Is JM Liles Hurt? Why isn't he playing in the pre-season?

[dfunk]

My wife just had a kid. And the reality continues. Liles is an asset, and there is NO NEED to move him, and that should there BE A NEED to move him, he HAS VALUE and CAN BE MOVED and you DON'T have to have it be in a ridiculous Liles + Colborne + Kadri for future considerations package like you people are suggesting.



Even in the highly unlikely event that no trade partners were available, and Liles couldn't be moved, demoting him to the Marlies provides $925,000 in cap space which is enough to solve all cap issues. ALL CAP ISSUES. SOLVED.

FORWARDS
Joffrey Lupul ($5.250m) / Tyler Bozak ($4.200m) / Phil Kessel ($5.400m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Nazem Kadri ($2.900m) / David Clarkson ($5.250m)
Mason Raymond ($1.000m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m)
Jay McClement ($1.500m) / Joe Colborne ($0.600m) / Colton Orr ($0.925m)
Frazer McLaren ($0.700m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dion Phaneuf ($6.500m) / Carl Gunnarsson ($3.150m)
Jake Gardiner ($1.117m) / Paul Ranger ($1.000m)
Morgan Rielly ($1.744m) / Mark Fraser ($1.275m)
Cody Franson ($2.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Bernier ($2.900m)
James Reimer ($1.800m)
OTHER
Buyout: Darcy Tucker ($1.000m)
Buyout: Colby Armstrong ($1.000m)
Buried: John-Michael Liles ($2.950m)
RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (0.778% of upper limit)
Matt Frattin ($0.437m—0.5%) Ben Scrivens ($0.062m—0.1%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,085,833; BONUSES: $1,150,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $364,167

That's assuming Carlyle decides he wants Rielly on the roster.

If you don't add Rielly, there's no need to even move Liles down.

The only presumption needed is that Franson is re-signed at the $2M/1YR bridge deal that is being speculated. If he holds out for more money, then the Leafs can just let him sit, promote Rielly, and keep Liles. Which again, solves all cap issues and ices a solid roster.

So all this nambly-pambly chicken little psychotic thread-making and proposals and complete stupidity can end. The situation is being handled by people with a proper read on the matter.

Thank you for coming.

Well, that would maybe have worked, but now with Clarkson out 10 games and his cap hit still there it doesn't work. You left $364k of cap space, but too bad we need to bring up another forward to have 13, and that player's caphit will be at least $550k. I highly doubt we run with just 12 forwards when 2 of them are McLaren n Orr. So, for the sake of arguing, I disagree and think that there has to be a trade. Doesn't have to necessarily be Liles, but ideally it would be.

 

[Mess]

Well, that would maybe have worked, but now with Clarkson out 10 games and his cap hit still there it doesn't work. You left $364k of cap space, but too bad we need to bring up another forward to have 13, and that player's caphit will be at least $550k. I highly doubt we run with just 12 forwards when 2 of them are McLaren n Orr. So, for the sake of arguing, I disagree and think that there has to be a trade. Doesn't have to necessarily be Liles, but ideally it would be.

Also includes Franson at $2 mil and if he was willing to take that amount he would have been long signed by now.

Liles needs to go, and hopefully Nonis can pull a rabbit out of his hat and make him disappear.

 

[StuckOutHere]

You couldn't get one of those shiny fiberglass sticks for that package. Post-concussion Liles has never been the same and Colborne's upside is a less-talented version of Christian Hanson.
3.9M cap hit the next 3 years for Liles, who in their right mind would take that for anything?

This is simply not true.

 

[Duke Silver]

Well, that would maybe have worked, but now with Clarkson out 10 games and his cap hit still there it doesn't work. You left $364k of cap space, but too bad we need to bring up another forward to have 13, and that player's caphit will be at least $550k. I highly doubt we run with just 12 forwards when 2 of them are McLaren n Orr. So, for the sake of arguing, I disagree and think that there has to be a trade. Doesn't have to necessarily be Liles, but ideally it would be.

Why do you doubt that when it happened so frequently last season?

Besides, Nonis has already said that the Leafs may start the season with only 21-22 players. It's not unlikely they'd go with 12 forwards for a few games. Hell, throw Gardiner up on forward for a few games if injuries push another forward out of the lineup. There's ways around it.

Yes, ideally there would be a trade to open up flexibility, but it isn't a necessity.

 

[CellarDweller0]

A trade already being in place for JML and Nonis taking his time to evaluate the players in the preseason seems to make sense with some of the actions he has taken so far. I don't know, but this is just a strong hunch for me. Time will tell.

 

[Porn*]

while the games mean nothing, Carlyle will play the kids before sending them down. This is especially true since they aren't messing up.

Liles will either get 5-6 ice time with fraser or be in the box once franson returns

I don't see a trade for him happening, he's making too much

 

[Duke Silver]

while the games mean nothing, Carlyle will play the kids before sending them down. This is especially true since they aren't messing up.

Liles will either get 5-6 ice time with fraser or be in the box once franson returns

I don't see a trade for him happening, he's making too much

What about retained salary? You don't think he would have value to someone at around $2M?

 

[JetsHomer]

My wife just had a kid. And the reality continues. Liles is an asset, and there is NO NEED to move him, and that should there BE A NEED to move him, he HAS VALUE and CAN BE MOVED and you DON'T have to have it be in a ridiculous Liles + Colborne + Kadri for future considerations package like you people are suggesting.



Even in the highly unlikely event that no trade partners were available, and Liles couldn't be moved, demoting him to the Marlies provides $925,000 in cap space which is enough to solve all cap issues. ALL CAP ISSUES. SOLVED.

FORWARDS
Joffrey Lupul ($5.250m) / Tyler Bozak ($4.200m) / Phil Kessel ($5.400m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Nazem Kadri ($2.900m) / David Clarkson ($5.250m)
Mason Raymond ($1.000m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m)
Jay McClement ($1.500m) / Joe Colborne ($0.600m) / Colton Orr ($0.925m)
Frazer McLaren ($0.700m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dion Phaneuf ($6.500m) / Carl Gunnarsson ($3.150m)
Jake Gardiner ($1.117m) / Paul Ranger ($1.000m)
Morgan Rielly ($1.744m) / Mark Fraser ($1.275m)
Cody Franson ($2.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Bernier ($2.900m)
James Reimer ($1.800m)
OTHER
Buyout: Darcy Tucker ($1.000m)
Buyout: Colby Armstrong ($1.000m)
Buried: John-Michael Liles ($2.950m)
RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (0.778% of upper limit)
Matt Frattin ($0.437m—0.5%) Ben Scrivens ($0.062m—0.1%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,085,833; BONUSES: $1,150,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $364,167

That's assuming Carlyle decides he wants Rielly on the roster.

If you don't add Rielly, there's no need to even move Liles down.

The only presumption needed is that Franson is re-signed at the $2M/1YR bridge deal that is being speculated. If he holds out for more money, then the Leafs can just let him sit, promote Rielly, and keep Liles. Which again, solves all cap issues and ices a solid roster.

So all this nambly-pambly chicken little psychotic thread-making and proposals and complete stupidity can end. The situation is being handled by people with a proper read on the matter.

Thank you for coming.

You know Clarkson is suspended right?

 

[Ruski]

oh oh....Eklund reporting Leafs are on the verge of moving a defencemen.

Must mean we aren't making a trade

On the off chance this does happen, i really hope we aren't retaining any salary, as Liles is a solid puck moving D for a team! We just don't have the roster/cap space for him....

He is going to be a fine Top 4 D on whatever team acquires him

 

[diceman934]

I was repeatedly told we could trade him and his salary easily and we're just using him as leverage to sign Franson for cheap before we trade him .

I wonder where those posters went .

As was I when we extended him, when we should have traded him. I was told he was a bargain at $3.875M when I thought that it was a horrible contract for a guy who was redundant.

 

[Duke Silver]

You know Clarkson is suspended right?

So flip Raymond or Kulemin up on the second line, promote Colborne or McClement to third line duties, and have McLaren fill in on the fourth. Solved.

 

[dfunk]

Why do you doubt that when it happened so frequently last season?

Besides, Nonis has already said that the Leafs may start the season with only 21-22 players. It's not unlikely they'd go with 12 forwards for a few games. Hell, throw Gardiner up on forward for a few games if injuries push another forward out of the lineup. There's ways around it.

Yes, ideally there would be a trade to open up flexibility, but it isn't a necessity.

The bolded is a new one..........

 

[Deebo]

Also includes Franson at $2 mil and if he was willing to take that amount he would have been long signed by now.

Liles needs to go, and hopefully Nonis can pull a rabbit out of his hat and make him disappear.

If he was desperate to rid the team of Liles' salary he probably should have exercised a compliance buy-out on Liles and a regular course buyout on Komisarek.

 

[Mess]

If he was desperate to rid the team of Liles' salary he probably should have exercised a compliance buy-out on Liles and a regular course buyout on Komisarek.

Has any team in the history of the NHL ever bought out 3 players in the same off-season?

Nonis unfortunately simply inherited tooooo many previous contract mistakes and hasn't been able to clean up all the mess yet in his first year on the job. He already bought out 2 players costing his organization < $17 mil to have players play on other teams, so perhaps MLSE felt that was enough wasted money already.

Besides a regular course buyout of Komisarek because of his front loaded contract would have had a $2.25 mil cap hit this year, while demoting Liles to the AHL now will have a $2.9 mil cap result.. The difference < $700k which is about a minimum wage NHL player. Running a 22 man roster instead of 23 man roster would make the end result = in terms of Cap, without have to pay Liles millions to play for another organization.

 

[Cor]

Liles + Colborne to Calgary for Horak

 

[Mess]

Liles + Colborne to Calgary for Horak

Calgary might be the only team to want that contract as previous connections to the GM that handed it out to him exist.

Maybe Nonis can call in a favour and dump him on his former boss and pal to resolve Leafs cap issues.. The former GM has a past track record of accepting bad contracts in trade so this is not chartered territory here.

However you're likely setting your sights to high as Horak is considered a top prospect of the Flames, as I would personally expect the return to the Leafs be less.

 

[Cor]

Calgary might be the only team to want that contract as previous connections to the GM that handed it out to him exist.

Maybe Nonis can call in a favour and dump him on his former boss and pal to resolve Leafs cap issues.. The former GM has a past track record of accepting bad contracts in trade so this is not chartered territory here.

However you're likely setting your sights to high as Horak is considered a top prospect of the Flames, as I would personally expect the return to the Leafs be less.

Sorry I meant Ryan Howse.

Solid prospect, but seems to have fallen off in Calgary.

 

[Hurt]

oh oh....Eklund reporting Leafs are on the verge of moving a defencemen.

Must mean we aren't making a trade

On the off chance this does happen, i really hope we aren't retaining any salary, as Liles is a solid puck moving D for a team! We just don't have the roster/cap space for him....

He is going to be a fine Top 4 D on whatever team acquires him

This joke has run its course, in my opinion, at least. We get it. Eklund is inaccurate.

 

[Deebo]

Has any team in the history of the NHL ever bought out 3 players in the same off-season?

I don't know, I don't see how it is relevant though. This off season is a unique situation.

Nonis unfortunately simply inherited tooooo many previous contract mistakes and hasn't been able to clean up all the mess yet in his first year on the job.

He could have, if he wanted to. We don't know if he wants to dump Liles. That's your speculation that he is desperate to dump him.

He already bought out 2 players costing his organization < $17 mil to have players play on other teams, so perhaps MLSE felt that was enough wasted money already.

We've never heard about MLSE rejecting a move that a GM has proposed due to money, so why would you think think that is the case now? More speculation on your part.

Besides a regular course buyout of Komisarek because of his front loaded contract would have had a $2.25 mil cap hit this year, while demoting Liles to the AHL now will have a $2.9 mil cap result.. The difference < $700k which is about a minimum wage NHL player. Running a 22 man roster instead of 23 man roster would make the end result = in terms of Cap, without have to pay Liles millions to play for another organization.

I wasn't talking about this scenario, you just made up a reason for the scenario I suggested not being possible.

What I am suggesting would have resulted in:

Komisarek on the cap for this year @ 2.5 rather than Liles at 3.875M, cap savings of 1.375M this season.

Going forward, Komisarek's buyout would have been on the books for one more year at a lower amount than Liles' 3.875M next year, so there is cap savings in year 2.

In years 3 and 4, there would be 0 on the cap for both Komisarek and Liles so the savings in those years would be 3.875M.

It's quite clear mess. IF Nonis wanted to rid the team of Liles' cap hit, this was the way to do it.

These are what you call facts, no speculation, no spin, no rhetoric, no agendas, just facts.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

He's in the Maple Leafs' regular season plans and they know what they have in him. Definitely disagree with those who think hes sitting so he doesn't get injured and therefore can't be traded. Carlyle likes to have extra defenseman around for insurance purposes, the Leafs don't want to trade Liles (yet).

 

[KuleminFan41]

I was repeatedly told we could trade him and his salary easily and we're just using him as leverage to sign Franson for cheap before we trade him .

I wonder where those posters went .

What happens if he does get traded and Franson gets signed? Where will you go?

Besides, Islanders, Flames and Panthers all have room and aren't in need of signing anybody from the looks of it. He can be traded to them for a 3rd or 4th or something. Possible but idk

 

[hotpaws]

What happens if he does get traded and Franson gets signed? Where will you go?

Besides, Islanders, Flames and Panthers all have room and aren't in need of signing anybody from the looks of it. He can be traded to them for a 3rd or 4th or something. Possible but idk

I won't go anywhere , I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong .

I think he can get traded for another salary dump like the Blake for Giggy deal or if we retain a large enough chunk of his salary he may be able to be moved for a late rd pick or a nothing prospect .

I however don't believe there's a team in the league who would touch him at full salary even if all they had to do was claim him off waivers .

 

[satyr9]

So Rielly's going to get his audition with Franson holding out while Clarkson is benched is my guess for all this. If they get Franson signed they may have to rock 1-2 games with no 13th forward to squeeze Franson in before Clarkson is eligible so Rielly can go back to junior before his eligibility runs out.

Of course Rielly and/or Franson could kaibosh that scenario, but I think that's what Nonis has left for now. If Liles could've played into the relief I really think it would've happened by now, but it's always possible an injury or something opens up options for him on the trade market as well.

 

[Morguee]

Kulemin + Liles to Edmonton for

 

[indigobuffalo]

Well, that would maybe have worked, but now with Clarkson out 10 games and his cap hit still there it doesn't work. You left $364k of cap space, but too bad we need to bring up another forward to have 13, and that player's caphit will be at least $550k. I highly doubt we run with just 12 forwards when 2 of them are McLaren n Orr. So, for the sake of arguing, I disagree and think that there has to be a trade. Doesn't have to necessarily be Liles, but ideally it would be.

You know Clarkson is suspended right?

Either they go with 12 forwards (which is not impossible) for the first 10 games, or they benefit from the unsigned Franson situation, and use the following:

FORWARDS
Joffrey Lupul ($5.250m) / Tyler Bozak ($4.200m) / Phil Kessel ($5.400m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Nazem Kadri ($2.900m) / Mason Raymond ($1.000m)
Jay McClement ($1.500m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m)
Carter Ashton ($1.040m) / Joe Colborne ($0.600m) / Colton Orr ($0.925m)
David Clarkson ($5.250m) (SUSPENDED)
Frazer McLaren ($0.700m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dion Phaneuf ($6.500m) / Carl Gunnarsson ($3.150m)
Jake Gardiner ($1.117m) / Paul Ranger ($1.000m)
Morgan Rielly ($1.744m) / Mark Fraser ($1.275m)
Stuart Percy ($1.076m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Bernier ($2.900m)
James Reimer ($1.800m)
OTHER
Buyout: Darcy Tucker ($1.000m)
Buyout: Colby Armstrong ($1.000m)
Buried: John-Michael Liles ($2.950m)
RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (0.778% of upper limit)
Matt Frattin ($0.437m—0.5%) Ben Scrivens ($0.062m—0.1%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,201,667; BONUSES: $1,562,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $660,833

Which even then still allows enough room to carry an extra forward like or defenseman. The 7th d-man doesn't need to be Percy, though I thought he had the best camp among the d-men. Use Holzer or another as the case applies. Besides it's a temporary roster because everything corrects itself after 10 games when Clarkson returns. You can even demote guys and play 12 forwards on the 10th game to avoid burning an ELC year.