Is Kevin Lowe the worst defenseman in the HHoF?

[GuineaPig]

With Lowe as precedent, does Brian Rafalski have a chance of getting in?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Potvin probably deserved the Norris that year but it wasn't like Carlyle was a passenger on that horrible Pens team and was his Norris really any worse than the 2 Rod Langway received?

Carlyle won't make the HHOF as player but alot of that has to do with playing the Oilers/Glames in the first round of the playoffs .

I mean if he stays on the Pens how does he look in his 30's with some new guy named Mario on his team?

Also I don't think that it's clear at all that Lowe was really any better than Carlyle, can anyone really make a case for it?

Much worse.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

Jeez, Lowe played a lot of games. More than double Morrow. At his best He must have been better.

A lot of two way dmen played a lot more games than Orr. They must have been better!

No, I was pointing out why no-one is "clamouring to get him (Morrow) into the Hall".

 

[bucks_oil]

I've pulled some quotes from the newspaper archives for people who want to understand what Kevin Lowe brought to the table.

February 6, 1982, Globe and Mail, Neil Campbell


Lowe was voted by the PHWA to the Campbell Conference all star team for the midseason 1984 all star game. Here are the Campbell conference midseason all star teams as voted by the writers. The remaining 8 slots on the team were picked by coaches.

1st team
John Ogrodnick - Wayne Gretzky - Jari Kurri
Paul Coffey - Rob Ramage
Murray Bannerman

Mark Messier - Marcel Dionne - Rick Vaive
Doug Wilson - Kevin Lowe
Grant Fuhr

In 1985, Lowe wasn't voted to the team by the writers, he was a coach's pick (by Glen Sather). In 1986 they replaced the writers voting with fan voting, and Lowe was either a fan vote or a coaches pick for the rest of his all star appearances.

Globe and Mail, April 25, 1984, Neil Campbell


After being voted a top four defenceman in his conference for the midseason all-star game in the 1983-84 season, Lowe went on to be one of the leading contenders for the 1984 Conn Smythe trophy.

Globe and Mail, May 19, 1984, Neil Campbell


Lowe also played on the 1984 Canada Cup team, and was selected for the 1987 Canada Cup team but couldn't play due to injury.

Lowe's scoring stats really dropped off in 1984-85 and 1985-86 as he played more defensively. After his scoring bounced back, he said in the 1987-88 season that the coaches were asking him and the other defencemen to jump up in the play more and not stay back, especially after Paul Coffey left.

Jim Matheson, Edmonton Journal, January 14, 1988


Lowe ended up finishing 5th in Norris and all-star voting for 1987-88, behind Bouque, Scott Stevens, Suter, and Brad McCrimmon. In the playoffs, Lowe famously played through broken ribs and a broken wrist. The article below has Lowe going more in depth about how he had previously played more defensively but now had to get more involved in the attack.

May 21, 1988, Toronto Star, Rick Matsumoto


Globe and Mail, May 20, 1988, Trent Frayne


The 1988-89 Hockey News Yearbook included polls of NHL players on a variety of topics. NHL forwards were polled to name the best defensive defenceman and named Lowe along with Raymond Bourque, Scott Stevens, and Mike Ramsey.

January 6, 1990, Edmonton Journal, Ray Turchansky


In midseason 1990, Lowe was again named as one of the top defensive defencemen in a poll of NHL players. 14 of 123 players named Lowe, behind only Mike Ramsey and Brad McCrimmon. However, Lowe injured his back in the latter part of the 1990 season and struggled to stay in the lineup at times during the playoffs as the Oilers won the Cup.

Lowe went on to have a subpar 1990-91 season, in part because his back continued to trouble him, and he was a step slow. But he bounced back with an improved 1991-92 season as he took the captaincy with the departure of Mark Messier.

Jim Matheson, Edmonton Journal, January 12, 1992


Jim Matheson, Edmonton Journal, May 24, 1992


Jim Matheson, Edmonton Journal, April 17, 1994


June, 6, 1994, Montreal Gazette, Red Fisher


And some comments from Edmonton journalists on Lowe's retirement in 1998.

Jim Matheson, Edmonton Journal, July 31, 1998


Mark Spector, Edmonton Journal, July 31, 1998

Wow... fantastic post. Thanks for pulling it together. I urge all the naysayers to read it. Not to say people need to agree Lowe (or any low scoring Defensive D-man) should be in the Hall of Fame, but read this post first before firming up your opinion.

But don't compare him to tweener offensive guys, it's completely irrelevant. His stats are definitely NOT hall worthy, not anywhere close.

He's there because of defensive play, leadership and yes, 6 Stanley Cups... and those old articles and quotes sum it up very nicely.

 

[bucks_oil]

These quotes accurately describe how the hockey world felt about Lowe at the time...he always seemed like the anchor and leader, and "soul", of the Oilers.

Lowe's prominence on the Oilers, and his importance to the team, was probably roughly the same as Bob Gainey and Serge Savard (who are mentioned) on the Canadiens. And Lowe's game did have some similarities to Savard's....but some significant differences too.

None of this is to say that people have to agree with Lowe's induction to the Hall, though.

--------------------

It's interesting that the Globe article identifies Lowe as being deserving of the Conn Smythe in '84, and also mentions that Messier will probably win it, and also mentions Fuhr (and Clark Gillies, and Steve Penney), but doesn't mention Gretzky...unless this is only part of the article.

Thanks for posting...

I do think that the Gainey comparison is a great one (no pun).

I mean we're talking about one of the all time best dynasties of all time. I think those all-time-great teams should each have their own "heart and soul" unsung hero in the hall.

The Islanders have Gillies, who is definitely not there for his scoring (only TWO ppg seasons in the EIGHTIES), but for his leadership and defensive play.

Montreal has Gainey, same story there, although he did have several Selke's to his name.

Edmonton has Lowe. If there were a "best defensive defenseman" award, he'd certainly have been nominated, if not won it several times in the eighties. The recognition by Hockey News player polls certainly shows that (and media would have been swayed by team success, likely making he, Howe and Bourque trading honors from year to year).

 

[MXD]

With Lowe as precedent, does Brian Rafalski have a chance of getting in?

Rafalski was a great player and definitely a model for the new generation of D-Men to come, but his best Norris finish is 9th, three times (and one that came off an unexplainable 1st place vote in 2008...), and has never gotten more than 11 invididual votes for the award. He also played 833 regular season games, which would be the lowest amount for a D-Men in the HHOF since Bobby Orr. The only modern (read, post O6) D-Men that's anywhere close to Rafalski in terms of games played is Guy Lapointe, with 884 games. But Lapointe is a 6X Cup Winner and has six Top-5 Norris finishes, so him and Rafalski are definitely not in the same stratosphere.

 

[Fixxer]

I think there are a few insightful comments out there about Lowe.