Is McDavid doomed to be the next Marcel Dionne?

[Soundwave]

Are the Flyers doomed to overtake the Leafs Cup drought?

Is Giroux doomed to be stomped by Crosby and Malkin for the duration of his career?

Tune in next time folks.

Actually I think Claude Giroux might be a more apt comparable for Marcel Dionne, lol.

 

[Zuluss]

Ummmmm Dionne has 731 career goals and almost 2000 points LOL

He just happened to play when 99 owned the league

One can only dream of having half the career Marcel Dionne had

My goodness people

Yes, Dionne played in a very high-scoring era and peaked when the talent was diluted because of WHA existence.

No, Gretzky has little to do with the lack of Dionne's trophies, when Gretzky won his first Art Ross, Dionne was already 29 and never finished in top3 in points afterwards. Dionne lost two Art Rosses to Lafleur and Trottier, and only one to Gretzky.

 

[Soundwave]

Yes, Dionne played in a very high-scoring era and peaked when the talent was diluted because of WHA existence.

No, Gretzky has little to do with the lack of Dionne's trophies, when Gretzky won his first Art Ross, Dionne was already 29 and never finished in top3 in points afterwards. Dionne lost two Art Rosses to Lafleur and Trottier, and only one to Gretzky.

So basically Dionne is more like say ... Claude Giroux.

 

[BlueBaron]

Cups are hard to win so it's no knock on McD if he doesn't. The Oilers also lack depth, draft poorly and have 2 players eating a 1/4 of their cap, after it goes up.

I look at their roster and I can't really tell how many of their guys are part of the solution. Their 26 million dollar centre is fine but too expensive for one position. Their D are generally well priced except for Russell. Is their goalie the guy we saw this year or last year? Their wings make me ill.

Could go either way.

 

[Alexei Yashvalev]

If McDavid wins something relatively soon that would be unfortunate because it would mean Milan Lucic would win something again.

No one deserves to win less than Lucic.

 

[Soundwave]

Pack it up Connor. Everyone knows it's all over after age 21 and some tough ye ...

Oh wait ... right.

 

[Zuluss]

You skirted the question, it was about Cups not Art Ross awards and Harts...Dionne is one of the NHL's most historical point producers and even with his talent could not win a cup because of bad management...McDavid seems to be in the same conundrum.

You asked whether McDavid will be the next Dionne.
Apparently not, because he is well on pace to finishing with way more hardware.
Most likely, he will scoop up enough of it so cups will be irrelevant, at least when comparing him to Dionne or Dionne's equals.

 

[DanM]

Yes, Dionne played in a very high-scoring era and peaked when the talent was diluted because of WHA existence.

No, Gretzky has little to do with the lack of Dionne's trophies, when Gretzky won his first Art Ross, Dionne was already 29 and never finished in top3 in points afterwards. Dionne lost two Art Rosses to Lafleur and Trottier, and only one to Gretzky.

Thats Fair, I just really think people don't realize how great Dionne was.

He did have a lot of great players in the league at the same time, I am amazed he didn't win more hardware.

The Oilers need to fix things for sure, I know the poor fans want a winner as well, they have had some great playoff crowds throughout the years.

If they don't fix things, Mcdavid would be gone I would think, he craves winning.

 

[VainGretzky]

Shouldn't this thread be about Ovechkin even though I think this will be the Caps year to come out of the east , and win it all if Preds get knocked out before final. Anyways very stupid passive aggresive troll thread IMO

 

[Zuluss]

So basically Dionne is more like say ... Claude Giroux.

No, he was much better. He was like a lesser Jagr, at least production-wise. The difference was enough to leave him with little hardware (and then the overlap with peak Lafleur and Trottier's signature season was unfortunate, and then young Bossy took two of his potential goal-scoring titles). Dionne was pretty consistent and was very good for very long, he just could not put together these 1-2 peak seasons.

 

[BlueBaron]

You asked whether McDavid will be the next Dionne.
Apparently not, because he is well on pace to finishing with way more hardware.
Most likely, he will scoop up enough of it so cups will be irrelevant, at least when comparing him to Dionne or Dionne's equals.

So if I run a 100m race against a guy and come in at 9.5 seconds losing to a guy who came in at 9.2 I am some how worse than a guy who wins a race at 9.6?

Hardware doesn't in and of itself tell the whole story, you have to take it in to context.

 

[Soundwave]

No, he was much better. He was like a lesser Jagr, at least production-wise. The difference was enough to leave him with little hardware (and then the overlap with peak Lafleur and Trottier's signature season was unfortunate, and then young Bossy took two of his potential goal-scoring titles). Dionne was pretty consistent and was very good for very long, he just could not put together these 1-2 peak seasons.

I know I'm just having fun.

Actually there are a lot of Dionne-Giroux comparables ... both really good, smaller centers (check), French Canadian players (check), but guys who never were really counted in that higher tier of superstar (check), neither is likely to have a Stanley Cup (check).

 

[Laveuglette]

No, he was much better. He was like a lesser Jagr, at least production-wise. The difference was enough to leave him with little hardware (and then the overlap with peak Lafleur and Trottier's signature season was unfortunate, and then young Bossy took two of his potential goal-scoring titles). Dionne was pretty consistent and was very good for very long, he just could not put together these 1-2 peak seasons.

His style was very different from Jagr, though. Dionne was a midget, the opposite of Jagr. A better comparable would be Martin St-Louis. Dionne was a better version of MSL.

 

[Zuluss]

So if I run a 100m race against a guy and come in at 9.5 seconds losing to a guy who came in at 9.2 I am some how worse than a guy who wins a race at 9.6?

Hardware doesn't in and of itself tell the whole story, you have to take it in to context.

That's sort of hard, because the 70s was a weird period of time in hockey (expansion, WHA). It was also short-lived, so it is hard to calibrate measures of dominance over the field.
One thing we are sort of confident in is that the very best Canadians were in the NHL back then, so Dionne's position vs. best/2nd-best/3rd-best player is likely to be unaffected and sort of comparable to McDavid's. But that's effectively trophy-counting (or counting top3 finishes).

So here are Dionne's finishes in points: 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7
I'd be disappointed if McDavid finishes with less than that. But yeah, he has to do that first, and then we will compare.

 

[t0nedeff]

played 2 full years and was 1 game away from the Conference Finals. I wish baiters like you would just be put on an automatic list that disallows you from making your own threads.

 

[93LEAFS]

A bit early on this one. One, Dionne never won a Hart, although he got two Pearsons. Two, he didn't become an elite player til much later than McDavid has.

A better historical question is, is Erik Karlsson the next Ray Bourque? A guy loved by his fanbase where fans blame a cheap owner and bad management for squandering his prime, only to watch him win the cup elsewhere but have a parade for him?

As far as hot takes go in regards to comparing current great NHLers to previous great NHLers, I like mine a bit more. Both opinions would be extreme given that Bourque left Boston in his late 30's, and Karlsson is still in his mid to late 20's.

 

[Yamazaki]

No chance. If the oilers are ever that bad for a long period of time you can bet he would request a trade. Only so much you can stay loyal to a franchise....

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Honestly, McDavid's contract is only 8 years long and I suspect that if the Oilers are still incompetent by the time it runs out, he won't re-sign in Edmonton.

 

[Soundwave]

Honestly, McDavid's contract is only 8 years long and I suspect that if the Oilers are still incompetent by the time it runs out, he won't re-sign in Edmonton.

8 years is an eternity in pro sports. Get a competent manager and things will turn quick.

 

[McTrashBoat]

8 years is an eternity in pro sports. Get a competent manager and things will turn quick.

I mean look at Chayka, he's only been in charge for 2 years and already they're the most improved team

 

[Seras]

Is Rasmus Dahlin going to be 40 before he gets traded and wins a cup Ray Bourque style? Discuss.

Did the Oilers draft him already?

 

[SharkInABoloTie]

Is Rasmus Dahlin going to be 40 before he gets traded and wins a cup Ray Bourque style? Discuss.

If he goes to Buffalo? Yes

 

[Soundwave]

No one wants Chia fired more than me, and I agree 110% he needs to go.

That said after 3 seasons in the NHL:

Wayne Gretzky: 3 Harts, 2 Art Ross, 1 playoff round win

Mario Lemieux: 0 Hart, 0 Art Ross, 0 playoff appearances

Connor McDavid: 1 Hart, 2 Art Ross, 1 playoff round win

Of course you don't want bad management to linger, but just because you haven't won a Cup by age 21 doesn't mean the world is over either. Go ask no. 66.

A guy like Jarome Iginla got to play in game 7, winner takes all for a Stanley Cup. So did the Sedins. So did Vincent Lecavalier, so did Pavel Bure, even Eric Lindros made a Finals once. I think McDavid is on a higher tier than these players (with no disrespect to them). Just because you're on a bad team early in your career doesn't mean you'll never play for a Stanley Cup.

 

[ricky0034]

Yes, Dionne played in a very high-scoring era and peaked when the talent was diluted because of WHA existence.

No, Gretzky has little to do with the lack of Dionne's trophies, when Gretzky won his first Art Ross, Dionne was already 29 and never finished in top3 in points afterwards. Dionne lost two Art Rosses to Lafleur and Trottier, and only one to Gretzky.

he also lost one to Orr/Esposito

he could easily have had 5 Art Rosses were it not for ridiculously stacked teams and all time greats

 

[puckpilot]

Yes, yes he is. It's hard to believe after putting up so many 100+ point seasons, in a long and illustrious career he has no cups to show for it. I mean for gosh sake he's 1153 in all-time league scoring, right there with Jannik Hansen, Mike Hough, and Gary Valk. Yes, THAT Gary Valk.

It's a shame. No, it's a tragedy and a crime. The Prime Minister should get involved and demand that he be traded to a contender so that he can finally get that cup. He deserves it after sooooo many years of suffering. I mean if another year goes by, McDavid may actually be able to grow a playoff beard instead of peach fuzz, and what good is a playoff beard without the playoffs? OOOOOHHH the humanity.