Is Jim Rutherford the best GM of all time?

[LTIR]

Sam Pollock operated with no salary cap and against a smaller NHL that had to fight the WHA for player rights, which help weaken the other NHL opposition. Have you thought about that??

every era had its limitations.. if you are playing that card then Malkin >> Gretzky.

 

[Wolfpuck]

Yes. He masterfully constructed a perennial powerhouse in the Hurricanes before leaving them in such fantastic shape...

 

[MikeK]

Not even top 10

 

[Rockomax]

Sam Pollock operated with no salary cap and against a smaller NHL that had to fight the WHA for player rights, which help weaken the other NHL opposition. Have you thought about that??

The other GMs of the time worked within the same parameters, yet no one came close to Sam Pollock.

 

[gordie]

Not even top 10

Name the other 9. If Rutherford isn't in the top 10, he is getting closer. 1 cup with one franchise and back-to-back with another sure isn't average.

 

[Riptide]

Are we going to ignore that his former organization, Carolina, now has the longest playoff drought in hockey (8 seasons)?

In fairness to both Rutherford and Carolina, is that entirely on him? The struggles that a team like Carolina has are very very different then the struggles a team like Pittsburgh with 2 franchise centers will have - and that was even before them winning back to back cups. I mean for example - would Cullen have forgone retirement to be Carolina's #4C last season (15/16) for an 800k contract? We already know that Kessel would not have waived his NTC to go to Carolina (he wasn't waiving it for anyone).

I'm not saying he didn't make mistakes - he did. But I think the job of a GM for A) a struggling franchise (performance wise) and B) one that isn't loaded with star talent and C) one that isn't in a traditional hockey market is a hell of a lot harder then being the GM for a team like Pittsburgh with the star power that they have in the market that they're in.

It's things like this that give certain teams an advantage over others. Which is unfortunate because we've seen how passionate Carolina fans are and the quality of the market when there's a decent product on the ice. Hopefully they'll soon be back in the picture, because their fans deserve it.

 

[TOGuy14]

Pittsburgh fans are going to get a bad rep here pretty fast.

Winning back to back cups is a great accomplishment but that doesn't make Sullivan or Rutherford or their equipment manager the greatest of all time at their positions

In fairness to both Rutherford and Carolina, is that entirely on him? The struggles that a team like Carolina has are very very different then the struggles a team like Pittsburgh with 2 franchise centers will have - and that was even before them winning back to back cups. I mean for example - would Cullen have forgone retirement to be Carolina's #4C last season (15/16) for an 800k contract? We already know that Kessel would not have waived his NTC to go to Carolina (he wasn't waiving it for anyone).

I'm not saying he didn't make mistakes - he did. But I think the job of a GM for A) a struggling franchise (performance wise) and B) one that isn't loaded with star talent and C) one that isn't in a traditional hockey market is a hell of a lot harder then being the GM for a team like Pittsburgh with the star power that they have in the market that they're in.

It's things like this that give certain teams an advantage over others. Which is unfortunate because we've seen how passionate Carolina fans are and the quality of the market when there's a decent product on the ice. Hopefully they'll soon be back in the picture, because their fans deserve it.

So inheriting a roster of studs for a couple seasons is all the work of Rutherford and he is the GOAT, but driving Carolina into the ground for nearly a decade with bad contracts and drafting isn't really his fault. What?

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Rutherford had a comfortable retirement. I do believe he made plenty of money from being employed by Peter Karmanos during his days in Carolina away from Hockey operations. I believe he came out of retirement because he saw an opportunity to win in Pittsburgh and get his name in the Hockey Hall of Fame as a builder. I do believe this cup win will do just that.

He never retired. When he stepped down as GM, he remained as President/CEO of the team up until he decided to take the Pittsburgh job.

 

[Roboturner913]

LOL, no.

He ran the Hurricanes right into the ground, in case people forgot.

My take: He's an old-guard GM who is perfect for the Penguins right now. He'll keep the trains running on time and as long as the vet core of Crosby/Malkin/Kessel, etc. are playing at a high level he will add pieces and make moves to supplement that core and keep them competitive.

But he's unimaginative and gives very little thought to the long term. At some point in the future the play of that veteran core will fall off, but he'll refuse or fail to recognize it and he'll keep plugging holes with trades and FA's to stay competitive in the short-term while sacrificing the long term. I think he's also blinded by his loyalties sometimes both to coaches and players which compromises his ability to properly evaluate a situation.

 

[MikeK]

Name the other 9. If Rutherford isn't in the top 10, he is getting closer. 1 cup with one franchise and back-to-back with another sure isn't average.

Give your head a shake and wake up. Why are you giving him credit for a team whose key players we never even drafted nor developed under his regime? He was gifted this PITT team. No if ands or buts about it.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Not close to the best GM of all time... but huge props for getting Kessel. That move really put them over the top and he deserves huge credit for that.

 

[kk87]

hi

no

this killed me

 

[gordie]

He never retired. When he stepped down as GM, he remained as President/CEO of the team up until he decided to take the Pittsburgh job.

Not involved in hockey decisions means someone else is making those calls.

 

[gordie]

Give your head a shake and wake up. Why are you giving him credit for a team whose key players we never even drafted nor developed under his regime? He was gifted this PITT team. No if ands or buts about it.

Oh!!! I must be forgetting those cups won by the Pens in 2010,2011,2012,2013,2014 when they had some of the pieces but not all and it took Rutherford's hire to complete the back-to-back cup winning roster. Kessel. Hagelin, Schultz, Hornqvist, Cole, Cullen etc.... as examples.

 

[Mandar]

Sam Pollack?
Bill Torrey?
Jim Devellano?
Ken Holland?
Sather in his Oiler days?
Stan Bowman?
Your own Craig Patrick?
Lou Lamorello?

 

[gordie]

Sam Pollack?
Bill Torrey?
Jim Devellano?
Ken Holland?
Sather in his Oiler days?
Stan Bowman?
Your own Craig Patrick?
Lou Lamorello?

Stan Bowman? This is without his Dad's advice right??

 

[gorangers0525]

Sullivan.

he played all those rookies, Murray, Sheary, Rust, Wilson, Kuhnhackl, Guentzel. this wouldn't have happened in 1000 years under Bylsma.

It's amazing how simply playing your better players over "the vets" can separate you from the league.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Not involved in hockey decisions means someone else is making those calls.

Running the business side of the operation is also a far cry from "retirement." There's no shame in having misremembered how he came about being the Pens GM.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

In fairness to both Rutherford and Carolina, is that entirely on him?

A good chunk of it.

--Refusing to commit to full rebuild, and instead trying to put crap around Eric Staal and a broken Cam Ward;
--Terrible contracts (Gleason, Ruutu, Semin, Tverdovsky, Ward, other Ward, etc.)
--Trading picks to get rid of said terrible contracts
--**** poor drafting, Hurricanes drafting and development did a complete 180 when Francis took over that department as Assistant GM.

Basically he did in Pittsburgh what he did in Carolina: trade future assets for assets now. The difference being, Pittsburgh was building around Crosby, Malkin, Letang, MAF/Murray, while Carolina was building around Staal, Staal, Pitkanen/young Justin Faulk, and Cam Ward.

 

[double5son10]

Sam Pollock operated with no salary cap and against a smaller NHL that had to fight the WHA for player rights, which help weaken the other NHL opposition. Have you thought about that??

So only the opposition was weakened by the WHA? Montreal in the 70s lost to the WHA the following: Frank Mahovlich (HoFer), J.C.Tremblay (generally considered the best NA player not in the Hall), Marc Tardif (WHA all-time leader in goals & 2nd in pts), as well as good depth players like Rejean Houle, Marty Howe, Alain Cote, Dave Hunter and Gordie Roberts. Didn't matter, Pollock still built a dynasty.
Rutherford's done an outstanding job w/ the Pens (and the Canes), no question but two in a row hardly makes him the GOAT. Is Craig Patrick also the GOAT because he was was a two in a row GM in Pittsburgh?

 

[gordie]

Running the business side of the operation is also a far cry from "retirement." There's no shame in having misremembered how he came about being the Pens GM.

I don't care what he was doing. Sitting on his porch or having meetings with ownership. He wasn't making the hockey moves essential to a team's success and that's why a huge question was put on the hire when the Pen's President David Morehouse turned to him for help.

 

[Russian Factor]

I mean... probably not. But man does everything that dude touches turn to gold. He's been fortunate for sure but he's also been extremely shrewd. I was critical of the MAF decision and GMJR was right once again. MM gets hurt and MAF wins 9 of the 16 games needed to win the Cup. Then he waives his NMC for Vegas. Perfect all around.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

In fairness to both Rutherford and Carolina, is that entirely on him? The struggles that a team like Carolina has are very very different then the struggles a team like Pittsburgh with 2 franchise centers will have - and that was even before them winning back to back cups. I mean for example - would Cullen have forgone retirement to be Carolina's #4C last season (15/16) for an 800k contract? We already know that Kessel would not have waived his NTC to go to Carolina (he wasn't waiving it for anyone).

I'm not saying he didn't make mistakes - he did. But I think the job of a GM for A) a struggling franchise (performance wise) and B) one that isn't loaded with star talent and C) one that isn't in a traditional hockey market is a hell of a lot harder then being the GM for a team like Pittsburgh with the star power that they have in the market that they're in.

It's things like this that give certain teams an advantage over others. Which is unfortunate because we've seen how passionate Carolina fans are and the quality of the market when there's a decent product on the ice. Hopefully they'll soon be back in the picture, because their fans deserve it.

How did Pittsburgh get in that position in the first place? Luck played a significant role (Crosby), but so did good drafting. Who's ultimately responsible for Carolina's underwhelming draft record pre-2010 and thus the position the Canes have been in this decade?

My point was not to argue that he's a bad GM, just that's he's not the "best GM of all time." 5 playoff appearances in 20 years on the job in Hartford/Carolina speaks for itself. Market attractiveness and/or financial resources are not valid excuses for that.

 

[gordie]

So only the opposition was weakened by the WHA? Montreal in the 70s lost to the WHA the following: Frank Mahovlich (HoFer), J.C.Tremblay (generally considered the best NA player not in the Hall), Marc Tardif (WHA all-time leader in goals & 2nd in pts), as well as good depth players like Rejean Houle, Marty Howe, Alain Cote, Dave Hunter and Gordie Roberts. Didn't matter, Pollock still built a dynasty.
Rutherford's done an outstanding job w/ the Pens (and the Canes), no question but two in a row hardly makes him the GOAT. Is Craig Patrick also the GOAT because he was was a two in a row GM in Pittsburgh?

I never said he was the best of All Time. But Rutherford on these boards is looked down upon as a GM. He has turned that around and is destined for the Hockey Hall of Fame as an Executive. No doubt about that anymore.

 

[Brunomics]

I remember a guy that used to wear a bow-tie all the time that built a team responsible for 4 cups and 19 straight playoff series wins. Name is on the tip of my tongue......