Is Mantha a play driver?

[WingsMJN2965]

First time I've seen a pens fan try to make this argument. Interesting.

Between that and the, "He could be on Josh Anderson's level if he could stay healthy", comment, this was either a really poor attempt at trolling, or he just has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.

Considering how quickly he ghosted the thread, I'm going with the latter.

 

[Gurglesons]

Between that and the, "He could be on Josh Anderson's level if he could stay healthy", comment, this was either a really poor attempt at trolling, or he just has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.

Considering how quickly he ghosted the thread, I'm going with the latter.

I was simply making a comment that Mantha would have a better reputation around the league as a power forward if he could stay healthy and use his size more consistently. He'd be viewed in the same breath as Josh Anderson and Tom Wilson as a throwback power forward. I've been talking up Mantha for years on the Pens board, not suppose to be a criticism.

Not surprised Wings fans overreacted and took it the wrong way.

 

[Machinehead]

A) Artemi Panarin
B) Chris Kreider

The Rangers are a lot better with Chris Kreider on the ice than not on the ice. They consistently have improved goal and shot shares with Kreider on the ice for many years. Is that not a play driver? To me, that's the definition. Your presence on the ice makes your team better in a tangible way.

I don't think we should fall into the trap of associating play-driving with producing, necessarily.

A better example of a complimentary player is Ryan Strome. He's a first liner with Panarin and a third liner without Panarin. He doesn't provide anything but he doesn't bring you down. He follows whatever the drivers are doing.

Mantha is a play driver in the sense that the Red Wings are tangibly a better hockey team when he's taking a shift than when he's not. Play driver is not synonymous with "gamebreaker" or "elite" or whatever other superlative you want to throw out. You can be a decent middle-six player and a play driver.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I was simply making a comment that Mantha would have a better reputation around the league as a power forward if he could stay healthy and use his size more consistently. He'd be viewed in the same breath as Josh Anderson and Tom Wilson as a throwback power forward. I've been talking up Mantha for years on the Pens board, not suppose to be a criticism.

Not surprised Wings fans overreacted and took it the wrong way.

Except that Anderson has missed more games due to injury than Mantha over the last 4 years, while being badly outproduced over that period.

Next time you decide to double down on your ignorance, double check first.

 

[Gurglesons]

Except that Anderson has missed more games due to injury than Mantha over the last 4 years, while being badly outproduced over that period.

Next time you decide to double down on your ignorance, double check first.

Please read my posts. I never said anything about Mantha "outproducing" players. I said being viewed as a premier power forward like Tom Wilson. Then you came in and got offended and took it as a knock that Mantha produced less than Wilson or Anderson.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Please read my posts. I never said anything about Mantha "outproducing" players. I said being viewed as a premier power forward like Tom Wilson. Then you came in and got offended and took it as a knock that Mantha produced less than Wilson or Anderson.

Actually, it seems you need to read your posts.

Yeah, Mantha would be viewed as a Tom Wilson / Josh Anderson level power forward if he could make it through a season. Correct, this is what I said. As for now, he's a player that gets injured ever year and flirts with 50 pts.

Because you pretty clearly claim that Mantha might be considered in the same tier as Anderson if he could stay healthy. It's absolutely laughable because Anderson has had multiple injuries in the last 5 years, has missed more games than Mantha due to injury, and has been badly outproduced over that time.

Anderson 16/17 - Present: 259 GP, 64G, 46A, .44 PPG.
Mantha 16/17 - Present: 250GP, 82G, 88A, .68 PPG.

You can't spin your way out of your own BS. You're the one who said it. Maybe in your little world Anderson is a tier above Mantha, but in reality, he's not close.

 

[Pavels Dog]

The answer is 'yes' but it's never as simple as that.

If he was better defensively, he'd drive the play even more. If he was "on" all the time, he'd be a superstar.

As it stands, he drives the play most of the time. His size, skating and skill is hard to stop when he decides to use it. But he can also be a little lazy defensively and disappear from games.

He's someone that should put up some 70-80 point seasons during his prime, needs to stay healthy though.

 

[Gurglesons]

Actually, it seems you need to read your posts.



Because you pretty clearly claim that Mantha might be considered in the same tier as Anderson if he could stay healthy. It's absolutely laughable because Anderson has had multiple injuries in the last 5 years, has missed more games than Mantha due to injury, and has been badly outproduced over that time.

Anderson 16/17 - Present: 259 GP, 64G, 46A, .44 PPG.
Mantha 16/17 - Present: 250GP, 82G, 88A, .68 PPG.

You can't spin your way out of your own BS. You're the one who said it. Maybe in your little world Anderson is a tier above Mantha, but in reality, he's not close.

Going by your own numbers, Anderson has been healthier than Mantha from 16-17 to present?

Once again, my argument was that if Mantha was healthier and more consistent he'd be viewed as a power forward in this league like Anderson and Wilson are. I was saying Mantha is underrated because of his injuries, but I mean keep going.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Going by your own numbers, Anderson has been healthier than Mantha from 16-17 to present?

Mantha was in GR the first 15 games of 16/17, and was a healthy scratch for two more in March of that season. He missed 5 games in 16/17 due to a broken hand, 15 in 18/19 for various injuries, and 28 in 19/20 for a broken hand and a punctured lung.

That's a total of 48 games missed. Anderson missed 44 this season alone for his shoulder injury. Now add the 17 he missed in 17/18 for his knee injury...

Also, I like the complete avoidance of the mammoth difference in production. But it's OK, Anderson makes up for it based on his durability.

Once again, my argument was that if Mantha was healthier and more consistent he'd be viewed as a power forward in this league like Anderson and Wilson are. I was saying Mantha is underrated because of his injuries, but I mean keep going.

Once again, your argument is nonsensical because you cite health and consistency, and then bring up Anderson, who has missed more games due to injury and isn't on the same planet production-wise.

This has been explained to you several times and you just don't seem to be getting it...

 

[Gurglesons]

Mantha was in GR the first 15 games of 16/17, and was a healthy scratch for two more in March of that season. He missed 5 games in 16/17 due to a broken hand, 15 in 18/19 for various injuries, and 28 in 19/20 for a broken hand and a punctured lung.

That's a total of 48 games missed. Anderson missed 44 this season alone for his shoulder injury. Now add the 17 he missed in 17/18 for his knee injury...

Also, I like the complete avoidance of the mammoth difference in production. But it's OK, Anderson makes up for it based on his durability.



Once again, your argument is nonsensical because you cite health and consistency, and then bring up Anderson, who has missed more games due to injury and isn't on the same planet production-wise.

This has been explained to you several times and you just don't seem to be getting it...

No, the argument I'm making isn't about production which is what you seem to not be getting.

I think Mantha is a better player than Wilson and Anderson. What I'm saying is his inconsistency and health has ruined that reputation in the media and league wide and if he played a full season he'd be in the same realm as those two in those terms. That's why I voted him as a play driver. I think he's the best player on Detroit.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

No, the argument I'm making isn't about production which is what you seem to not be getting.

I think Mantha is a better player than Wilson and Anderson. What I'm saying is his inconsistency and health has ruined that reputation in the media and league wide and if he played a full season he'd be in the same realm as those two in those terms. That's why I voted him as a play driver. I think he's the best player on Detroit.

This isn't that difficult.

"What I'm saying is his inconsistency and health has ruined that reputation in the media and league wide and if he played a full season he'd be in the same realm as those two in those terms."

Mantha. Has. Missed. Less. Games. Due. To. Injury. Than. Anderson.

Mantha. Has. Significantly. Outproduced. Anderson. Over. Their. Careers.

So stop with the, "He's less healthy and less consistent", crap. Take the L and move on.

 

[turkleton85]

This isn't that difficult.

"What I'm saying is his inconsistency and health has ruined that reputation in the media and league wide and if he played a full season he'd be in the same realm as those two in those terms."

Mantha. Has. Missed. Less. Games. Due. To. Injury. Than. Anderson.

Mantha. Has. Significantly. Outproduced. Anderson. Over. Their. Careers.

So stop with the, "He's less healthy and less consistent", crap. Take the L and move on.

relax, no reason to explode like that. He hasn't critized mantha. I agree that wilson, anderson and mantha are not really comparable when you look at their play styles, but does it really matter.

Simple answer is what pavels dog wrote. He is a bit inconsistent (though way more consistent than in the beginning of his career), but in my mind clearly detroits best player. He has a great shot, wrister as well as slapper. Is a good passer, and can be an aggressie attacker of the net. With his size, speed and strength, he is one of the best athletes in the league and tough to stop

 

[hockeynorth]

The Rangers are a lot better with Chris Kreider on the ice than not on the ice. They consistently have improved goal and shot shares with Kreider on the ice for many years. Is that not a play driver? To me, that's the definition. Your presence on the ice makes your team better in a tangible way.

I don't think we should fall into the trap of associating play-driving with producing, necessarily.

A better example of a complimentary player is Ryan Strome. He's a first liner with Panarin and a third liner without Panarin. He doesn't provide anything but he doesn't bring you down. He follows whatever the drivers are doing.

Mantha is a play driver in the sense that the Red Wings are tangibly a better hockey team when he's taking a shift than when he's not. Play driver is not synonymous with "gamebreaker" or "elite" or whatever other superlative you want to throw out. You can be a decent middle-six player and a play driver.

Kreider was the first guy who popped into my head since as a leafs fan Hyman is our best complimentary player, we're a way better team with him, but he couldn't do what he does with worse players

I agree Strome would've been a good example

 

[raymond23]

Based on his play last year, when healthy, this is a definitive yes.

 

[RedWingzz]

If Mantha wasn't injured all the time I think he'd be viewed as a Tom Wilson level power forward.

This is a head scratcher for sure....

 

[Fatass]

Of course he drives offence. He’s just not a guy carrying the puck through the neutral zone. He drives play in the O-Zone, especially below the dots.

 

[Gurglesons]

This is a head scratcher for sure....

Red Wings sign power forward Anthony Mantha to four-year, $22.8M deal

Notes: Vanek and Larkin see Mantha as next great NHL power forward

https://thehockeywriters.com/detroit-red-wings-mantha-power-forward/

Yes. Very unique take to refer to Mantha as a potential power forward...

 

[newfy]

Mantha is the definition of play driver. Strong possession guy that can pass and shoot.

A better hockey player than Tom Wilson and noticeably better than Josh Anderson lol what a weird thread

 

[RedWingzz]

Red Wings sign power forward Anthony Mantha to four-year, $22.8M deal

Notes: Vanek and Larkin see Mantha as next great NHL power forward

https://thehockeywriters.com/detroit-red-wings-mantha-power-forward/

Yes. Very unique take to refer to Mantha as a potential power forward...

I was referring to your comparison of Tom Wilson, and then later on, Josh Anderson.

 

[Gurglesons]

I was referring to your comparison of Tom Wilson, and then later on, Josh Anderson.

Are Tom Wilson and Josh Anderson not widely regarded as the "definition" of power forwards in today's NHL?

This is all I was saying. I'm not sure why everyone is taking such offense to it.

 

[RedWingzz]

Are Tom Wilson and Josh Anderson not widely regarded as the "definition" of power forwards in today's NHL?

This is all I was saying. I'm not sure why everyone is taking such offense to it.

Your value is off. Mantha is already a more valuable asset than Wilson and Anderson. I understand the injury concerns, but it doesn't make any sense to say Mantha will be regarded as a power forward like Wilson or Anderson if he stays healthy considering Mantha is already the better player.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Uh oh, is “play driver” the new annoying buzzword we’re going to see all over this site going forward?

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Are Tom Wilson and Josh Anderson not widely regarded as the "definition" of power forwards in today's NHL?

This is all I was saying. I'm not sure why everyone is taking such offense to it.

You’re a good poster and some of the posters went at you in an immature attacking fashion, but it was a bad comparison. Just chalk it up to that. It happens. Mantha - and I’m not exaggerating when I say this - has stretches where he plays like one of the most dominant forwards in the league. He has a skill/size combo that most guys simply don’t, including and especially a guy like Tom Wilson. They’re both big bodies but that’s about where the comparison ends. Same for Anderson, as Mantha has a much higher ceiling. Mantha obviously still needs to do it on a more consistent basis, but I think I can best sum it up this way: if Mantha were playing on Crosby’s wing, you’d probably laugh at yourself looking back at that comparison. It happens. Let it go.

 

[Gurglesons]

You’re a good poster and some of the posters went at you in an immature attacking fashion, but it was a bad comparison. Just chalk it up to that. It happens. Mantha - and I’m not exaggerating when I say this - has stretches where he plays like one of the most dominant forwards in the league. He has a skill/size combo that most guys simply don’t, including and especially a guy like Tom Wilson. They’re both big bodies but that’s about where the comparison ends. Same for Anderson, as Mantha has a much higher ceiling. Mantha obviously still needs to do it on a more consistent basis, but I think I can best sum it up this way: if Mantha were playing on Crosby’s wing, you’d probably laugh at yourself looking back at that comparison. It happens. Let it go.

Which is ironically the point I was trying to make.

I was saying if Mantha was more consistent and healthy he’d be top of the mountain in terms of players with size and skill that can impact the game with both. But, I’ll digress obviously people feel Wilson and Anderson aren’t held in the highest of lights as I do.

I’ve been arguing for Mantha to the Pens for years, and love watching him.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Are Tom Wilson and Josh Anderson not widely regarded as the "definition" of power forwards in today's NHL?

This is all I was saying. I'm not sure why everyone is taking such offense to it.

Pointing out ridiculous logic =/= "Taking offense".

You said if Mantha could stay healthy he might be viewed as a PF on the same level as Josh Anderson... He's already far better than Anderson and has missed less time from injury, so your "Health", qualifier is just really, really strange. Not as strange as you not seeming to be able to understand it after multiple explanations, though.