Is Bettman avoiding NBC or is NBC avoiding Bettman?

[Fenway]

CBC was allowed to use the Cup as a prop in Washington

NBC asked for the same and request was denied

Ed Snider not being around might be part of it

 

[viper0220]

CBC was allowed to use the Cup as a prop in Washington

View attachment 123851


NBC asked for the same and request was denied

Ed Snider not being around might be part of it

I did not know this, this is kind of big.

 

[Fenway]

I did not know this, this is kind of big.

One thing is clear, the NHL is unhappy about something with NBC but nobody knows exactly what.

 

[Llama19]

One thing is clear, the NHL is unhappy about something with NBC but nobody knows exactly what.

Based on the ratings difference between NBC's over-the-air channel and their NBCSN cable channel...could that be part of this unhappiness?

 

[LeafsNation75]

CBC was allowed to use the Cup as a prop in Washington

View attachment 123851


NBC asked for the same and request was denied

Ed Snider not being around might be part of it

Has NBC ever had the Cup on their set, because I know it's something CBC has done for many years prior to this year.

 

[joelef]

It dosent matter what station its on the NHL is horrible at marketing product and still a gate driven league after 100 years. Espn nor Fox is going to help that.

 

[Trizent]

Based on the ratings difference between NBC's over-the-air channel and their NBCSN cable channel...could that be part of this unhappiness?

Umm, NHL signed contract for 2 SCF games on NBCSN every year, this is nothing new, nor is it some kind of bait and switch by NBC. It was negotiated from the start to happen.

PS Ratings are up this year.

 

[BigFatCat999]

The TV contract ends in 2020-2021...A return to ESPN, who has been hemorrhaging deals, I miss the FOX days.

 

[KevFu]

NHL decided not to send players to the PyeongChang Olympics The same PyeongChang Olympics that NBC pays billions for the right to broadcast

All the world leagues of soccer except MLS plays their season from September to May, Olympics are in July.
All the world leagues of basketball play their seasons from October to June, Olympics are in July.
All the world leagues of hockey play their seasons from October to June. Olympics are in.... February.

There's 308 events in the Summer Olympics and 102 in the Winter Olympics. So many sports WANT to be an Olympic sport that the IOC put a cap on the number of sports because 308 events is pushing it to the limits (or beyond).

Yet, the list of Summer Olympic sports includes a plethora of sports that are played INDOORS, that could easily just move to the Winter Olympics: Weight Lifting, Table Tennis, Karate, Judo, Taekwondo, Handball, Indoor Volleyball, Track Cycling, Badminton, Boxing, Fencing.

Winter requires FIVE ice arenas: Two for hockey, two for speed skating & figure skating, one for Curling. Very few bid on the Winter Olympics for that reason. You've gotta build ice arenas you really don't need to have the Winter Olympics.

Beijing is going to be a rare Olympic host that has had Summer and Winter Olympics. They have 13 indoor arenas they used for the Summer Olympics. They're going to use TWO of them for the Winter Olympics.

Move some Summer Indoor sports to the Winter, and move hockey to the Summer Olympics.
Cities HAVE plenty of 4,000 seat venues for small indoor sports. They don't have five ice arenas.

Los Angeles 2028 could ADD hockey to the Summer Olympics by using Staples and Honda Center for hockey, shifting some basketball to UCLA's Pauley Pavilion and USC's Galen Center, and shuffling the events slated for USC/UCLA to the smaller arenas at Long Beach, Fullerton, Irvine, Northridge or Cal State LA.


The issue isn't "Why didn't the NHL send its players to the Winter Olympics?" The issue should be "Why is Olympic Hockey played during the professional season when all the other pro sports are at the Olympics of their off-season?"

 

[Ernie]

I doubt the NHL gets much of an increase in their TV deal.

The idea behind the big TV sports contracts was that they would keep the cable networks from bleeding subscribers due to cord cutting.

But subscribers are leaving anyhow, and major sports leagues are now facing the prospect of no access to people under 40 while sports networks are losing money on their TV deals.

Meanwhile TV streaming services are rapidly expanding. If the NHL wants to avoid losing a generation of viewers it needs to create a digital service with no blackouts.

 

[AmericanDream]

I doubt the NHL gets much of an increase in their TV deal.

The idea behind the big TV sports contracts was that they would keep the cable networks from bleeding subscribers due to cord cutting.

But subscribers are leaving anyhow, and major sports leagues are now facing the prospect of no access to people under 40 while sports networks are losing money on their TV deals.

Meanwhile TV streaming services are rapidly expanding. If the NHL wants to avoid losing a generation of viewers it needs to create a digital service with no blackouts.

playoff ratings are the highest overall in 3 years...cord cutting seems not to be affecting it.

regular season numbers need to be improved which is probably what Bettman is pissed about because NBC simply promotes very little of the NHL during the week or through the regular season...missed potential and opportunity there that the playoffs have been showcasing. Promote the damn product, give it solid lead ins and it will far exceed what NBC paid for it, which it already has.

chord cutting or not, the next deal will be double at a minimum.

 

[Trizent]

Live TV is believed to be more DVR proof which is why sports and things like WWE are getting huge increases in their TV deals.

 

[SabresSharks]

All the world leagues of soccer except MLS plays their season from September to May, Olympics are in July.
All the world leagues of basketball play their seasons from October to June, Olympics are in July.
All the world leagues of hockey play their seasons from October to June. Olympics are in.... February.

There's 308 events in the Summer Olympics and 102 in the Winter Olympics. So many sports WANT to be an Olympic sport that the IOC put a cap on the number of sports because 308 events is pushing it to the limits (or beyond).

Yet, the list of Summer Olympic sports includes a plethora of sports that are played INDOORS, that could easily just move to the Winter Olympics: Weight Lifting, Table Tennis, Karate, Judo, Taekwondo, Handball, Indoor Volleyball, Track Cycling, Badminton, Boxing, Fencing.

Winter requires FIVE ice arenas: Two for hockey, two for speed skating & figure skating, one for Curling. Very few bid on the Winter Olympics for that reason. You've gotta build ice arenas you really don't need to have the Winter Olympics.

Beijing is going to be a rare Olympic host that has had Summer and Winter Olympics. They have 13 indoor arenas they used for the Summer Olympics. They're going to use TWO of them for the Winter Olympics.

Move some Summer Indoor sports to the Winter, and move hockey to the Summer Olympics.
Cities HAVE plenty of 4,000 seat venues for small indoor sports. They don't have five ice arenas.

Los Angeles 2028 could ADD hockey to the Summer Olympics by using Staples and Honda Center for hockey, shifting some basketball to UCLA's Pauley Pavilion and USC's Galen Center, and shuffling the events slated for USC/UCLA to the smaller arenas at Long Beach, Fullerton, Irvine, Northridge or Cal State LA.


The issue isn't "Why didn't the NHL send its players to the Winter Olympics?" The issue should be "Why is Olympic Hockey played during the professional season when all the other pro sports are at the Olympics of their off-season?"

I agree with all of that, but the Winter Games would lose its premiere event - the Men's Gold Medal game. The IOC would never support it.

 

[SabresSharks]

Live TV is believed to be more DVR proof which is why sports and things like WWE are getting huge increases in their TV deals.

I'm probably an anomaly, but I actually enjoy starting my NHL.tv games an hour or so late. I can fast-forward through commercials, and even whole intermissions, and be "live" near the end of the game, while spending only half the time normally needed to watch it.

 

[Fenway]

The issue isn't "Why didn't the NHL send its players to the Winter Olympics?" The issue should be "Why is Olympic Hockey played during the professional season when all the other pro sports are at the Olympics of their off-season?"

The IOC charter for the WINTER games specifies any discipline played on snow or ice is part of the winter games..... PERIOD.

 

[Fenway]

Has NBC ever had the Cup on their set, because I know it's something CBC has done for many years prior to this year.

Actually, for decades the Cup was never seen at the SCF until a game a team could win it. For example 2011

 

[Killion]

...

Actually, for decades the Cup was never seen at the SCF until a game a team could win it...

Indeed so. Do you recall when they started rolling it out early for the cameras' & crowds & who was responsible for that? Requested by the Producers at network level, something maybe former Marketing guy Collins came up with taking after the NFL or?.... Also.....

What do you think is behind a possible rift between the NHL & NBC? If a rift does exist why would Bettman exacerbate matters further & shoot himself & the League in the foot in denying NBC access to the SC during their showcase event, the Finals? If a rift does exist youd just grin & bear it as is the norm in show biz & make the best of it, no holds barred, you keep things like that, dysfunction or disagreement off the stage. Give it your all, act like no problem, deal with it behind closed doors after everythings done.

Man that is totally Bush as you well know being in the industry. Petty. Absolute stupidity given that this is the Marquee event of the season. Why would you be pulling back on the bells & whistles?. Bury the hatchet temporarily & put your best foot forward..... But then, this is a GD Labor Lawyer who once again is out of his depth. Using whatever he can to gain leverage, ticked off about something, holding back, thinking he's somehow punishing a partner or service provider, sponsor or whomever, that they dont deserve any respect until they comply with his demands, what he thinks is right & just, whatever outrageous price he thinks he can get away with over-charging or demanding others lower. Arrogance. Entitlement.

What d'ya think the NHL's going to wind up with come 2020/21 Fenway? New contract. I could go on & on about the ratings, totally unimpressive but for the obvious, way too much inventory, ratings beyond anemic in any number of markets. This stunt & God only knows what else. I'm seeing problems here. The outdoor games tied into the buys with NBC & with League wide sponsorships & those events, that cash cow pretty much milked dry. The WC of Hockey thus far faceplanting. Theyve got to reinvent themselves again & I'm not seeing any real creativity. Collins is gone. He authored much of the Central & Broadcast Revenue increases of the past decade. Playing Bon Cop to Bettmans Bad Cop in working out sponsorships, broadcast deals & so on. Now youve just got a Bad Cop running amok on NBC & others I'm sure. Nuts. Look. Bettmans very effective in all kinds of ways but they have to keep him the Hell away from marketing, dealing with sponsors & broadcasters. Its not like they cant afford to hire some real pro's. Let them do their jobs properly.

 

[SCBlueLiner]

It dosent matter what station its on the NHL is horrible at marketing product and still a gate driven league after 100 years. Espn nor Fox is going to help that.

I hear this said over and over again. What specifically should the NHL do to market their product better? The NHL has an app, NHL Network, NBC running ads on the network and NBCSN channels promoting upcoming games, there are NHL video games. It seems to me the NHL does everything that every other sports league does to promote their sport with the exception of one thing, they get zero run on any of the ESPN platforms. You won't hear a single peep out of ESPN, it's all NFL and NBA all the time. The biggest national radio show promoting hockey that I know of is probably Jim Rome Show as he regularly does interviews with NHL people and during the playoffs the NHL gets a ton of run on his show.

So what exactly would you like the NHL to do?

 

[powerstuck]

I hear this said over and over again. What specifically should the NHL do to market their product better? The NHL has an app, NHL Network, NBC running ads on the network and NBCSN channels promoting upcoming games, there are NHL video games. It seems to me the NHL does everything that every other sports league does to promote their sport with the exception of one thing, they get zero run on any of the ESPN platforms. You won't hear a single peep out of ESPN, it's all NFL and NBA all the time. The biggest national radio show promoting hockey that I know of is probably Jim Rome Show as he regularly does interviews with NHL people and during the playoffs the NHL gets a ton of run on his show.

So what exactly would you like the NHL to do?

Personally, NHL cannot do much for me. I've been cable free for 4 years now and I am far from being ''unhappy''.
Besides, I now have access to all games I want, when I want, versus me having to watch the one that my local TSN/RDS/Sportsnet/TVNetwork choses to show me.

But, if anything, NHL can do better scheduling. I've never been fan of Sunday AM games (10-11 PST/1-2 PM EST), same goes for Saturday.
I know from time to time there is a horserace or whatever on a given Saturday/Sunday and they don't wanna lose viewers, but I would guess they do lose more, because there is a crapton of people who have better to do than to spend their sunny Saturday watching TV.

 

[Killion]

Personally, NHL cannot do much for me. I've been cable free for 4 years now and I am far from being ''unhappy''.
Besides, I now have access to all games I want, when I want, versus me having to watch the one that my local TSN/RDS/Sportsnet/TVNetwork choses to show me.

But, if anything, NHL can do better scheduling. I've never been fan of Sunday AM games (10-11 PST/1-2 PM EST), same goes for Saturday.
I know from time to time there is a horserace or whatever on a given Saturday/Sunday and they don't wanna lose viewers, but I would guess they do lose more, because there is a crapton of people who have better to do than to spend their sunny Saturday watching TV.

Right. This right here. People have been cable cutting for years & its if anything amping up, an epidemic the results from which these major broadcasters are having a Hell of time trying to stem & losing. Losing badly. Left high & dry having grossly over-paid for broadcast rights. Losing subscribers by the yard daily, by the minute, cant be paying the kinds of fee's they have been as advertising revenues & sponsorships also dries up.

Theres almost nothing "compelling" about an 82 Game Regular Season Schedule & as you state the scheduling itself inconvenient for a considerable swath of their potential audiencve... and not just to watch it on TV but to attend. Too much inventory. Flooded the market. Viewing habits markedly changed. Millennial's & even the older generations, certainly those who embrace new technologies & forms of entertainment & informational delivery ignoring the League in droves. Only tuning in when something is compelling, of interest, then tuning out. Gone. No retention beyond an ever dwindling hard-core thats aging. Dying off.

All kinds of very obvious common sensical issues the NHL needs to address. I think their whistling up a dark alley if they think their looking at any major increases in the US broadcast contract & may in fact well find themselves taking a hit in Canada as well. Rogers out of their minds to have paid what they did & they know it. Entire NHL model needs to change. Theyve been chasing this Ghost Ship laden with broadcast riches without them repeatedly since 67/68 & that ship sailed, is now just about sunk.

 

[SCBlueLiner]

Thing is, all the money the cable companies and networks are losing to cord cutters, well who owns the services they are switching to like Hulu, etc.? It's the same companies.

I've always said it, any way you slice it the media conglomerates are going to get their money. Disney is going to get paid if you watch ABC/ESPN, or if you cut the cord and watch Hulu. They are going to get paid no matter what.

The tech companies like Amazon and Facebook are sitting there with tons of money ready to get into the game. They need content. The sports leagues and the NCAA are going to get fatter, not thinner.

 

[eddygee]

Based on the ratings difference between NBC's over-the-air channel and their NBCSN cable channel...could that be part of this unhappiness?

But who's fault is that NBC or NHL or is it anyones? This is what I was alluding to when I was talking about the poor regular season TV numbers that are in decline vs Playoff ratings being up this year. Just speculation but NHL may have entered into the early negotiating window with NBC and may have not like the numbers NBC has come back with. We have to remember these negotiation talks are looked as long term investments and are judged on a whole. NBC will look at how NHL's ratings have done since the current deal was signed in 2010. NBC will ask themselves 2 questions. Has the product grown? Yes or No. Can the product be grown? Yes or No.

From the moment NBC publicly went on record and badmouthed NHL TV ratings saying the move by Bettman to not send players to the Olympics was unwise especially as ratings were down was all I needed to know to see that the marriage was in big trouble. NBC even said they would blackout all NHL games as retaliation they eventually backtracked. So there is grievance on both sides, NBC likely was fine paying hockey as long as they got a chance every Olympics to get a big boost TV ratings boost to prop up their NHL TV product. Get fans more interested in the game and hope they translate to a additional TV audience that would watch NHL on their channels. When Bettman made the decision to not send players NBC most likely felt they were being screwed. Bettman probably feels like the league is under paid in TV dollars.

I tend to side with NBC. NHL fans OF COURSE we are excited playoff numbers are up, but back to what I first said these things are long term investments and NBC is most likely looking at numbers since 2010 and looking at them now and seeing Regular season numbers are significantly worse off. Though playoff numbers are up this year on a whole they are marginally better.

At first look there is now way you can look at NHL's ratings since the TV deal was signed in 2010 and bet your house on anything more than a courteous 300-400 mil offer from NBC, you then consider playoff numbers and you can somewhat realistically see $500 mil for a exclusive deal. But people thinking 600-700mil must have not been paying attention to the ratings as a whole the last decade. You don't get 600-700 mil from NBC with NHL past numbers it'd be one thing if ratings were just flat., however regular season ratings are lower than they were back in 2010. For NHL to get 600-700 million they will need all three networks NBC,ESPN, and FOX bidding up the price. To piss off one of your long term partners and potential bidder you'll need bidding up the price because you think your product is worth more than it really is, is beyond fool hardy. I like Bettman but he needs to take some humble pie.

I just hope we don't end up in a situation where we overplay our hand in the grand scheme of things. We have one of the fastest aging demographics that will be the least likely to switch to streaming. I just don't get why Bettman is biting the hand that feeds you.

 

[AmericanDream]

Can someone explain how the actual NHL Network functions? This channel is owned by another company not the NHL correct? And that same company owns the MLB Network as well, which is why we see Kelly Nash and others back and forth between seasons?

I think the NHL has to get more involved with the NHL Network as the actual amount of programming and content is appalling in comparison to MLB and NFL Network.

There is literally only the noon sit down talk show with Maclean, Kypreos, and random others that puts me to sleep...then nothing until NHL Now at 4pm...then nothing until NHL Tonight..that is about it...MLB when not airing games has fresh content all day long, with personalities and programs that are entertaining to follow, and the NHL, well we know that is a 24/7 showcase of fresh content for their sport.

I am tired of seeing rerun after rerun and lame talk show after talk show on the NHL Network. I think they have to start branching out, spicing things up, better overall programming can lead to more attention and viewers...it is almost dreary at times watching those programs. They did try to brighten things up a bit when they got their "ice rink" thanks to MLB Network, but since then nothing much has changed and it is simply boring.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I remember when NHL Network first came out and they ran like Classic Series all summer long...I loved that. And they didn't talk over highlights, they just queued up the announcers call...those were the days.

 

[Its a Trap]

Biggest problem I have with NBC is their staunch refusal to put any games on NBC besides the 5 final games, the Winter Classic and the rare conference final game. The lack of the sport on one of the big channels is just too much to overcome when every game is on NBCSN and just insulting when NBC chooses to play reruns on channel 4 and shunt playoff games to CNBC/Golf Channel/USA. NBC has always treated the NHL like shit.