB]

I'm not doubting Gretzky being the best, but its interesting when people say Gretzky led the Oilers to the cups and Mess won 4 cups that way but the first cup they won it was Messier who got playoff MVP. When Gretzky was checked tight then he was stuck, Messier could hit you back and battle out of it. When Gretzky left Edmonton he didn't win another cup, Messier kept Edmonton winning and then went to NY and got them winning.

I dont believe anyone can individually carry a team to a cup but many can come close. Gretzky was a scoring sensation but I dont think he could carry a team to a cup, on the other hand I think Messier could.

 

[norrisnick]

why was howe considered so good. the only reason he scored so many points was because he played so many seasons. Esposito outscored him regularly.

6 Harts, 6 Art Ross trophies might have something to do with it. Espo has what? 2 Harts and 5 Art Ross trophies? Not to mention that by the time Phil joined the NHL Gordie was 35 and had already played 17 seasons. Plus Phil didn't outscore Gordie until Howe was 40. I guess that's something to hang your hat on.

 

[AGraveOne]

Funny. There was a time in Edmonton that if you had to pick either or to help you win a championship half would pick Messier, half would pick Gretzky.

How do you measure all time? If you had to give me one player in hockey that when it comes down to having in his prime and you had to build your team around them to win a championship, Messier would be one of those guys.

If you want top 5 in skill, nope, not Mess.
If you want top 5 in innovation to the game, nope not Mess.

But if you want a warrior and your goal is to go 82 then win 16 more...then Messier is in your top 5. Only if you want to win cups that is.

right on!

 

[Ogopogo*]

why was howe considered so good. the only reason he scored so many points was because he played so many seasons. Esposito outscored him regularly. I think Orr is 2nd best judging by his stats.

my top 3 are

Gretzky
Orr
Lemieux

You need to do a lot of reading. Howe was unbelievably dominant. The most dominant player ever until Wayne came along.

 

[Ogopogo*]

Even if they are amazing players, I don't see them close to Messier ... and I think no one will argue that.

Obviously you have no idea what those players accomplished in their careers.

 

[Ogopogo*]

LOL Jaromir Jagr, Cy Denneny, Cecil Dye, Bill Cowley, and Guy Lafleur have not had better careers than Messier's 6 Stanley cups, 2 Hart trophies, Conn Smythe trophy, and 2nd most carreer points.

Hah, Cy Denneny a better career than Messier...

Yes, those players did have better careers than Messier did.

Do some research and find out for yourself. Just because YOU have never heard of a player that does not mean he wasn't great.

 

[God Bless Canada]

I will agree that there are many fans that need to research some of the NHL's history. However, I will say it again: ask NHL players which career they would rather have, or whose career was better - Jagr vs. Messier - and most of them, if not all of them, will take Messier.

Even if the number of Cups is the same, I'll still take Messier's career over Jagr. Better all-round player and a Conn Smythe Trophy.