Is Jim Benning the worst GM in franchise history?

[vanuck]

It should be easy to dig up then, correct?

Of course. Just search his post history. I'm literally telling you who posted it and where to look.

Posters here shouldn't have to constantly repost something every time a brand new account - especially ones who claim to have been around to see things from long before they even registered - pops up. See why people are suspicious of you?

So again, why would you need to dig it up if you've already been on here for so long? You just happened to miss all the Benning talk in one of the longest running debates on this board...? That's awfully convenient.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I don’t believe I’m misquoting you or taking you out of context.



This is the full sentence. According to you, not a single argument can be made for Benning. They have literally all been debunked.

Nothing in the rest of your post qualifies this as only being the case in specific circumstances.

Well thank you for posting my full sentence this time.

Now, prove me wrong. If my statement was so ridiculous as you claim, surely you wouldn’t have just left it at that.

 

[Canucko]

Well thank you for posting my full sentence this time.

Now, prove me wrong. If my statement was so ridiculous as you claim, surely you wouldn’t have just left it at that.

I did not misquote you. Anyhoo, my first claim would be that I believe Benning to be a good evaluator of amateur talent.

Has this point been argued? I’m sure it has. Has it been debunked. Not a chance.

Please take note of the fact that I distinguish from healthy debate and something being debunked.

 

[Melvin]

I literally have these bookmarked because I have had to post them so many times.

Bruins promote Benning, Sweeney (Boston Globe, July 15, 2007)

Jim Benning, formerly director of player personnel, was named assistant general manager, replacing Jeff Gorton, who was fired last month. Don Sweeney, who oversaw the camp, was named director of hockey operations and player development.
"They're both going to get expanded duties," said GM Peter Chiarelli. "Jim's area of expertise is player evaluation. He's going to oversee much of the operation from an assistant GM perspective. Donny's going to continue player development. He's been outstanding in that. Real outstanding. He'll be overseeing it more now and he'll be in the day-to-day operations."

Imagine believing that Benning is a guru at drafting but that he wasn't involved with drafting in Boston. The mind reels.

The man was the director of amateur scouting in Buffalo for a decade, spent a year in Boston as director of player perssonel and then moved on to AGM where Chiarelli described his "area of expertise" as player evaluation (read: scouting.)

Here are some things I clipped from the Boston Globe using my newspapers.com subscription.

In 2008, Jim Benning is mentioned as having personally interviewed Kyle Beach for the draft, along with director of amateur scouting Scott Bradley.

In 2010 he was the first person sent to the WJC ahead of everyone else in the FO:

Also in 2010, Chia when asked about if he was nervous about botching the 2010 pick that they got from the Leafs:

Note that Don Sweeney was also AGM at the time but he's never mentioned. Just Benning and the DAS.

In 2011, while the Canucks were facing the Bruins in the finals, Jim wasn't in Vancouver because he had to attend the combine in Toronto.

Interesting that Jim Benning wouldn't be with Chia and everyone else in Vancouver for games 1 & 2, but would instead be needed at the combine.

It's also interesting that he personally scouted RNH earlier in the season:

It's weird that most of the Bruins FO keeps going to places without Benning, who is instead off scouting amateurs and attending prospect combines and thing. You know, weird for someone who has no involvement with the drafting.

So, so weird.

 

[Canucko]

I literally have these bookmarked because I have had to post them so many times.

Bruins promote Benning, Sweeney (Boston Globe, July 15, 2007)



Imagine believing that Benning is a guru at drafting but that he wasn't involved with drafting in Boston. The mind reels.

The man was the director of amateur scouting in Buffalo for a decade, spent a year in Boston as director of player perssonel and then moved on to AGM where Chiarelli described his "area of expertise" as player evaluation (read: scouting.)

Here are some things I clipped from the Boston Globe using my newspapers.com subscription.

In 2008, Jim Benning is mentioned as having personally interviewed Kyle Beach for the draft, along with director of amateur scouting Scott Bradley.

View attachment 254729

In 2010 he was the first person sent to the WJC ahead of everyone else in the FO:

View attachment 254723

Also in 2010, Chia when asked about if he was nervous about botching the 2010 pick that they got from the Leafs:

View attachment 254725

In 2011, while the Canucks were facing the Bruins in the finals, Jim wasn't in Vancouver because he had to attend the combine in Toronto.

View attachment 254715
View attachment 254717

Interesting that Jim Benning wouldn't be with Chia and everyone else in Vancouver for games 1 & 2, but would instead be needed at the combine.

It's also interesting that he personally scouted RNH earlier in the season:

View attachment 254721

It's weird that most of the Bruins FO keeps going to places without Benning, who is instead off scouting amateurs and attending prospect combines and thing. You know, weird for someone who has no involvement with the drafting.

So, so weird.

Who are you responding to? I hope it’s not me - I never argued that Benning had no involvement with drafting.

 

[logan5]

Jack Gordon is by far the worst GM in Canucks history. Harry Neale 2nd worst.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I did not misquote you. Anyhoo, my first claim would be that I believe Benning to be a good evaluator of amateur talent.

Has this point been argued? I’m sure it has. Has it been debunked. Not a chance.

Please take note of the fact that I distinguish from healthy debate and something being debunked.

Okay and what is your evidence that’s he is a good evaluator of amateur talent? You made the claim, now back it up.

Keep in mind, the majority of draft picks a team makes has nothing to do with the GM. Also keep in mind Benning’s track record in Boston was quite pathetic. But I’ll wait for your evidence.

 

[logan5]

Everything the Canucks do is a team effort. That's very convenient that you can give Benning no credit for drafting but put all the blame on Benning for free agent signings, or not making the play-offs the last 4 years, which is a spill over effect from the last GM in charge giving him nothing to work with except 2 aging stars close to retirement.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Everything the Canucks do is a team effort. That's very convenient that you can give Benning no credit for drafting but put all the blame on Benning for free agent signings, or not making the play-offs the last 4 years, which is a spill over effect from the last GM in charge giving him nothing to work with except 2 aging stars close to retirement.

That’s because some of us are smart enough to understand that GM’s have very little to do with the draft. They’re more involved on the pro side of things, which happens to be the worst part about this team.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

I love logic and reason - I wish I read some of it on here. So far a lot of what I read is full of double standards and fallacies.

Benning has gutted the front office and downgraded the talent. His draft record is very poor because of x y z. Any good draft picks fell to his lap and was a result of his scouting staff and support staff.

I suppose this is different staff than the ones he gutted and downgraded?

I think he’s shown to be a fairly poor assessor of professional talent, and with that follows his overvaluing of players and their contracts. I also believe he has been below average, but am still willing to hold hope that he will turn this thing around. Why wouldn’t I. It’s not like my pissing in the wind will change a damn thing.

He’s still not the worst GM. The 70s and 80s won that battle by a large margin.

Starts post about how he loves logic and reason.

Ends post by comparing Benning (a singular GM) to "the 70s and 80s" (a twenty year era that doesn't single out a GM). Re-read the thread title and try again.

 

[Jyrki21]

This claim that resurfaces every so often that Benning wasn’t involved in the Bruins’ drafting before coming to Vancouver is some of the stupidest, revisionist, desperation crap that never occurred before the last couple of seasons. Like, it was all anyone talked about when he was hired, because we knew nothing else about him except that he wanted to trade Tyler Seguin.

 

[logan5]

That’s because some of us are smart enough to understand that GM’s have very little to do with the draft. They’re more involved on the pro side of things, which happens to be the worst part about this team.

You cannot pick and choose which part of the team you want to give Benning credit for.

Beside the fact that Benning is in charge of hiring the scouting staff, he also does scouting himself to see in person the probable first round selections. Obviously the first round is the most important round as these players are going to be the ones that bring the team the most success. About a third of team is made up of 1st rounders.

Jim Benning back from Swiss scouting trip

Bleary-eyed Canucks GM Jim Benning back from Swiss scouting trip

The team’s general manager is mapping out a way to squeeze in visits to several junior hockey rinks to get a first-hand look at the 2016 draft class

https://www.tsn.ca/hectic-road-trip-ahead-as-benning-begins-sizing-up-2016-draft-class-1.387461

Vancouver Canucks GM Jim Benning is in Europe this week to do some scouting

Vancouver Canucks: Jim Benning is wrong about European stereotypes

 

[MS]

How difficult is it to post a link to a media report corroborating what you have said?

How difficult is it for you to spend 30 seconds looking where I told you to look? I’ve already done this a bunch of times for brand-new soon-banned pro-Benning accounts and all it was was a trolling attempt to get me to waste my time and deflect away from the discussion at hand.

It’s a fact that a media member confirmed this. I’m not running back to re-post it every time it comes up. If you have some argument that goes against that, I’m all ears.

 

[MS]

Speculation ... and your opinion.

Your inability to process things that go against your worldview verges on the spectacular.

 

[MS]

I literally have these bookmarked because I have had to post them so many times.

Bruins promote Benning, Sweeney (Boston Globe, July 15, 2007)



Imagine believing that Benning is a guru at drafting but that he wasn't involved with drafting in Boston. The mind reels.

The man was the director of amateur scouting in Buffalo for a decade, spent a year in Boston as director of player perssonel and then moved on to AGM where Chiarelli described his "area of expertise" as player evaluation (read: scouting.)

Here are some things I clipped from the Boston Globe using my newspapers.com subscription.

In 2008, Jim Benning is mentioned as having personally interviewed Kyle Beach for the draft, along with director of amateur scouting Scott Bradley.

View attachment 254729

In 2010 he was the first person sent to the WJC ahead of everyone else in the FO:

View attachment 254723

Also in 2010, Chia when asked about if he was nervous about botching the 2010 pick that they got from the Leafs:

View attachment 254725

Note that Don Sweeney was also AGM at the time but he's never mentioned. Just Benning and the DAS.

In 2011, while the Canucks were facing the Bruins in the finals, Jim wasn't in Vancouver because he had to attend the combine in Toronto.

View attachment 254715
View attachment 254717

Interesting that Jim Benning wouldn't be with Chia and everyone else in Vancouver for games 1 & 2, but would instead be needed at the combine.

It's also interesting that he personally scouted RNH earlier in the season:

View attachment 254721

It's weird that most of the Bruins FO keeps going to places without Benning, who is instead off scouting amateurs and attending prospect combines and thing. You know, weird for someone who has no involvement with the drafting.

So, so weird.

It boggles the mind that stuff like this still needs to be posted.

But when the entire argument from his supporters hinges around what a great scouting GM he is, the fact that he was in charge of a scouting department that generated the worst results in the NHL in his last job is something that you really really really don’t want to hear or accept.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I literally have these bookmarked because I have had to post them so many times.

Bruins promote Benning, Sweeney (Boston Globe, July 15, 2007)



Imagine believing that Benning is a guru at drafting but that he wasn't involved with drafting in Boston. The mind reels.

The man was the director of amateur scouting in Buffalo for a decade, spent a year in Boston as director of player perssonel and then moved on to AGM where Chiarelli described his "area of expertise" as player evaluation (read: scouting.)

Here are some things I clipped from the Boston Globe using my newspapers.com subscription.

In 2008, Jim Benning is mentioned as having personally interviewed Kyle Beach for the draft, along with director of amateur scouting Scott Bradley.

View attachment 254729

In 2010 he was the first person sent to the WJC ahead of everyone else in the FO:

View attachment 254723

Also in 2010, Chia when asked about if he was nervous about botching the 2010 pick that they got from the Leafs:

View attachment 254725

Note that Don Sweeney was also AGM at the time but he's never mentioned. Just Benning and the DAS.

In 2011, while the Canucks were facing the Bruins in the finals, Jim wasn't in Vancouver because he had to attend the combine in Toronto.

View attachment 254715
View attachment 254717

Interesting that Jim Benning wouldn't be with Chia and everyone else in Vancouver for games 1 & 2, but would instead be needed at the combine.

It's also interesting that he personally scouted RNH earlier in the season:

View attachment 254721

It's weird that most of the Bruins FO keeps going to places without Benning, who is instead off scouting amateurs and attending prospect combines and thing. You know, weird for someone who has no involvement with the drafting.

So, so weird.

This is hilarious....Jim Benning spotted scouting a player (in some cases Peter Chiarelli was also spotted)..Jim Benning spotted scouting a player one day before Peter Chiarelli...Is this meant to be some kind of 'gotcha' moment.?

 

[MS]

This is honestly like talking to a flat-earther.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Your inability to process things that go against your worldview verges on the spectacular.

This is honestly like talking to a flat-earther.

 

[logan5]

This is honestly like talking to a flat-earther.

You're right. What does Bennings time in Boston have anything to do with his time here. It's irrelevant.

 

[Canucko]

Okay and what is your evidence that’s he is a good evaluator of amateur talent? You made the claim, now back it up.

Keep in mind, the majority of draft picks a team makes has nothing to do with the GM. Also keep in mind Benning’s track record in Boston was quite pathetic. But I’ll wait for your evidence.

This is a ridiculous position to take. Benning is the general manager and is responsible for all hockey operations related activity. The fact that you need to qualify your question with such a disclaimer points to the fact that the Canucks have been decently successful and such an acknowledgement destroys your argument. Consequently you make an absurd claim in an attempt to discount recent successes.

Buffalo’s draft record during Benning’s employment was good. The Bruins drafting record was poor, and the Canucks drafting record has been good.

Benning is widely considered to be a strong scout in the hockey industry and I believe that is being illustrated in the last few years. Your “evidence” is all circumstantial whereby everything needs to be wrapped up just right to fit your narrative.

Since Benning has been the GM of the Canucks, and is solely responsible for hockey operations activity, their farm system has improved.

 

[Canucko]

This is honestly like talking to a flat-earther.

How delusional you must be.

Edit: Benning has a job as GM and was recently extended. You are literally the one arguing against reality. Aka a flat eather. “Benning is the worst ever and should be fired!!” Benning gets extended.

“The Earth is flat and cannot be round because reasons!!” Satellite take photos showing a spherical earth.

 

[MS]

View attachment 254777

You’ve been presented with :

- links confirming he was heading Boston’s amateur scouting department.

- quotes from Chiarelli describing how he was his right hand man in charge of player development.

- endless quotes from Benning from when he was - every year - Boston’s media point man for the draft.

- the fact that he was the only guy with a scouting background in Boston’s front office.

- evidence that he was consistently interviewing players alongside Boston’s DOS.

- evidence that he was consistently on amateur scouting missions while with Boston, even missing Cup Final games.

- evidence that nobody else in Boston’s front office was doing any of these things.

... and yet refuse to admit those bad Boston drafts are largely a product of Jim Benning. It’s just hilarious.

 

[Canucko]

How difficult is it for you to spend 30 seconds looking where I told you to look? I’ve already done this a bunch of times for brand-new soon-banned pro-Benning accounts and all it was was a trolling attempt to get me to waste my time and deflect away from the discussion at hand.

It’s a fact that a media member confirmed this. I’m not running back to re-post it every time it comes up. If you have some argument that goes against that, I’m all ears.

Why would I be banned? What have I said that’s offensive?

 

[Canucko]

You’ve been presented with :

- links confirming he was heading Boston’s amateur scouting department.

- quotes from Chiarelli describing how he was his right hand man in charge of player development.

- endless quotes from Benning from when he was - every year - Boston’s media point man for the draft.

- the fact that he was the only guy with a scouting background in Boston’s front office.

- evidence that he was consistently interviewing players alongside Boston’s DOS.

- evidence that he was consistently on amateur scouting missions while with Boston, even missing Cup Final games.

- evidence that nobody else in Boston’s front office was doing any of these things.

... and yet refuse to admit those bad Boston drafts are largely a product of Jim Benning. It’s just hilarious.

I have never discounted it. I am simply not ignoring his success with the Canucks and am (rightly) not placing all of his professional weight on his time in Boston. The irony is they won a cup in Boston - doubt any of you guys would give him an ounce of credit for that though. More double standards.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

Does going 50% (and I'm gifting you Hughes) in the top ten over five years and doing worse than virtually any veteran HFCanucks poster who does draft lists make you a draft guru?