Is Crosby still number 1?

[GlitchMarner]

So you basically used this thread for a meaningless rant.

I was agreeing with Tavares to Marner's assertion that Crosby overtook Ovechkin and then McDavid overtook Crosby, but it can see why that would strike a nerve for you.

 

[Tavares to Marner]

They don't play on Crosby's line. Crosby has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he needs help to put up points.

But I am glad you agree that Crosby had better stats though.

Usage my mate they don't have to be on Crosbys line

Plus Crosby spent half his career behind Ovi

 

[daver]

Usage my mate they don't have to be on Crosbys line

Plus Crosby spent half his career behind Ovi

How so?

 

[daver]

Usage my mate they don't have to be on Crosbys line

Great point. Crosby has carried many a player who was way down on his team's depth charts and still easily has the best PPG for his era and the best PPG for the whole 16/17 season.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'm not saying Matthews is better than Crosby...

FWIW, however, he did put up 4G, 1A in six games against the Caps in the 2017 playoffs, so it's not like he hasn't proven capable of producing in the playoffs or against good competition in the playoffs.

No, I’m aware of what he did his first year.

Again, I just think if we are going to call a guy the very best in the game, he has to have some kind of consistent track record of domination in the regular season and playoffs.

McDavid has proven he can be dominant in the regular season by winning b2b scoring titles, but Matthews has yet to show that. I think Matthews can get in the convo with McDavid soon, but me believing that doesn’t magically make it true until he actually shows us that he’s consistently above his peers.

 

[talitintti]

Crosby's ability to turn "nobodies" into good, effective NHL players is a huge thing in what makes him the best player of his generation, by far... but if Crosby scores 80 something points again, and you have young guys pacing for 105-110, again, you have to start thinking that he's been clearly surpassed by the new generation.

Crosby needs to have a big year to establish himself, imo.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Crosby's ability to turn "nobodies" into good, effective NHL players is a huge thing in what makes him the best player of his generation, by far... but if Crosby scores 80 something points again, and you have young guys pacing for 105-110, again, you have to start thinking that he's been clearly surpassed by the new generation.

Crosby needs to have a big year to establish himself, imo.

I think those days are over (Crosby putting up 100+). McDavid is too incredible and anyone following Crosby now knows he coasts through a couple dozen games or more during the regular season.

It’s just not possible/practical for him to try and keep up with a generational talent a decade his junior, if he wants anything left in the tank for the playoffs.

 

[Varan]

If OV was #1 prior to 2010 then Crosby has an even better case for #1 in the years after.

But let's see your list of #1 players since 2005.

crosby
ov
malkin
CM

 

[GlitchMarner]

How so?

He hasn't spent half his career behind him, but Ovechkin was better at some point in the 2000s.

Try to be completely objective...

Who is the better player?

2009:

79 GP: 56 G, 54 A, 110 P, +8
58 goal pace
CF%: 57.3%
CF% rel: 4.1%
50th in Selke voting
Hart, Rocket Richard and Pearson
1.50 PPG in the playoffs (11 G, 10A, 21 P, +10)

Versus...

77 GP: 33 G, 70 A, 103 P, +3
35 goal pace
CF%: 49.6%
CF% rel: 2.8%
Sixth in Hart voting
1.29 PPG in the playoffs (15 G, 16A, 31 P, +9)


How is it not clear who the better player is?

I mean, I'm sure you'll try to find some way to say it was Crosby or he was as good, but if you're going to say Crosby was better just because his team won the Cup, then why can't someone argue Ovechkin was better last season/is better now? They were close in the regular season and his team won the Cup (and beat PIT) in round two. Crosby had a higher PPG average in the playoffs.

I don't see very many people saying Ovechkin is better than Crosby right now (and I wouldn't say he is, either).

 

[authentic]

Ovechkin became better than Crosby after his high ankle sprain and no sooner IMO, which was the beginning of 2008 during the 2007-08 season. Then Crosby didn't take the title back until 2010-11. Peak for peak they were pretty equal (on a per game basis atleast), but for most of their careers Crosby has obviously been better.

 

[Plub]

He's still the best player. Crosby doesn't really go all in during the regular season, especially the start. But he's still better than Matthews and Mcdavid.

 

[Tweed]

Gretzky

And that's why McDavid isn't #1, and hasn't been #1. Right?

 

[BallardEra]

He's still the best player. Crosby doesn't really go all in during the regular season, especially the start. But he's still better than Matthews and Mcdavid.

I don't buy this for a minute. Sid is a fiercely competitive guy. It's normal for a player's PPG to decrease as they get older.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Ovechkin became better than Crosby after his high ankle sprain and no sooner IMO, which was the beginning of 2008 during the 2007-08 season. Then Crosby didn't take the title back until 2010-11. Peak for peak they were pretty equal (on a per game basis atleast), but for most of their careers Crosby has obviously been better.

That might make sense if OV wasn't better in 05/06.

 

[saffronleaf]

Hmm...let's see

1. Matthews
2. Tavares
3. Reilly
4. Marner
5. McDavid
6. Crosby

So no, he isn't even top 5.

wtf where's Nylander?

 

[GreatGonzo]

He's still the best player. Crosby doesn't really go all in during the regular season, especially the start. But he's still better than Matthews and Mcdavid.

I think those days are over (Crosby putting up 100+). McDavid is too incredible and anyone following Crosby now knows he coasts through a couple dozen games or more during the regular season.

It’s just not possible/practical for him to try and keep up with a generational talent a decade his junior, if he wants anything left in the tank for the playoffs.

People will go through such great lengths just to protect Crosby.

No, Crosby doesn’t “coast” or “not care” during the regular season. If he did, what does that say about the kind of player he is? Certainly doesn’t show a lot of value to his team if he can just play at a minimal level. People like to point out his last playoff run as “saving himself for the time that matters.”
Only to be completely oblivious to the fact that he riding a hot streak going into the playoffs.

Crosby has always been competitive. All you who watch him regularly SHOULD know this about him. He’s just trending downwards, which happens to players. Doesn’t mean he isn’t one of the best, but he’s only getting older and this new generation of players has only gotten stronger compared to recent years.

Crosby isn’t so good that he can “coast” to 85-90 point seasons. Especially when he is relied on so much for his offense.

 

[Turin]

I don't buy this for a minute. Sid is a fiercely competitive guy. It's normal for a player's PPG to decrease as they get older.

Every Penguins fan will tell you you’re wrong.

 

[Battle Lin]

matthews and mackinnon could pass him this season

 

[GlitchMarner]

He's still the best player. Crosby doesn't really go all in during the regular season, especially the start. But he's still better than Matthews and Mcdavid.

WTF? So he's better than McDavid because he doesn't try as hard?

 

[Turin]

He hasn't spent half his career behind him, but Ovechkin was better at some point in the 2000s.

Try to be completely objective...

Who is the better player?

2009:

79 GP: 56 G, 54 A, 110 P, +8
58 goal pace
CF%: 57.3%
CF% rel: 4.1%
50th in Selke voting
Hart, Rocket Richard and Pearson
1.50 PPG in the playoffs (11 G, 10A, 21 P, +10)

Versus...

77 GP: 33 G, 70 A, 103 P, +3
35 goal pace
CF%: 49.6%
CF% rel: 2.8%
Sixth in Hart voting
1.29 PPG in the playoffs (15 G, 16A, 31 P, +9)


How is it not clear who the better player is?

I mean, I'm sure you'll try to find some way to say it was Crosby or he was as good, but if you're going to say Crosby was better just because his team won the Cup, then why can't someone argue Ovechkin was better last season/is better now? They were close in the regular season and his team won the Cup (and beat PIT) in round two. Crosby had a higher PPG average in the playoffs.

I don't see very many people saying Ovechkin is better than Crosby right now (and I wouldn't say he is, either).

Using CF% comparing the most high volume shooter in history against a center on a team coached by Mike Therrien is a real bastardized use of stats.

 

[GlitchMarner]

People will go through such great lengths just to protect Crosby.

No, Crosby doesn’t “coast” or “not care” during the regular season. If he did, what does that say about the kind of player he is? Certainly doesn’t show a lot of value to his team if he can just play at a minimal level. People like to point out his last playoff run as “saving himself for the time that matters.”
Only to be completely oblivious to the fact that he riding a hot streak going into the playoffs.

Crosby has always been competitive. All you who watch him regularly SHOULD know this about him. He’s just trending downwards, which happens to players. Doesn’t mean he isn’t one of the best, but he’s only getting older and this new generation of players has only gotten stronger compared to recent years.

Crosby isn’t so good that he can “coast” to 85-90 point seasons. Especially when he is relied on so much for his offense.

Who gives a flying f*** if he "coasts" or not? If he can't actually play the best, then he's not the best.

And since when is it a good thing to not give it your all? If this was some Euro star, Cherry would be ripping him a new one and fans/posters wouldn't be defending his "coasting."

 

[Turin]

Literally every good player over the age of 25 coasts through parts of an 82 game season. Crosby mostly started last year. It doesn’t “protect” him (what a juvenile perspective) it just means that he’s not lost his talent and he’s simply too old to fly around the ice every second day and still be where he wants to be when the game matters. Most modern athletes have realized this.

 

[BallardEra]

Sid sent in on a breakaway:

"Nah, I'm not feeling it this game. I'll just dump it into the corner and make a line change."

 

[GlitchMarner]

Using CF% comparing the most high volume shooter in history against a center on a team coached by Mike Therrien is a real bastardized use of stats.

The facts are players voted Ovechkin the best that season, he finished higher in Hart voting, he had better stats, he was far better at goal scoring, he had better advanced stats, he had a higher PPG in the playoffs, and he even finished higher in Selke voting. He was more physical as well.

What's your argument/evidence that Crosby was better? That you and other Penguin/Crosby fans say he was?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

People will go through such great lengths just to protect Crosby.

No, Crosby doesn’t “coast” or “not care” during the regular season. If he did, what does that say about the kind of player he is? Certainly doesn’t show a lot of value to his team if he can just play at a minimal level. People like to point out his last playoff run as “saving himself for the time that matters.”
Only to be completely oblivious to the fact that he riding a hot streak going into the playoffs.

Crosby has always been competitive. All you who watch him regularly SHOULD know this about him. He’s just trending downwards, which happens to players. Doesn’t mean he isn’t one of the best, but he’s only getting older and this new generation of players has only gotten stronger compared to recent years.

Crosby isn’t so good that he can “coast” to 85-90 point seasons. Especially when he is relied on so much for his offense.

Speaking the truth is now “going to great lengths to protect Crosby?”

You are delusional if you think he goes out there playing his ass off every game now in the regular season.

Anyone who has followed his career can clearly see he isn’t flying around every game and he flat out admitted that before last season.

He said he has to pace himself, that it’s difficult to get up for the regular season grind.

Once again, another poster gets “offended” that Crosby isn’t capable of playing balls to the walls hockey all year if he wants something left for the playoffs.

Damn Crosby getting older and being human.