Is Jim Rutherford the best GM of all time?

[gordie]

I remember a guy that used to wear a bow-tie all the time that built a team responsible for 4 cups and 19 straight playoff series wins. Name is on the tip of my tongue......

Jim Rutherford is only 1 cup win behind him and I hope he doesn't read these boards because he might get the idea he should have run a car wash instead of being a NHL GM.

 

[Riptide]

How did Pittsburgh get in that position in the first place? Luck played a significant role (Crosby), but so did good drafting. Who's ultimately responsible for Carolina's underwhelming draft record pre-2010 and thus the position the Canes have been in this decade?

My point was not to argue that he's a bad GM, just that's he's not the "best GM of all time." 5 playoff appearances in 20 years on the job in Hartford/Carolina speaks for itself. Market attractiveness and/or financial resources are not valid excuses for that.

I don't think there's much question of that - even among Pen fans.

 

[td_ice]

I read all these ridiculous "best of all time" "worst of all time", thread titles, which is all the rage, in Muhammad Ali's voice.

 

[Brownies]

Jim Rutherford is only 1 cup win behind him and I hope he doesn't read these boards because he might get the idea he should have run a car wash instead of being a NHL GM.

Most people think he's a really good GM, but have a problem with the "of all time" part. I think he's been perfect the last two years, but he's had too many not so good years in Carolina to earn the title.

Anyway, who really has the knowledge to rank the best GMs of all time ? I certainly don't know enough.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

I don't care what he was doing. Sitting on his porch or having meetings with ownership. He wasn't making the hockey moves essential to a team's success and that's why a huge question was put on the hire when the Pen's President David Morehouse turned to him for help.

Again, you misremember. Rutherford was out of the hockey operations seat for an entire 39 days between when he stepped aside on 4/28/14 and got hired by the Pens on 6/6/14. The huge question was put on his hire not because he was out of the game for some length of time but for how he had run the Hurricanes into the ground with disastrous moves like the Semin contract extension, signing Tomas Kaberle to a 3-year contract, his inability to sign a backup goalie of even fair-to-middling talent, his declarations of "We like our group" when clearly there were moves to be made to improve the team, his idiotic attempt to replace Erik Cole with a power forward by committee of Anthony Stewart and Alexei Ponikarovsky, his stubborn insistence that a guy like Chad LaRose could be a first-liner, his notable trade acquisitions like Anson Carter, Alexandre Picard, Derek Joslin, and Marc-Andre Bergeron, blockbuster free agent signings like Ian White, Stefan Yelle, Patrick O'Sullivan and Tim Brent, and amazing draft talents like Philippe Paradis, Jamie McBain, Zac Dalpe, and Zach Boychuk.

 

[1909]

... "Of all time" ?

Please. You cannot compare eras.

But he is certainly one of the best since year 2000. And most specifically since Cap era. But the guy inherited of Crosby and Malkin from the previous GM to build on in Pïttsburg. Not a bad basesemnt.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

... "Of all time" ?

Please. You cannot compare eras.

But he is certainly one of the best since year 2000. And most specifically since Cap era. But the guy inherited of Crosby and Malkin from the previous GM to build on in Pïttsburg. Not a bad basesemnt.

Actually, Pittsburgh drafted Crosby and Malkin two GMs prior to Rutherford - Craig Patrick was the GM at the time they were drafted.

 

[1909]

Actually, Pittsburgh drafted Crosby and Malkin two GMs prior to Rutherford - Craig Patrick was the GM at the time they were drafted.

Thanks for the info.

But Rutherford is a lucky man. We can maybe credit him for the rookies produced each season ikn the last 3 coming out Wilkes-Barre.

 

[gordie]

Again, you misremember. Rutherford was out of the hockey operations seat for an entire 39 days between when he stepped aside on 4/28/14 and got hired by the Pens on 6/6/14. The huge question was put on his hire not because he was out of the game for some length of time but for how he had run the Hurricanes into the ground with disastrous moves like the Semin contract extension, signing Tomas Kaberle to a 3-year contract, his inability to sign a backup goalie of even fair-to-middling talent, his declarations of "We like our group" when clearly there were moves to be made to improve the team, his idiotic attempt to replace Erik Cole with a power forward by committee of Anthony Stewart and Alexei Ponikarovsky, his stubborn insistence that a guy like Chad LaRose could be a first-liner, his notable trade acquisitions like Anson Carter, Alexandre Picard, Derek Joslin, and Marc-Andre Bergeron, blockbuster free agent signings like Ian White, Stefan Yelle, Patrick O'Sullivan and Tim Brent, and amazing draft talents like Philippe Paradis, Jamie McBain, Zac Dalpe, and Zach Boychuk.

Seems like you want to hang everything bad that has happened to the Hurricanes on Rutherford? I'm sure the Karmanos Family had something to do with Rutherford's last years there? I would also suspect if they turn it around in Raleigh you might give Rutherford some credit for helping to bring on his protege Ron Francis as the GM?

 

[Ogrezilla]

this thread title seems a bit extreme

 

[SETHROLLINS]

Lamoriello's run from the early 90's to 03' allows him to be in the conversation. He won three cups with extremely limited resources and without him the Devils aren't even in New Jersey today.

 

[gordie]

this thread title seems a bit extreme

I agree about the best GM all time stuff but Rutherford being inducted into the HHOF as a builder in future is on the table after these last two runs.

 

[Jumptheshark]

hi all

first time winning back 2 back stanley cups in an era where the most stress and constraints are put onto GMs

is he the best of all time?

Cheers,
Steve

add this to the silly thread list

he joined the pens in 2014
was crosby there? Malkin? sorry--walking into a team with two hall of famers and noth his goalies were also there already--he walked into a good deal

 

[gordie]

And the over the top Pittsburgh threads have begun.

And the over the top (insert team that wins back-to-back cups) threads have begun.

 

[Jumptheshark]

And the over the top (insert team that wins back-to-back cups) threads have begun.

we have had similier threads on hawks and kings as well

 

[Party Kane]

He made a great move in getting Kessel but other than that he inherited a stacked team that everyone knew could win the cup any given year

 

[Extra Texture]

Oh boy. The answer is no. As much as I love him for how he has remade the Pens, not even close.

Now, is he a very good GM? Hell yes. Was he being laughed at 3 years ago on this very forum for being a doddering old man who was past it? Also yes. He has made some fantastic moves worthy of huge praise. Kessel was one everyone lauds. The deals for Hagelin and Daley last year were brilliant. The Hornqvist deal might have been the start of the mental turnaround. In short, he got he right guys. There is a lot of crow to eat, but it doesn't make him the best GM ever.

Sullivan.

he played all those rookies, Murray, Sheary, Rust, Wilson, Kuhnhackl, Guentzel. this wouldn't have happened in 1000 years under Bylsma.

This. And these moves were also made possible by JR acknowledging his mistake and handing the reigns to a great coach. But Sully throwing youth into the equation was a huge part of it.

 

[DaveG]

Seems like you want to hang everything bad that has happened to the Hurricanes on Rutherford? I'm sure the Karmanos Family had something to do with Rutherford's last years there? I would also suspect if they turn it around in Raleigh you might give Rutherford some credit for helping to bring on his protege Ron Francis as the GM?

I think every canes fan can't stand the way that PK runs things here. But no, he had FAR less to do with the teams imploding, lack of depth, the terrible signings of guys like Semin and Kaberle, and failure to rebuild in any meaningful fashion until after the change in gm. That was all JR. Every last bit of it. If anything the free reign that pk gave JR here was an even bigger issue. He was about as big an absentee owner as it got in sports, and allowed things to get to the point of abysmal bordering on historic futility almost entirely due to giving JR too much leeway.

The way the team has been run under Francis is so completely different then it was under JR that its basically impossible to tell Ron was ever his agm. The patience he's shown and his strategy in building the team and knowing when to move on from players is a complete 180.

 

[TNT87]

No he is not.

 

[Ogrezilla]

He made a great move in getting Kessel but other than that he inherited a stacked team that everyone knew could win the cup any given year

big moves trading Sutter for Bonino, Perron for Hagelin and Scuderi for Daley too. And he got Rust and Sheary into the line-up.

He gave the team an identity. Just look at the roster at the start of 2015-2016 and the roster that won the Cup in 2016.

He's been great for the Pens. Certainly not the best of all time, but great.

 

[Flamer12]

Seriously????

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

He's good but let's not get ahead of ourselves...

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

No, but Sullivan is the best coach in the league.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Sam Pollock operated with no salary cap and against a smaller NHL that had to fight the WHA for player rights, which help weaken the other NHL opposition. Have you thought about that??

The notion that someone who was hired 3 years ago who inherited Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Matt Murray, Guentzel, among others is the GOAT of GMs is simply ludicrous.

Have you every thought about that??

 

[T REX]

No.

This hilarious. Is "something pens" best of all time?

What is next?

Are the hot dogs served at PPG the best hot dogs of all time?