Is Evgeny Malkin a generational talent?

[bambamcam4ever]

If Malkin played on a different team this thread would be so different. Call me biased if you want, but Geno is the 2nd best forward in the league. Sid, Geno, and Ovy will all go down as all time greats. You can get bogged down with semantics all you want, but those 3 have pretty much have taken turns dominating the league ever since they've joined it. I consider them all generational talents, but it's a matter of opinion really.

Since Malkin's first season in the NHL:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&year_min=2007&year_max=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&birth_country=&franch_id=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=S&handed=&c1stat=games_played&c1comp=gt&c1val=200&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=points_per_game

 

[Voight]

Mchappymeal did not show it in the worls jrs, I don't think he is in the same league as Crosby/Ovie/Malkin?Stamkos.

11 points in 7 games (tied for tournament lead) wasn't showing it? Don't forget this was his first time competing in hockey in over 6 weeks and he was coming off a broken hand.

lol at ovechkin being a generational talent.

the guy has not scored more then 80 points in the last 5 years.

09-10 - 109 pts
10-11 - 85 pts
11-12 - 65 pts
12-13 - 56 pts in 48 GP (would've been 80 plus if it was a full season)
13-14 - 79 pts (one freaking secondary assist from 80 points)

SO thats two legit 80 point seasons, one that would've been 80 if it was a full season and one that would've been an 80 point year and he not been injured and missed 5 games.

In other words, you're wrong.

 

[velodim]

No,.he is just a good player

 

[Plub]

No,.he is just a good player

Then I assume you don't think there is a generational talent in the NHL today?

Or apparently, two this year.

And no, Malkin isn't generational talent. He's a superstar, a player who can take games over, etc but not enough to be considered one of the top handful of players of all-time.
People don't even talk about Jagr as a 'generational talent' and I'm not so sure if Malkin should be considered better than Jagr.

So, what you are saying is Jagr is currently the only generational player in the NHL? I could actually buy into that.

 

[T1K]

Since Malkin's first season in the NHL:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&year_min=2007&year_max=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&birth_country=&franch_id=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=S&handed=&c1stat=games_played&c1comp=gt&c1val=200&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=points_per_game

Yup that pretty much confirms it. Ovi's dominance early on is ignorant to ignore (and to be honest in the first 3-4 or so year Ovi probably gets the edge over Sid) Sid has been extremely consistent PPG-wise over his whole career, and really has over-shadowed Geno when really Geno has surpassed Ovi. Basically if anyone thinks Ovi should be a generational talent, so should Geno. IMO if Sid is considered a generational talent then Geno should be too because the difference is minimal.

 

[Xavier Laflamme*]

In my opinion, there are 4 generational talents currently playing in the NHL currently. Those players are Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin and Jagr. I'm on the fence about adding Lundqvist and Chara to that list as well. Just my opinion. I could be missing guys as well.

 

[Fantomas]

Since Malkin's first season in the NHL:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&year_min=2007&year_max=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&birth_country=&franch_id=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=S&handed=&c1stat=games_played&c1comp=gt&c1val=200&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=points_per_game

Notice the point shares.

 

[daver]

Yup that pretty much confirms it. Ovi's dominance early on is ignorant to ignore (and to be honest in the first 3-4 or so year Ovi probably gets the edge over Sid) Sid has been extremely consistent PPG-wise over his whole career, and really has over-shadowed Geno when really Geno has surpassed Ovi. Basically if anyone thinks Ovi should be a generational talent, so should Geno. IMO if Sid is considered a generational talent then Geno should be too because the difference is minimal.

PPG difference is not minimal. It's a 15 point per year difference.

 

[namttebih]

The term is getting watered down. Franchise player, IMO, is a guy who's going to be the best on your franchise. Generational talent means a guy who's the best in the NHL. Not just "one of the best." It's a term we can use to separate the Gretzkies, Lemieuxs, Orrs, Howes, and even Crosbies from the rest.

Once in a generation.

Ummm Gretzky and Lemieux are part of the same generation. While Wayne's hayday was slightly before Mario was in the league, he was still playing some pretty damn good hockey in the late 80s, early 90s.

 

[penguins2946*]

Notice the point shares.

Point shares are the dumbest stat in hockey, even more so than +/-

 

[mariemarie]

In my opinion, there are 4 generational talents currently playing in the NHL currently. Those players are Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin and Jagr. I'm on the fence about adding Lundqvist and Chara to that list as well. Just my opinion. I could be missing guys as well.

yes its another category apart for d and goalie. Its harder to rate d and g cause it takes longer to develop but i guess a guy like ekblad will be one.

 

[livewell68]

Point shares are the dumbest stat in hockey, even more so than +/-

Point shares are dumb, +/- is dumb, adjusted stats are dumb, raw point totals are dumb.

Only PPG is good. Am I getting it right now?

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Since Malkin's first season in the NHL:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&year_min=2007&year_max=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&birth_country=&franch_id=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=S&handed=&c1stat=games_played&c1comp=gt&c1val=200&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=points_per_game

Shows how clearly those three have been a tier above everyone else over their careers.

 

[Xavier Laflamme*]

Point shares are dumb, +/- is dumb, adjusted stats are dumb, raw point totals are dumb.

Only PPG is good. Am I getting it right now?

No, you're not.

 

[Pens1566]

So your saying that Crosby and Malkin never play with each other?

I think you are missing the point and looking at semantics for relief.

No. Not "never". But in order for your point to be valid, it would have to be at some % approaching what Ovechkin/Backstrom do. Which it isn't.

 

[livewell68]

No, you're not.

So what is right then?

Being considered a better player because you scored a golden goal in a tournament where you were rather average? Crosby has never dominated an International tournament, Malkin has.

If Crosby had been the player with the Calder, Conn Smythe, 2 Art Ross trophies, 1 Hart, 1 Lindsay, 3 1st Team All-Star selections and been a Hart finalist two more times, the Hfboards contingent would have proclaimed him the Second coming.

I have never seen any fans more biased.

Malkin is without a doubt a Generational talent and there isn't much separating him and Crosby apart from PPG.

 

[livewell68]

No. Not "never". But in order for your point to be valid, it would have to be at some % approaching what Ovechkin/Backstrom do. Which it isn't.

Check this out. In 2008-09, Malkin and Crosby were on the ice together and shared the second most points between a duo, (only the Sedins were ahead).

This list shows the best duos and was compiled and used on hfboards.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=972809

1 2008-09 VAN Daniel Sedin and Henrik Sedin 243 58 23.87%
2 2008-09 PIT Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin 258 53 20.54%

Although Ovechkin and Backstrom play on the same line more often, Malkin and Crosby's time together is being vastly underplayed here.

In comparison, Backstrom and Ovechkin have never had a number in the 20% or higher.

at the posters trying to downplay Ovechkin's ability to score on his own and trying to chalk it up to Backstrom being a superior playmaker.

This is nowhere near being a situation like Thornton passing to Cheechoo or even Adam Oates passing to Brett Hull. It obviously takes skill to put the puck in the net so not disrespecting either Cheechoo or Hull but neither of them had the ability to make something out of nothing the way Ovechkin has been doing his whole career.

Overall I would say Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby have been equal in terms of where they stand in career value but I will say this; the level Ovechkin was playing at between 2005 and 2010 is a level very few have ever gotten to.

I would say his peak has been only equaled or surpassed by Gretzky, Howe, Orr, Lemieux, Jagr, Esposito, Lafleur, Bossy, Hasek and Dryden and that's about it.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

So what is right then?

Being considered a better player because you scored a golden goal in a tournament where you were rather average? Crosby has never dominated an International tournament, Malkin has.

If Crosby had been the player with the Calder, Conn Smythe, 2 Art Ross trophies, 1 Hart, 1 Lindsay, 3 1st Team All-Star selections and been a Hart finalist two more times, the Hfboards contingent would have proclaimed him the Second coming.

I have never seen any fans more biased.

Malkin is without a doubt a Generational talent and there isn't much separating him and Crosby apart from PPG.

Why would crosby need that trophy case when he has a superior one right now? Also both have dominated a WC tournament

 

[SherogoesHAM]

Is there a historical stat of consistently for points? Like if Malkin played in 82 games, he had a point in 61 of those games. I feel as though Malkin would be incredibly high.

 

[livewell68]

Why would crosby need that trophy case when he has a superior one right now? Also both have dominated a WC tournament

Why do I even bother responding to you? Go reread the poster I was responding to.

Also I would say it's subjective as to which players has had the better trophy case.

Yet only Malkin has had his dominance lead to a Gold Medal, Crosby got his team a 4th place finish. I'm just trying to point out the hypocrisy of some posters on here.

When Crosby wins the Olympic Gold it's "because he scored the Golden Goal" (when he wasn't the best player on either Team Canada) while Malkin has been the best on pretty much every Russian team he's been on by a large margin.

 

[K Fleur]

So what is right then?

Being considered a better player because you scored a golden goal in a tournament where you were rather average? Crosby has never dominated an International tournament, Malkin has.

If Crosby had been the player with the Calder, Conn Smythe, 2 Art Ross trophies, 1 Hart, 1 Lindsay, 3 1st Team All-Star selections and been a Hart finalist two more times, the Hfboards contingent would have proclaimed him the Second coming.

I have never seen any fans more biased.

Malkin is without a doubt a Generational talent and there isn't much separating him and Crosby apart from PPG.

Crosby was absolutely dominant in the 06 world championships. Canada didn't win, but that had a lot more to do with them having Marc Denis in net...

 

[livewell68]

Is there a historical stat of consistently for points? Like if Malkin played in 82 games, he had a point in 61 of those games. I feel as though Malkin would be incredibly high.

Ask CzechYourMath, he was talking about earlier that every player in the modern era to win the Art Ross minus the lockout shortened season have all recorded at least a point in 60 games or more. Crosby will be below that number by a fair margin this season if he somehow ends up winning the Art Ross.

 

[livewell68]

Crosby was absolutely dominant in the 06 world championships. Canada didn't win, but that had a lot more to do with them having Marc Denis in net...

Which goes back to the whole argument that people use against Ovechkin (he never led his team to a Cup) or for a Malkin & Ovechkin vs Crosby argument (how Crosby has 2 Olympic Golds and the two Russians have none).

 

[penguins2946*]

Peak Malkin is better than peak Jagr. Just wanted to throw that out there.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Why do I even bother responding to you? Go reread the poster I was responding to.

Also I would say it's subjective as to which players has had the better trophy case.

Yet only Malkin has had his dominance lead to a Gold Medal, Crosby got his team a 4th place finish. I'm just trying to point out the hypocrisy of some posters on here.

When Crosby wins the Olympic Gold it's "because he scored the Golden Goal" (when he wasn't the best player on either Team Canada) while Malkin has been the best on pretty much every Russian team he's been on by a large margin.

Crosby is the youngest player in WC history to win the scoring tile at 18. Scoring 8 goals and 16 points in 9 games...