Is Jokerit entry in KHL plus or minus?

[raus]

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[Peter25]

1. From KHL's perspective it is a plus. KHL gets a new big hockey market, new exposure and new fans.

2. From Liiga's perspective it is a minus. Liiga loses one of its biggest teams. The level of play in Liiga will be further weakened because Sport Vaasa cannot replace Jokerit and because Jokerit takes lots of good Liiga players away to KHL.

3. From Finnish players perspective it is a plus. Jokerit pays better salaries in the KHL than they did in Liiga.

4. From Finland's national team perspective it is probably a plus, because more national team players will play in a higher level league than before. Playing in the KHL has elevated the level of many Latvian players like Darzins, Redlihs and Indrasis so that Latvia can compete rather well internationally despite having miniscule hockey resources (number of players, rinks).

 

[pulverapa]

Well, it is true that some teams in the KHL are high level but there are also teams that are weaker than some of the Finnish teams - so you could argue that the level of play is more or less the same.

 

[Peter25]

Well, it is true that some teams in the KHL are high level but there are also teams that are weaker than some of the Finnish teams

Last season teams such as Amur and Minsk might have been weaker than Kärpät and Tappara, but a big majority of the KHL teams are better than any Liiga team.

- so you could argue that the level of play is more or less the same.

No, the level of play in the KHL is just a lot better than it is in Liiga. You only need to watch the games to see the difference.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Well, it is true that some teams in the KHL are high level but there are also teams that are weaker than some of the Finnish teams - so you could argue that the level of play is more or less the same.

That's just not true, now more than ever. Liiga is weaker than it has ever been and the difference between it and KHL at this point really is considerable.

 

[Peter25]

If you compare the level of play in KHL finals between Metallurg and Lev and Liiga finals between Kärpät and Tappara the difference of skill, speed, tempo and even physical play was noticeable.

 

[pulverapa]

The better teams are slightly better in KHL, that's true. But you guys put to much faith into the KHL teams. Kärpät would easily have clinched a playoff spot in the KHL if they had played last year. The difference is much smaller than you think. No way in hell Metallurg Novokuznetsk would win SM-Liiga.

I think Jokerit to KHL is good overall. I'm going to follow this project closely.

 

[Peter25]

The better teams are slightly better in KHL, that's true.

The best teams in the KHL are a lot better than any team in Liiga.

Middle tier teams are better than most of the teams in Liiga.

A few worst teams in the KHL (Amur, Novokuznetsk, Vityaz, Minsk in last season, probably Sochi) are about the same level as most of Liiga teams.

Kärpät would easily have clinched a playoff spot in the KHL if they had played last year.

Easily? Is Kärpät a better team than Avangard who did not advance to playoffs last season?

The difference is much smaller than you think. No way in hell Metallurg Novokuznetsk would win SM-Liiga.

I don't think so either that Novokuznetsk would win Liiga championships. But their last season's roster was still better than most of Liiga teams.

 

[SoundAndFury]

The better teams are slightly better in KHL, that's true. But you guys put to much faith into the KHL teams. Kärpät would easily have clinched a playoff spot in the KHL if they had played last year. The difference is much smaller than you think. No way in hell Metallurg Novokuznetsk would win SM-Liiga.

Teams like Avangard or Traktor have missed the playoffs this year, what's your case for Karpat easily making them? Pyorala was Karpat's leading scorer in the playoffs, guy was on pace for 20 points in the KHL.

Sure Kuznya would never win the Liiga but some 10th KHL team like Donbass or Salavat Yulaev easily could.

Edit: me and Peter keep doubling up and even coming up with same arguments

 

[martin1983]

The difference is much smaller than you think. No way in hell Metallurg Novokuznetsk would win SM-Liiga.

Metallurg Novokuznetsk? The fact that you comparing one of the worst teams in KHL with best teams in Liiga, said everything.

 

[Peter25]

Metallurg Novokuznetsk? The fact that you comparing one of the worst teams in KHL with best teams in Liiga, said everything.

And you have to consider the size of the two leagues. Liiga has 14 teams and the KHL will have 29-30 teams next season.

Novokuznetsk was a 27th seed team in the KHL this season. If you are going to make team vs. team comparisons Novokuznetsk should be compared to a 13th seed Mestis team (which would be the 27th seed team overall in Finland) and that would be kind of hard because Mestis only has 12 teams.

 

[pulverapa]

Metallurg Novokuznetsk? The fact that you comparing one of the worst teams in KHL with best teams in Liiga, said everything.

If you read closely "Peter" said Novokuznetsk is better than Kärpät, which I said they are not. The difference between top KHL teams and bottom NHL teams is very small, in the same way the best teams in SM-Liiga is almost as good as the best teams in KHL. Salavat Yulaev, a top team in the KHL, would compete for gold in SM-Liiga but is not a certain winner.

In general, I don't think the Jokerit transfer will affect Finnish hockey much at all, hopefully Jokerit helps Europe to become more tolerant towards Russia and Eastern hockey. That's their biggest mission in my opinion.

 

[martin1983]

If you read closely "Peter" said Novokuznetsk is better than Kärpät, which I said they are not. The difference between top KHL teams and bottom NHL teams is very small, in the same way the best teams in SM-Liiga is almost as good as the best teams in KHL. Salavat Yulaev, a top team in the KHL, would compete for gold in SM-Liiga but is not a certain winner.

If you read closely "Peter" said "KHL finals between Metallurg and Lev". Metallurg Novokuznetsk ended 27th and dont even played in play off.

I'm sure he talked about Metallurg Magnitogorsk, because they played that final against Lev!

 

[Jussi]

That's just not true, now more than ever. Liiga is weaker than it has ever been and the difference between it and KHL at this point really is considerable.

How many Lüga games did you watch this past season and via what source?

 

[Jussi]

If you compare the level of play in KHL finals between Metallurg and Lev and Liiga finals between Kärpät and Tappara the difference of skill, speed, tempo and even physical play was noticeable.

How would you know the difference between the finals when you've admitted to not even following the Finnish league anymore?

 

[SoundAndFury]

How many Lüga games did you watch this past season and via what source?

Frankly, like 5 minutes of some TPS match mid-season and like 20 minutes of the finals. There are streams. However, I can't see how it's relevant. Do I have to see a Dutch league match to know the level there is low? There are other ways to determine how good the league is, you know.

Anyway, do you have any arguments to prove me wrong or will you be just trying to prove I can't know for sure that I'm right?

 

[Finnpin]

If you compare the level of play in KHL finals between Metallurg and Lev and Liiga finals between Kärpät and Tappara the difference of skill, speed, tempo and even physical play was noticeable.

You should watch some more games. Playoffs particular. Even when Robidas played in SM-liiga during the lockout he was amazed how physical the league is...lots of physical battles and I don't mean fights. Even this year's playoffs were jokingly called "wrestling hockey" cause the refs let the players have too much freedom.

But this is going so OT. My dad can beat your dad kind of BS.

There is plus and minus in Jokerit joining KHL...depends how you look at things. Time will tell us more. But looking how poorly Liiga is runned atm, this is now a good opportunity for Jokerit nation to explore a new world. I'm looking forward to see a better level of hockey (Where's the tv deal btw?) and leave the politics out. Next year I don't give a damn about Liiga, though will follow Vaasan Sport a little bit.

 

[Finnpin]

Jokerit Helsinki 2014/2015 season talk - thread has 46,722 views already

 

[Jussi]

Jokerit Helsinki 2014/2015 season talk - thread has 46,722 views already

It went under a different name previously.

 

[Finnpin]

It went under a different name previously.

Something like "Composition of Jokerit team", so basically the same.

 

[cska78]

I think, that it's a plus all around: chances are, that majority of the players employed by Jokerit would have been in the KHL sooner or later, now Finns can see them in their own back-yard, including other Finnish players playing in the KHL.
I guess a loss of a big name team hurts the liga and the nature of European fans loving their local rivalries will be a little disturbed. But once you see that Jokerit is successful (and they will be to a degree) you will get on board eventually.

 

[Rekin]

A few worst teams in the KHL (Amur, Novokuznetsk, Vityaz, Minsk in last season, probably Sochi) are about the same level as most of Liiga teams.

I think that most Finnish League organizations are quite established and do their business more or less seriously while in the KHL there still are some rather wild teams. So while the Finnish resources are definitely a lot lower and economic problems are no exceptions, still I think that the bottom level of the KHL is not at all hard to reach and beat. Not for the Finnish teams and not even for most Central European pro hockey organizations.

 

[Hemsky001]

Plus for KHL, minus for SM-liiga.

 

[loppa*]

I can't decide if it is a plus or minus, and for whom... there is stuff be to gained and lost on both sides.

 

[Rekin]

Can't see how the Finnish league could possibly be gaining. Of course in Vaasa there will be a lot of interest for a season or two and maybe they'll expand to other towns like Kouvola as well, but still it's like replacing the Rangers with Indianapolis Ice.