Is Karlsson Bobby Orr 2.0?

[ottawa]

Lol no.

EK will solidify him as one of the all time greats but he won't be regarded as good as Orr

 

[jgatie]

Lidstrom is the best D to have ever played.

And it isn't particularly close.

You'd could bring a Martian to Earth, sit him in front of highlights of Bobby Orr and Nick Lidstrom, and that Martian would know within 2 minutes that Orr is better.

But you know that, and are just trying to wind things up.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Lidstrom is the best D to have ever played.

And it isn't particularly close.

^^^^^ Comments like this are what make Lidstrom the most overrated player of my lifetime

 

[Number8]

Lidstrom is the best D to have ever played.

And it isn't particularly close.

What is this "D" you speak of?

I ask because obviously you're not talking about a hockey player playing defense.

I will say quite confidently that you are not the best ever "pot stirrer". To do that you have to be a bit more subtle.

 

[jgatie]

What is this "D" you speak of?

I ask because obviously you're not talking about a hockey player playing defense.

I will say quite confidently that you are not the best ever "pot stirrer". To do that you have to be a bit more subtle.

Or a bit closer to reality.

 

[armani]

^^^^^ Comments like this are what make Lidstrom the most overrated player of my lifetime

If anything, Lidstrom was underrated and overlooked/ignored before winning his first of seven Norris' at age 31.

How does a fan opinion change the fact that Lidstrom is one of the greatest defencemen in history? I see him and Bourque in the same tier, of course Lidstrom won more cups and individual awards (7 x Norris', Conn Smythe) as part of Red Wings dynasty, while Bourque had to leave Boston on a stacked Colorado team to finally lift the elusive cup and retire.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

If anything, Lidstrom was underrated and overlooked/ignored before winning his first of seven Norris' at age 31.

How does a fan opinion change the fact that Lidstrom is one of the greatest defencemen in history? I see him and Bourque in the same tier, of course Lidstrom won more cups and individual awards (7 x Norris', Conn Smythe) as part of Red Wings dynasty.

He's overrated when he gets placed above guys like Bourque, Potvin, and Harvey.....something I see happen around here all the time. Although with threads like this one Karlsson will soon be giving him a run for his money in the overrated department.

 

[Fugazy]

It's not really fair to compare Karlsson to Orr. He likely won't reach that elite level but will still go down as an all-time great defenseman.

 

[MikeGrier99]

The numbers alone show how dominant Orr was. Anyone who sees those numbers and doesn't wonder in awe how someone played so much above the rest is beyond me. The hockey of the past had many different styles, all of which are severely underrated on these boards. People scored at different rates and played different styles, but every era was still a tough league to play in with obvious talents dictating how the game was played. A good chunk of Orr's career was not high scoring 80's style free flowing hockey. He scored at an incredible rate no matter what happened elsewhere around the league. The league changed because of him, a testament to being one of the most influential people to ever play the game. It's no doubt true that the gap between players is tighter now than ever, but even with whatever sort of era adjustments you want to make, Orr's career was just stunning and one of the highlights of hockey history. Who knows when we'll see the next skill of that caliber, but with all due respect to Karlsson, Lidstrom, Pronger, Niedermeyer, Keith, Doughty, Hedman, Weber, Subban, Chara, Macinnis, Robinson, Leetch, Potvin, etc. all after him, none of them were on Orr's level. Maybe only Bourque, Harvey, and Coffey can begin to compare and even in that case fail to match him.

 

[LiveeviL]

From here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2351709

I've posted this in another thread, but I'll re-post it here, since it certainly qualifies as an "amazing Karlsson stat":

DEFENSEMEN CONTRIBUTION TO TEAM OFFENSE

Players | Season | Team | Points | TeamG | Percentage
Bobby Orr | 1970 | BOS | 120 | 277 | 43.3%
Bobby Orr | 1975 | BOS | 135 | 345 | 39.1%
Erik Karlsson | 2016 | OTT | 82| 236 | 35.7%
Bobby Orr | 1972 | BOS | 117 | 330 | 35.5%
Bobby Orr | 1974 | BOS | 122 | 349 | 35%
Erik Karlsson | 2017 | OTT | 72 | 206 | 35%
Bobby Orr | 1971 | BOS | 139 | 399 | 34.8%
Brent Burns | 2017 | SJS | 76 | 219 | 34.7%
Phil Housley | 1992 | WIN | 86 | 251 | 34.3%
Denis Potvin | 1976 | NYI | 98 | 297 | 33%
Paul Coffey | 1989 | PIT | 113 | 347 | 32.6%
Paul Coffey | 1990 | PIT | 103 | 318 | 32.4%
Paul Coffey | 1986 | EDM | 138 | 426 | 32.4%
Erik Karlsson | 2014 | OTT | 74 | 229 | 32.3%
Paul Coffey | 1995 | DET | 58 | 180 | 32.2%
Erik Karlsson | 2012 | OTT | 78 | 243 | 32.1%
Brian Leetch | 1992 | NYR | 102 | 321 | 31.8%
Ray Bourque | 1987 | BOS | 95 | 301 | 31.6%
Brian Leetch | 2001 | NYR | 79 | 250 | 31.6%
Ray Bourque | 1994 | BOS | 91 | 289 | 31.5%

This statistic looks at the percentage of their team's offense a defenseman has contributed to. I don't remember how far back the data goes, but it's at least to 1950, if not earlier.

As you'd expect, Bobby Orr dominates the list. He has the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th and 7th highest-ranking seasons of all-time.

What was surprising is how well Karlsson fares. He ranks 3rd, 6th, 14th and 16th. He already has as many spots on the list as Coffey (but consistently ranks higher). He fares better than Bourque and Leetch. Most impressively, Orr and Karlsson combined to up all of the top seven positions.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

From here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2351709

Pretty much says Orr was on a tier of his own... The conversation starts about who's next

 

[Barrie22]

Pretty much says Orr was on a tier of his own... The conversation starts about who's next

Then bourque is on a tier of his own below orr.

Then a handful of players fighting for 3rd and on.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Then bourque is on a tier of his own below orr.

Then a handful of players fighting for 3rd and on.

I respect that opinion but the conclusion is not as clear...

Lidstrom , Potvin, Bourque are all on the same tier to me