Is hockey's passion gone for good? If so, how can it return?

Canadiens1958

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Like I said, they'd rather have 100 half-hearted fans than 10 passionated ones. A half-hearted fan count just as much in the ratings. In the long-term though, it's a risky move because you put yourself more at risk of negative black swan type of events.

Politicians - pandering to the lowest common denominator and religions - meek shall inherit the earth, knew this before hockey came on the scene.

It is about marketing. Both types of fans have money. Which one spends money on replica jerseys, caps and trinkets?
 
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BenchBrawl

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Politicians - pandering to the lowest common denominator and religions - meek shall inherit the earth, knew this before hockey came on the scene.

It is about marketing. Both types of fans have money. Which one spends money on replica jerseys, caps and trinkets?

Fair enough. I do wonder though, long-term, if too many fans follow hockey as some sort of fashion, they can turn their back on it and follow the next cool thing. Hardcore fans, or fans from historical markets like Montreal where hockey is cultural, will stay even if hockey goes back to 6 teams and decline in popularity.
 

Canadiens1958

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Fair enough. I do wonder though, long-term, if too many fans follow hockey as some sort of fashion, they can turn their back on it and follow the next cool thing. Hardcore fans, or fans from historical markets like Montreal where hockey is cultural, will stay even if hockey goes back to 6 teams and decline in popularity.

Toronto and the Raptors?
 

JianYang

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Reformat divisions, divisional teams play each other 8 times a season. Boom, guaranteed insanity compared to the boring crap we’ve been seeing recently.

Every Habs Leafs and Habs Bruins game actually meant more when they played 8 times a season. There would be epic home and home’s going on, crazy beefs happening that you knew would get resolved within the next few weeks, and all in all just more memorable games.

Now I don’t even know when the teams face off next anymore. Nor do I really care, every game has blended into the next. Boooring

Everyone was complaining when teams were playing 8 games. That's not coming back.

As for the OP, I actually find october to be the best regular season hockey of the season.

It's that perfect combination of teams trying to shake out the cobwebs, and where fatigue is mostly a non factor. It leads to entertaining games with lots of goals, and lead changes.

That toughness/physical aspect is not coming back to what it used to be. I can totally understand how that can lead many people to not enjoy the games as much as they used to, but I still find it engaging enough to follow my favourite team.

Where it's affected me is the casual viewing. Outside of my team, I am no longer compelled to watch regular season games, and its been that way for a few years now.
 
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scott clam

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Well, last years playoffs we saw a lot of "passion" and "intenisty" so I would think that is still there, waiting, for when it really matters....
 

The Panther

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I didn't realize people complained when teams were playing one another 8 times a year. I mean, I can see maybe reducing it to 7 or whatever now that the League is bigger. But I want more rivalries! The yardstick for me is the dead-and-buried Edmonton - Calgary rivalry. It's absolute insanity how infrequently these teams play one another. Recently they play once early in the season (though not this season), and then they don't play again until late January or something, by which point one team is already out of the playoff hunt, so it's meaningless. I mean, it's completely stupid beyond belief.

Are other Leagues this stupid? The last time time Edmonton played Calgary in the playoffs was 28 years ago. Islanders and Rangers once (I think) in 35 years. The only one that still seems to happen often is Montreal - Boston, but even that has gone cold lately (partly because Montreal hasn't been good). Let's not even think about Montreal - Toronto, which nobody alive can remember seeing.

I agree with the poster (above) who said League scoring is good now. Indeed, it's just about perfect again, right now. Goalies are no longer dominant, and they are often beaten on wrist shots from the wings again, which is wonderful. The offensive side of things is just about perfect right now. I have no complaints. (This is remarkable because it reached its low point of boredom only about five years ago.)

The passion, though...? I don't think political correctness has anything to do with it. Rather, the matter is that salaries are so high, there's too much money at stake, and NHL players are now "career-ists". This is the inevitable by-product of high salaries. Pro-players are now ultra-expensive commodities that franchises need to earn money. Nobody is willing to risk the health and wellness of those commodities.

But I do think it's possible to have a bit more manly rough-stuff and better rivalries. They have to find a way to let natural rivals play one another more often.
 

LeBlondeDemon10

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Regarding division rivals playing each other 8 times: Baseball's current system has division rivals playing each other 19 times. There is much talk about reducing this and developing a more balanced schedule. This will prevent good teams from beating up on bad teams (see Yankees and Orioles or Twins and Tigers) and artificially creating teams that are really paper tigers (see this year's Cleveland Indians who played below .500 against teams with a winning record, yet won 93 games). I think this will be good for baseball. So I think a more balanced schedule in hockey, like the current, is better overall.
 
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Jumptheshark

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The passion is not gone, people are just remembering games from their youth more fondly. It's natural and happens in every sport.

Similarly, the definitive best year of Saturday Night Live was the year that you were 12 years old.


my reaction as well

my guess the OPS team is struggling and so his love for the game sinks
 

The Panther

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As a reminder of the stupid side of old-skool hockey, check out the penalty box-score from the 2nd period of the Oilers @ Penguins game from January 19th, 1980:

2nd Period
01:21PITRuss AndersonElbowing2 min
01:21EDMDave LumleyRoughing2 min
01:21EDMDave LumleyFighting5 min
01:21PITRuss AndersonUnsportsmanlike conduct2 min
01:21PITRuss AndersonFighting5 min
07:33EDMDave SemenkoFighting5 min
07:33EDMDave SemenkoGame misconduct10 min
07:33PITOrest KindrachukRoughing - double minor4 min
07:33PITOrest KindrachukFighting5 min
07:33PITOrest KindrachukGame misconduct10 min
07:33PITOrest KindrachukGame misconduct10 min
07:33EDMDave SemenkoFighting5 min
07:33EDMMark MessierGame misconduct10 min
07:33EDMEddie MioGoalie leave crease2 min
07:33PITGreg MillenGoalie leave crease2 min
07:33EDMDave LumleyLeaving penalty box2 min
07:33EDMDave LumleyFighting5 min
07:33EDMDave LumleyGame misconduct10 min
07:33EDMDave LumleyGame misconduct10 min
07:33EDMMark MessierGame misconduct10 min
07:33EDMMark MessierFighting5 min
07:33PITPat HughesFighting5 min
07:33PITRuss AndersonLeaving penalty box2 min
07:33PITRuss AndersonFighting5 min
07:33PITRuss AndersonGame misconduct10 min
07:33PITRuss AndersonGame misconduct10 min
07:33PITRuss AndersonGame misconduct10 min
07:33PITKim ClacksonHi-sticking2 min
07:33PITKim ClacksonLeaving penalty box2 min
07:33PITKim ClacksonFighting5 min
07:33PITKim ClacksonGame misconduct10 min
07:33PITKim ClacksonGame misconduct10 min
07:33EDMCam ConnorFighting5 min
07:33EDMCam ConnorGame misconduct10 min
07:33PITPat HughesGame misconduct10 min
11:58EDMLee FogolinHooking2 min
13:34PITRandy CarlyleFighting5 min
13:34PITRandy CarlyleRoughing2 min
13:34EDMBrett CallighenFighting5 min
13:34EDMBrett CallighenRoughing2 min
17:13PITGreg MaloneFighting5 min
17:13EDMColin CampbellFighting5 min
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

And this was a game between a 1st year "expansion" team and a fairly bad team. They were not rivals of any sort.

That second period must have taken three hours to play...
 

mrhockey193195

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One of the big side effects of the salary cap has been increased amounts of player movement, especially amongst 3rd & 4th liners. I think a lot of the best rivalries in years past were assisted by the fact that the non-skill guys (in addition to the superstars) on those teams were constant presences whose tenures lasted 5+ seasons. The hatred built up over time. Today, guys shuffle in and out so quickly and change allegiances so quickly that that level of hatred isn't possible. It's primarily only the superstars that stick around for a long time. Taking one step further, we actually see a lot more players play for both sides of the rivalry (e.g., Brian Boyle going to NJ, Max Talbot going to PHI, Penner playing for both LA and ANA, etc.).

Think about Detroit (Maltby, McCarty, Draper, Lapointe, etc.) & Colorado (Yelle, Messier, Hinote, Miller, etc.) - the fact that all of those guys, in addition to Sakic, Forsberg, Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, etc., were around for many years helped that rivalry stay alive. It only died towards the mid 00s when the turnover was complete.
 

holy

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Even if you think 8 is too much, I feel like 6 isn’t asking for too much. The fact that the Habs play the Bruins only 1 more time than they play the Blue Jackets and only twice more than they play the Oilers makes me sick.

6, 3 and 1 for the respective season series I can stomach. Mmm mmm I can stomach that like I ain’t eat in 3 days baby.
 

solidmotion

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One of the big side effects of the salary cap has been increased amounts of player movement, especially amongst 3rd & 4th liners. I think a lot of the best rivalries in years past were assisted by the fact that the non-skill guys (in addition to the superstars) on those teams were constant presences whose tenures lasted 5+ seasons. The hatred built up over time. Today, guys shuffle in and out so quickly and change allegiances so quickly that that level of hatred isn't possible. It's primarily only the superstars that stick around for a long time. Taking one step further, we actually see a lot more players play for both sides of the rivalry (e.g., Brian Boyle going to NJ, Max Talbot going to PHI, Penner playing for both LA and ANA, etc.).

Think about Detroit (Maltby, McCarty, Draper, Lapointe, etc.) & Colorado (Yelle, Messier, Hinote, Miller, etc.) - the fact that all of those guys, in addition to Sakic, Forsberg, Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, etc., were around for many years helped that rivalry stay alive. It only died towards the mid 00s when the turnover was complete.
exactly what i was going to say, and i remember thinking it a lot in the early 10s when chicago had to jettison players like byfuglien, ladd, brouwer, bolland, etc., who had been key parts of the team's identity.
 

holy

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One of the big side effects of the salary cap has been increased amounts of player movement, especially amongst 3rd & 4th liners. I think a lot of the best rivalries in years past were assisted by the fact that the non-skill guys (in addition to the superstars) on those teams were constant presences whose tenures lasted 5+ seasons. The hatred built up over time. Today, guys shuffle in and out so quickly and change allegiances so quickly that that level of hatred isn't possible. It's primarily only the superstars that stick around for a long time. Taking one step further, we actually see a lot more players play for both sides of the rivalry (e.g., Brian Boyle going to NJ, Max Talbot going to PHI, Penner playing for both LA and ANA, etc.).

Think about Detroit (Maltby, McCarty, Draper, Lapointe, etc.) & Colorado (Yelle, Messier, Hinote, Miller, etc.) - the fact that all of those guys, in addition to Sakic, Forsberg, Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, etc., were around for many years helped that rivalry stay alive. It only died towards the mid 00s when the turnover was complete.
Damn, this post is accurate af!!! Crazy, all I could think of was how 3rd and 4th liners used to be fan favs and now they’re just mocked so hard lmao.

Honestly, I wonder if the money is worth it for these guys. Like some extra millions just to watch the league morph so much from what they grew up idolizing.

I’m not even gonna lie I feel like hockey is at it’s all time lamest rating amongst younger people.

100% my high thoughts.
 

Big Phil

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Last year's Stanley Cup Final had THE HIGHEST TV RATINGS in NBC HISTORY for Game 5!

NBC. The network that was televising the Rangers-Bruins game when news of the Pearl Harbor bombing came on in 1941.

The NHL's huge popularity in Vegas and quick support in Seattle also shows the game today is liked a lot.

If there is a lack of passion, wouldn't the popularity of the game suffer?

There is less fighting and dirty play, but that's not the same thing.

I think that part of it is those fans didn't see hockey when players would actually get mad at each other. It is like a new fan being introduced to Wayne Gretzky in 1996. He says, "Hey, this guy is pretty good isn't he?" The ones who saw him in the 1980s obviously see him differently and know better.

I am hopeful that we can steer the passion of hockey back onto the ice though. Hopeful.

The passion is not gone, people are just remembering games from their youth more fondly. It's natural and happens in every sport.

Similarly, the definitive best year of Saturday Night Live was the year that you were 12 years old.

I wasn't 12 in the early 1990s, but that was the best era of SNL!

Okay, I see your point a bit. There are movies you watch that maybe don't have the same magic as before. I don't know, a great movie usually withstands the test of time. Halloween is still probably the best overall horror movie of all-time, I still get that "feel" to it when I watch it. I have as much fun at Disney World as a grown man as I did when I first went at 10 years old. Your imagination has changed but the fun hasn't.

For the longest time hockey had this. It was fun, the players were colourful. They said things off the cuff and you just laughed, you didn't analyze it for 2 hours on the internet.

I think hockey can get that "fun" back in it.
 
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Big Phil

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As a reminder of the stupid side of old-skool hockey, check out the penalty box-score from the 2nd period of the Oilers @ Penguins game from January 19th, 1980:

2nd Period
01:21PITRuss AndersonElbowing2 min
01:21EDMDave LumleyRoughing2 min
01:21EDMDave LumleyFighting5 min
01:21PITRuss AndersonUnsportsmanlike conduct2 min
01:21PITRuss AndersonFighting5 min
07:33EDMDave SemenkoFighting5 min
07:33EDMDave SemenkoGame misconduct10 min
07:33PITOrest KindrachukRoughing - double minor4 min
07:33PITOrest KindrachukFighting5 min
07:33PITOrest KindrachukGame misconduct10 min
07:33PITOrest KindrachukGame misconduct10 min
07:33EDMDave SemenkoFighting5 min
07:33EDMMark MessierGame misconduct10 min
07:33EDMEddie MioGoalie leave crease2 min
07:33PITGreg MillenGoalie leave crease2 min
07:33EDMDave LumleyLeaving penalty box2 min
07:33EDMDave LumleyFighting5 min
07:33EDMDave LumleyGame misconduct10 min
07:33EDMDave LumleyGame misconduct10 min
07:33EDMMark MessierGame misconduct10 min
07:33EDMMark MessierFighting5 min
07:33PITPat HughesFighting5 min
07:33PITRuss AndersonLeaving penalty box2 min
07:33PITRuss AndersonFighting5 min
07:33PITRuss AndersonGame misconduct10 min
07:33PITRuss AndersonGame misconduct10 min
07:33PITRuss AndersonGame misconduct10 min
07:33PITKim ClacksonHi-sticking2 min
07:33PITKim ClacksonLeaving penalty box2 min
07:33PITKim ClacksonFighting5 min
07:33PITKim ClacksonGame misconduct10 min
07:33PITKim ClacksonGame misconduct10 min
07:33EDMCam ConnorFighting5 min
07:33EDMCam ConnorGame misconduct10 min
07:33PITPat HughesGame misconduct10 min
11:58EDMLee FogolinHooking2 min
13:34PITRandy CarlyleFighting5 min
13:34PITRandy CarlyleRoughing2 min
13:34EDMBrett CallighenFighting5 min
13:34EDMBrett CallighenRoughing2 min
17:13PITGreg MaloneFighting5 min
17:13EDMColin CampbellFighting5 min
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
And this was a game between a 1st year "expansion" team and a fairly bad team. They were not rivals of any sort.

That second period must have taken three hours to play...

But it would have been incredibly fun to watch it unfold, especially live. Reminds me of that Ottawa/Philly game back in 2004 when everyone just fought and got kicked out. People remember these games, they are entertaining. No one can deny they are entertaining. Even in 1980, those sorts of periods didn't happen very often above either. This wasn't normal of course, but the fact that it COULD happen and things could boil over made it that much more fun. I remember not too long ago you'd watch a game and you could see things heating up just by watching it. You knew things would explode eventually. Now? Meh.
 

Big Phil

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I think the internet and cell phones can be blamed a lot as well. Our attention spans are gone. We complain online about everything. I think the Tkachuk vs. Doughty rivalry is a good thing. Let them hate each other. They don't like each other? Good. We used to like that sort of thing back in the day. People think "hate" in hockey is like hate in real life. Hate in sports is healthy. It creates banter back and forth. It used to be that you hated Habs fans but you could still grab a beer with them and talk hockey at the end of the day. But during a game? You hated them and their team.

Go to an NFL game and there is still an incredible amount of animosity. Maybe it goes too far, I've had debris thrown at me at an NFL game, but you can't deny that there is passion. Part of it is division rivals play each other twice a year, then maybe in the playoffs. You hate the other team. I hate the Buffalo Bills for reasons that are based on how I was treated as an opposing fan at their game. It almost boiled over to the physical side (not my doing) and that isn't right, but you know what, I will talk about that game forever with fond nostalgia.

Hockey needs that again. We've missed that sort of thing and I think that lack of passion on the ice translates into the stands.

This wasn't too long ago but I remember a January 2007 game between the Leafs and Pens. I was in Pittsburgh for it. Pens won 8-2. The third period was just a gong show of fights. Lots of fun to watch. Some fans got drunk and in the 3rd period from the upper bowl you could see a lot of fights in the stands. Now, I think fighting in the stands is going too far, but was it fun to watch as a fan? Yeah, it was. This was a time when Penguins fans were a little nervous about re-locating if you can remember. It was tense, but it was fun.
 

Pominville Knows

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I have been chasing players for 11 years now and have noticed them change their demeanor since a number of years back. They are less talkative and distant if nothing else, and almost robot like overall.
This even though no apparent foe like mentality has appeared in that many.
 
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rfournier103

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The 1980s playoff format of the first two rounds guaranteed to be division opponents did a lot to pour gasoline on quite a few fires. Does anyone think the Bruins - Canadiens rivalry was great because of anything that ever happened in January? Hatred is fed in the playoffs. Always has been.

Look at the 2011 Stanley Cup Final. If the Bruins and Canucks played more than twice a year, you better believe there would have been a bitter rivalry born of that Final.

If we want genuine hatred to return, we need more intra-divisional matchups in the playoffs.
 
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Zegras Zebra

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Big Phil I feel like you make some variation of this thread every year (I'm not complaining though). Unfortunately I think the intensity of the game is gone, probably forever in the pro game. Classic team rivalries are not important for the teams and players only a subset of fans who argue on Twitter. Some of the reasons for this include:

1. The players are too buddy buddy. They all know each other from junior, national teams, other NHL teams, golfing in the summer, commercials, etc. I don't think a player is going to fight as hard against his friend he trains with in the off season with Gary Roberts as hard as a player in the 50's who knew if he didn't he could be replaced by someone who would. The amount of movement of players from franchise to franchise doesn't help because there is less desperation to play as hard and not be replaced by someone in the minors. Also they make too much money now so they won't risk getting hurt on a 50/50 play and potentially lose money on their next contract.

2. Teams want players who are some combination of speed/ skill/ size most likely in that order. The days are long gone of some guy making the team out of camp just by fighting a few guys in pre-season. NHL players have been protected from physical play since they were kids so I don't think they are going to start now that they made the NHL playing they way they were raised. NHL coaches system play also generally require players who are fast and skilled and rely less on hard hits and intimidation like in the 1990's or earlier. The last time I remember enforcers playing an actual role in a hockey game was around 2010 when the media was starting to question the impact of hits to the head and fighting in the game and the effect on players after they retired.

3. True division rivals don't play as often and that may well be a factor, but I think rivalries start in the playoffs. Look at Winnipeg/ Nashville a few years ago. Sure it may not have been the most physical series but it was certainly the most intense/ entertaining series of that playoffs and it resulted in everyone in Winnipeg hating both the Preds and P.K. Subban (even though he's not a Pred) to this day. I don't think raising the amount of divisional games back to 8 will help this, but more back to backs might because of the small amount of time to cool off. Season ticket holders and fans of out of market teams would want to see every team play each other twice a year, once at home to either see their team play or see more variety of teams playing each other.

4. The advancement of science in looking at brain injuries supports the league, fans, and players of being more aware of hits to the head and fighting resulting in a reduction of each and also a reduction of intense moments in a hockey game. Unfortunately as hard as you try you just can't argue with science, and these violent exciting moments aren't going to comeback to help make the game more exciting.

If you still want to see intense rivalries and players truly hating their opposition, try to watch your local junior A or junior B team. Their leagues usually have 12 teams or less, play each other a lot of times a year, have historical team and city rivalries to add to the hatred. Finally since most of the players are 20 and younger they are more likely to act irrationally and start a fight or throw a questionable hit because of their lack of maturity.
 

Big Phil

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Big Phil I feel like you make some variation of this thread every year (I'm not complaining though). Unfortunately I think the intensity of the game is gone, probably forever in the pro game. Classic team rivalries are not important for the teams and players only a subset of fans who argue on Twitter. Some of the reasons for this include:

1. The players are too buddy buddy. They all know each other from junior, national teams, other NHL teams, golfing in the summer, commercials, etc. I don't think a player is going to fight as hard against his friend he trains with in the off season with Gary Roberts as hard as a player in the 50's who knew if he didn't he could be replaced by someone who would. The amount of movement of players from franchise to franchise doesn't help because there is less desperation to play as hard and not be replaced by someone in the minors. Also they make too much money now so they won't risk getting hurt on a 50/50 play and potentially lose money on their next contract.

2. Teams want players who are some combination of speed/ skill/ size most likely in that order. The days are long gone of some guy making the team out of camp just by fighting a few guys in pre-season. NHL players have been protected from physical play since they were kids so I don't think they are going to start now that they made the NHL playing they way they were raised. NHL coaches system play also generally require players who are fast and skilled and rely less on hard hits and intimidation like in the 1990's or earlier. The last time I remember enforcers playing an actual role in a hockey game was around 2010 when the media was starting to question the impact of hits to the head and fighting in the game and the effect on players after they retired.

3. True division rivals don't play as often and that may well be a factor, but I think rivalries start in the playoffs. Look at Winnipeg/ Nashville a few years ago. Sure it may not have been the most physical series but it was certainly the most intense/ entertaining series of that playoffs and it resulted in everyone in Winnipeg hating both the Preds and P.K. Subban (even though he's not a Pred) to this day. I don't think raising the amount of divisional games back to 8 will help this, but more back to backs might because of the small amount of time to cool off. Season ticket holders and fans of out of market teams would want to see every team play each other twice a year, once at home to either see their team play or see more variety of teams playing each other.

4. The advancement of science in looking at brain injuries supports the league, fans, and players of being more aware of hits to the head and fighting resulting in a reduction of each and also a reduction of intense moments in a hockey game. Unfortunately as hard as you try you just can't argue with science, and these violent exciting moments aren't going to comeback to help make the game more exciting.

If you still want to see intense rivalries and players truly hating their opposition, try to watch your local junior A or junior B team. Their leagues usually have 12 teams or less, play each other a lot of times a year, have historical team and city rivalries to add to the hatred. Finally since most of the players are 20 and younger they are more likely to act irrationally and start a fight or throw a questionable hit because of their lack of maturity.

I will admit I was pleased to see some fireworks in the games tonight (Saturday). It can still happen, and when it does it is entertaining still. Calgary and L.A. tonight, hey, I love player rivalries, the Tkachuk vs. Doughty thing. That used to be the norm. So it can still be there, that hatred. But you are right about some things that I don't think we can reverse. The familiarity of the players with each other. Too buddy-buddy. I don't know how that will change. Paul Henderson in his book mentioned that during warm ups after he became a Leaf Gordie Howe was on the ice stretching near him and he asked how wife and daughters were doing. Henderson said he thought Howe was genuine, and he probably was as they were teammates a long time, but he still never turned his back to him on the ice. To me that is how it should be. I don't care if you grab a beer with your old teammate after the game, but on the ice it should be business, they should still be the enemy and in the way of you winning.

People complain about the playoff format, I don't. I just would change it in one way. Go the old 1980s route with the divisions going 1 vs. 4 and 2 vs. 3 and then winners playing each other. Then the two division leaders in the conference final. I know it is sort of that way right now, but slightly different with the wild cards. Just think of some of the best postseason memories we have on these boards, how many of them happened in the 1980s and early 1990s with that format? Like someone said above, why do you think Montreal and Boston had such a rivalry? It wasn't based on playing each other in their division 8 times. It was the playoffs. They could play each other more than 4 times though, not 8, but 5-6 possibly. The NFL gets this right, I don't know why the NHL doesn't.

I think there will always be room for an enforcer on the team though, even today. He has to play of course, but someone like Tom Wilson, Ryan Reaves, Milan Lucic, etc. It was only a brief era in NHL history when a guy was on a team only to fight. And by that I mean someone who had a long career. Even in the 1970s you had to play. Dave Schultz had his role but he still scored. Bob Probert too. Somewhere in the 1990s, maybe with over expansion, that idea came in to give a roster spot to a guy who only could drop the gloves. Don Cherry himself has always said he never liked it when a guy played "4 minutes a game" just to fight. His Bruins never had that, he had a tough team but they could score too. So that should tell you something.

I really don't know the solutions other than the old playoff format and emphasize home vs. home games in back to back nights. You can't get players off of social media anymore or light a fire under them if they don't want to.
 

JianYang

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Sep 29, 2017
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my reaction as well

my guess the OPS team is struggling and so his love for the game sinks

"Passion" might not be the best word, but I think what the OP is getting at is that there is less dislike between teams these days, and that's one of the things that made the NHL so engaging as a fan.

The NHL has done some good things for the product over the last few years, but that dislike factor has eroded.
 
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@Big Phil ... In terms of the type of "passion" that old heads like us loved about the game... yes... those days are gonzo.

We'll never again see wars like the Battle of Quebec, Rags vs. Isles, the Battle of Alberta, or the Broad Street Bullies vs. [insert victim here].

We'll never wake up and open Twitter to a feed full of thousands hyping up "Probert vs. Domi II" tonight at MSG.

Even games that are loaded with passion and hatred from whistle to whistle are long gone. The rivalry between Matthew Tkachuk and Drew Doughty looks like infants playing in a sandbox compared to the wars between Eric Lindros and Scott Stevens or Tie Domi vs. Ulf Samuelsson.

Teams don't have the same personalities on the bench these days. Those personalities create passion. Guys like Domi, Nilan, Clark, Marchment, Twist, Simon, Messier, Lindros, Tikkanen, etc. are gone and not returning.

Today, the players are walking brands and moneymakers bringing in tens of millions of dollars. Many of them are mercenaries who have "bros" on rival teams. You see it in warm-ups, players are chumming it up with the opponent... laughing, talking, setting up post game beers.

There are a few "fun" games a week these days, but it's speed and skill that creates the glimpses of fun. However, back in the day, your favorite team's game that night was an "event." You knew there were going to be hits, fights, intensity, goals, passion, hatred. It was must-see TV. Now, not so much.
 

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
31,703
4,146
@Big Phil ... In terms of the type of "passion" that old heads like us loved about the game... yes... those days are gonzo.

We'll never again see wars like the Battle of Quebec, Rags vs. Isles, the Battle of Alberta, or the Broad Street Bullies vs. [insert victim here].

We'll never wake up and open Twitter to a feed full of thousands hyping up "Probert vs. Domi II" tonight at MSG.

Even games that are loaded with passion and hatred from whistle to whistle are long gone. The rivalry between Matthew Tkachuk and Drew Doughty looks like infants playing in a sandbox compared to the wars between Eric Lindros and Scott Stevens or Tie Domi vs. Ulf Samuelsson.

I agree for sure. It seems back in the day it didn't need to be manufactured either. Claude Lemieux nailed Draper and every Wings/Avs game for the next near decade was based on that one incident. March of 1997, yeah, that was passion between those two teams. Even Shanahan, a rather new recruit to the team at that time knew about the rivalry and clotheslines Patrick Roy at centre ice. This was just 22 years ago, but if that happened today the fans would still love it but the minority of people - namely the frosted tips in the media - would be the one to wag their finger. 22 years ago these guys were just drowned out and everyone was like "Yeah, yeah, whatever". And that was the end of it.

In Phil Esposito's book he recalls a time he was chatting with Wayne Cashman in pregame warm ups when he was a Ranger and John Ferguson came and punched Espo right in the back saying "Talk to him after the game." That stuff was real. It made hockey more fun knowing there was animosity.

I just don't understand how animosity has been buried. This is literally what has led to less physicality and fighting or even just anger. It is more corporate out there. Claude Lemieux once ignited a bench clearing brawl in warm ups - in the playoffs - in 1987. That wasn't that long ago. It is a 180 since then and not in a good way.
 
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golfortennis

Registered User
Oct 25, 2007
1,878
291
Go to an NFL game and there is still an incredible amount of animosity. Maybe it goes too far, I've had debris thrown at me at an NFL game, but you can't deny that there is passion. Part of it is division rivals play each other twice a year, then maybe in the playoffs. You hate the other team. I hate the Buffalo Bills for reasons that are based on how I was treated as an opposing fan at their game. It almost boiled over to the physical side (not my doing) and that isn't right, but you know what, I will talk about that game forever with fond nostalgia.

See, that isn't passion. That is delusion. Do these people think the players are going to take them out for a drink because they "represented"? There is no reason to make someone attending a sporting event to fear for their safety just because they happen to be wearing an item with the visiting team's logo on it. A little good natured ribbing, sure, but getting in someone's face? Pouring drinks on them? And you "hate the Buffalo Bills" for how you were treated. When was this? How many players are still on that team now?

You're enabling, defending, and almost promoting idiocy.

Sorry, no. I'm not going to let this go unchallenged. You're usually a level-headed poster, so to say you will about the time you nearly got into an altercation at a sporting event with nostalgia is quite surprising. There are any number of things wrong with that scenario, yet you are positing that this is something good?

Maybe I'm just an old curmudgeon, but you're simply explaining why the list of reasons people don't bother going to the game anymore continues to grow.
 
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