Is Ekblad #1 on the Sabres board?

[ZZamboni]

With all the alleged offers flying around, it wouldn't surprise me if the first 3 or 4 picks don't move at all.

AE
SR
SB
LD

 

[Fly Boy]

Kopitar?

I think you should go over and read that again.

 

[Sabretip]

If Sabres take Ekblad then Myers is out the door.

100% agree - while I don't think Murray will shop him aggressively, I do think he'll see Myers as much more expendable.

Maybe, but Myers still brings something no one else on the team or in the system does. .

Such as....? Ristolainen and Zadorov may be a few inches shorter but each have the mobility and reach that Myers does yet both play far more physically to their size. They also each possess a better, heavier shot than Myers. Plus, the apparent offensive skill that Myers flashed in his rookie year seems now to be more of an aberration than a norm - the visions of Myers growing into an offensive contributor like Chara or Pronger seem remote at best.

While we don't know how mentally tough either Ristolainen or Zadorov will be, we do know that Myers more often than not has had problems keeping his confidence or handling adversity.

 

[Ruckus007]

They do? News to me.

Just off the top of my head, in recent years we have Seguin, Jeff Carter (x2), Mike Richards, Jordan Staal (unique circumstance admittedly), JVR, Nash, James Neal, Bobby Ryan, Kovalchuk as players all in the same age-range and contract status that I would think the Sabres would be interested in. (I know people are going to dig apart each individual player and trade I'm mentioning here. Whatever, such is HF. My point is that forward targets will be available).

Again, identity and fit are the crucial question, IMO, but in terms of supply, I'm not worried that those moves will be out there.

EDIT: I lied. I looked up Kovalchuk's age to make sure he fit.

What?
We want someone of the Toews/Kopitar/Bergeron ilk......

Okay.


In the Ekblad scenario, don't you think Murray could sit on his pile of gold until the player he wants and the terms he likes are available.

Or, as I'm told, since they'll probably be pretty bad this year, they can get that player in 2015?

 

[Jame]

Just off the top of my head, in recent years we have Seguin, Jeff Carter (x2), Mike Richards, Jordan Staal (unique circumstance admittedly), JVR, Nash, James Neal, Bobby Ryan, Kovalchuk as players all in the same age-range and contract status that I would think the Sabres would be interested in. (I know people are going to dig apart each individual player and trade I'm mentioning here. Whatever, such is HF. My point is that forward targets will be available).

so mostly wingers and goal scorers... not a franchise carrying center (aside from MAYBE Seguin)....

not to mention, only the LA moves led to a cup, and that was acquiring guys in support roles.... already having Kopitar in place.

In the Ekblad scenario, don't you think Murray could sit on his pile of gold until the player he wants and the terms he likes are available.

Trade Acquisitions are usually the "final piece" moves... rarely the building block move.

Or, as I'm told, since they'll probably be pretty bad this year, they can get that player in 2015

True

But 2 of them would've put us in a much better position.

 

[Ruckus007]

so mostly wingers and goal scorers... not a franchise carrying center (aside from MAYBE Seguin)....

not to mention, only the LA moves led to a cup, and that was acquiring guys in support roles.... already having Kopitar in place.

A quick history...

I do worry that trading D for F would be easier in theory than in practice.

Just look at the Howard and Jeremy dream this morning of Myers+_____ for the 3rd pick. I think that is much better in theory than it will be if the Sabres make that offer to the Oilers.

If the Sabres end up with Ekblad, I'm not all that worried that there won't be a D for F trade out there; young forwards of the ilk the Sabres would want get moved almost every single season. Obviously the concern would be making the right deal but that will always be the case.

Additionally, if the Sabres end up with Ekblad, time is still on Murray's side. There would be no immediate pressure to move anybody until the deal he wants comes along. Heck, even if Ehrhoff wants out and that gets accommodated, there can still be another deal centered around one of Myers/Ristolainen/Zadorov/Ekblad/Pysyk*/McCabe* out there somewhere.

*I'm of the opinion these guys wouldn't be centerpieces of such a deal, but for these purposes I'm lumping all the desirable defensemen together.

They do? News to me.

All I stated was that I believe the opportunity to make a D-for-F trade will available, should the Sabres wish to pursue it. The market will determine if the availability matches the (Sabres') demand. Your other comments about LA's moves and positions etc, are all attempts to start an argument about a point I'm not making.

Trade Acquisitions are usually the "final piece" moves... rarely the building block move.

Eh, maybe, maybe not. If only I'd written...

Additionally, if the Sabres end up with Ekblad, time is still on Murray's side. There would be no immediate pressure to move anybody until the deal he wants comes along.

True

But 2 of them would've put us in a much better position.

I vehemently disagree and am going to spend the next three pages explaining why.

 

[Ruckus007]

Top 3 calibre forwards only get moved if there are serious questions about them or the team that drafted them has a brain cramp.

I missed this one earlier, sorry JimBob. My response is, of course that's true, teams don't trade those kind of players unless there's a (potentially bad) reason. Maybe it will work out or not, but to get back to the Ekblad point, if they take Ekblad over the forward, I hope part of that justification is that a downstream trade will bring back a forward who is/will be better than what they think Bennett or Draisaitl will be.

 

[Jame]

A quick history...


All I stated was that I believe the opportunity to make a D-for-F trade will available, should the Sabres wish to pursue it. The market will determine if the availability matches the (Sabres') demand. Your other comments about LA's moves and positions etc, are all attempts to start an argument about a point I'm not making.

Oh, you were just stating that D can be traded for F
my bad


the context of the D for F trade... under the "take Ekblad" scenario... is that the D for F trade fills the need that passing on the Centers at the top of the draft would've filled.

come on now

 

[Ruckus007]

Oh, you were just stating that D can be traded for F
my bad


the context of the D for F trade... under the "take Ekblad" scenario... is that the D for F trade fills the need that passing on the Centers at the top of the draft would've filled.

come on now

Yes, that's precisely what I'm stating.

You are welcome to try to frame my statement post hoc any way you wish and argue with yourself under the guise that it is with me, who am I to stop you? But it doesn't mean you're actually arguing with me over what I've written.

 

[Jame]

Yes, that's precisely what I'm stating.

You are welcome to try to frame my statement post hoc any way you wish and argue with yourself under the guise that it is with me, who am I to stop you? But it doesn't mean you're actually arguing with me over what I've written.

Sorry, I interpreted your statement as if it was made under the same context as Jimbo's statement (to which you were replying)

 

[Jim Bob]

I missed this one earlier, sorry JimBob. My response is, of course that's true, teams don't trade those kind of players unless there's a (potentially bad) reason. Maybe it will work out or not, but to get back to the Ekblad point, if they take Ekblad over the forward, I hope part of that justification is that a downstream trade will bring back a forward who is/will be better than what they think Bennett or Draisaitl will be.

And my concern is that while there are some examples of top 2/3 Fs getting moved down the road, it is never the guys that work out really well.

Guys like Malkin, Toews, etc. never move.

What would worry me about taking Ekblad at 2 is that the Sabres would never get to move a D for a F that is equivalent to the Best Forward Available to them at 2 whether it is SR, SB, or LD.

 

[Jame]

And my concern is that while there are some examples of top 2/3 Fs getting moved down the road, it is never the guys that work out really well.

Guys like Malkin, Toews, etc. never move.

What would worry me about taking Ekblad at 2 is that the Sabres would never get to move a D for a F that is equivalent to the Best Forward Available to them at 2 whether it is SR, SB, or LD.

one of us interpreted your position correctly

 

[Ruckus007]

Sorry, I interpreted your statement as if it was made under the same context as Jimbo's statement (to which you were replying)

Yes, emphasizing the the "practice" part of "better in theory than in practice" is about what trades might be available, not if trades may be available (see response to tsujimoto)

one of us interpreted your position correctly

I'm laughing. This is me laughing. Ha hahahahaha....

 

[Ruckus007]

And my concern is that while there are some examples of top 2/3 Fs getting moved down the road, it is never the guys that work out really well.

Guys like Malkin, Toews, etc. never move.

What would worry me about taking Ekblad at 2 is that the Sabres would never get to move a D for a F that is equivalent to the Best Forward Available to them at 2 whether it is SR, SB, or LD.

Sure, I agree there. A team isn't prone to move a young, talented forward they like unless they think they have a reason to. To me the distinction is in your last line where I'm open to the possibility that they can get a return on a defenseman trade equal or better to Bennett or Draisaitl (you added Reinhart but I'll omit him as I'd be surprised if the Sabres selected Ekblad over Reinhart).

EDIT: To use a current thread as an example, I wouldn't want the end result of an Ekblad selection to be (only) Gagner for Pysyk, but since time is on Murray's side right now anyway, he could easily stand pat with all those D-men through next year's draft and see how/if the organization's priorities change at that point.

 

[Paxon]

Such as....? Ristolainen and Zadorov may be a few inches shorter but each have the mobility and reach that Myers does yet both play far more physically to their size. They also each possess a better, heavier shot than Myers. Plus, the apparent offensive skill that Myers flashed in his rookie year seems now to be more of an aberration than a norm - the visions of Myers growing into an offensive contributor like Chara or Pronger seem remote at best.

While we don't know how mentally tough either Ristolainen or Zadorov will be, we do know that Myers more often than not has had problems keeping his confidence or handling adversity.

No they don't

 

[Heraldic]

No they don't

Yep. Myers dynamics are exceptional even excluding his size. Zadorov might have similar rushing abilities, but he's not exactly a smooth skater. Risto still has a lot to do with his skating.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Buffalo has a ways to go to assemble a Cup contending forward corps if they go Ekblad.

You can't pencil Grigs or Armia into anything right now, I'm not sold on Girgensons' defense as an NHL center because he's like 12, Larsson might not be anything more than a supplementary defensive zone start guy, Compher is too far out to project without sounding like a jackass, etc.

Even if Reinhart is David Krejci, he's still a dude who gets his 60 points by winning his matchup who can go off in the right circumstances. That's one-half of a Cup contending top six, now all you need is a checking center.

Meanwhile on the backend, you need one dominant guy and three complimentary goal preventing pieces. We already have three silver bullets of varying potency in Risto, Zadorov and Pysyk, and all of those guys reasonably project to top four guys on contenders at least. Plus McCabe and whatever Myers ends up being.

If we take Ekblad with this pick, Murray better know he's going bananas. We can't afford to pin our hopes at forward entirely on 2015.

 

[enthusiast]

Say with a bit of razzle-dazzle Buffalo walks out of this draft with Ekblad, Barbashev, and Ho-Sang without moving one of next year's firsts/ehrhoff/myers/etc. How do we feel about that?

 

[Paxon]

Say with a bit of razzle-dazzle Buffalo walks out of this draft with Ekblad, Barbashev, and Ho-Sang without moving one of next year's firsts/ehrhoff/myers/etc. How do we feel about that?

With Barbashev you get another very good guy in the mix for the third line who could possibly be your #2 center or a top 6 winger, so you're still pinning your hopes on getting a key center next year, which is frankly very realistic, but still... If you get Reinhart (for example), you know you are locking in a good center for your top 6, whether he's elite or not.

I guess my point is it doesn't change a lot, because we do have guys like Compher and Girgensons who could be third line stalwarts, or could maybe be #2 centers or top 6 wigners. Barbashev is another guy in that mix, though he has a good deal more going on offensively than either of them. Ho-Sang is another boom/bust alongside Grigorenko or Armia, a guy you can't count on until he actually develops and solidifies himself.

If Ekblad is clearly the best guy on their board then they should take him -- I'd disagree with the assessment but not the decision. Independent of that they should trade up if they can, and Barbashev is a prime target in my book.

 

[DJB]

I said from the day Murray was hired for you guys, Eckblad is your #1, and Bennett #2.

We shall see. Sort of cheering for you guys right now. Hard not too.