Is Ben Bishop all that?

mcnorth

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Jun 28, 2011
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We did not have to dump a goaltender. That's not true. We chose to move a goalie.

Yes, Bishop IS all that, in that he is a legit #1 goalie in this league and would push our best goalie and was and still is better than Lehner.

A team in our division got better and is still better b/c of the deal, we got a little better for a little while and got a mid rd pick and we'll have to revisit once that pick has played out. But yeah, if we have to call a 'winner' it is TB, and it's TB b/c Bishop is all that and Conacher is not. And if Conacher ever is, it'll be for someone else.
 

L'Aveuglette

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Jan 8, 2007
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Who cares. Most of us thought it was a good trade at the time so whether he's "all that" or not, it really doesn't matter.
 

PeterSidorkiewicz

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Apr 30, 2004
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He was always my least favorite of the Anderson Lehner Bishop trio so I had no problems with the move. He's obviously not bad, but I do think he's overrated.
 

Nac Mac Feegle

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Jun 10, 2011
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Problem with Bishop was the same problem during the Chara vs Redden era. The sudden rule changes seriously hurt some guys, while helping others.

Changes to puck handling, equipment sizing standards, crease size, and length of the goal stick changed dynamics with a lot of guys. In theory, you'd think the unusually tall goalies would've suffered from the stick changes the most, but it hurt Lehner more than Bishop.
 

bigfatfist

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Apr 17, 2012
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Surprised how many TBA fans think Vasilevskiy will win that job sooner rather than later.
 

Tap on the Ankle

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Jun 9, 2004
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He's a good starter. The trade was regrettable in hindsight, sure. At the time Bishop was only a backup, not an established starter, so he was traded for the value of a backup which is around a 2nd round pick. BM opted for Conacher instead who was more a established asset than a 2nd round pick.

I don't see the trade as anything to get hung up about. Bishop was never going to get the chance to prove himself here like he did in Tampa and would have been a UFA sooner than later, so it's not really comparable to trading a young fwd/dman before he breaks out. When you have multiple good goalies, you have to trade one, and if the goalie becomes a starter you will almost certainly have lost the trade.

There are worse problems to have, such as not having any good goalies to begin with. It's kinda like losing Tim Murray. Sure, it sucks, but it's better to have good management team that gets poached than to have Edmonton's management.
 
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Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
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Surprised how many TBA fans think Vasilevskiy will win that job sooner rather than later.

You must be new on HF

The riser is always better than the performer on here

Would you rather the 1st overall pick in the 2015 draft or Crosby? You can be sure most posters on HF would take the pick :laugh:
 

FolignoQuantumLeap

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Mar 16, 2009
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Bishop's a very good goalie, to think we only got Cory Conacher for him was a bad move for the team.

We didn't ONLY get Conacher.

Fact is goalies return very little via trade. He was to hit free agency if he didn't get enough starts and we moved him for what we could get.
 

bert

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I've kind of grown weary every time someone throws up the bad 'Bishop trade'. There were plenty of reasons the Sens chose to let him go but was it really such a loss?

The guy has very average GAA and SV% numbers and is amongst the worst of teams in playoff contention. Below average numbers amongst starters even.

For sure he's cleaning up in wins but it must help playing behind the highest scoring team in the league. I will admit being wrong about the Tampa team being so good but I just don't see Bishop as elite.

And why is it the Sens always get grief for trading Bishop but we never hear about St. Louis?

As an aside, Tampa is a pretty damned good team and I am looking forward to seeing how they do in the playoffs. Can they continue to score heavily in the playoffs or will goaltending come more into play in tight checking games?

Vasilevsky will be the starter there by the end of next season.

Bishop cant track a puck and has a massive 5 hole. At the time Conacher was the leading rookie scorer and was just mvp of the AHL after they won it all. It was a trade most people would have made. Tampa is an unbelievable team and will only get better, they have done a tremendous job developing players. I was shocked when people didnt think they would contend this year.
 

bert

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You must be new on HF

The riser is always better than the performer on here

Would you rather the 1st overall pick in the 2015 draft or Crosby? You can be sure most posters on HF would take the pick :laugh:

Its about watching both goalies, Bishop has some massive faults. Vasilevsky is incredible technically and is wildly athletic he is going to be a star. He has already been better than Bishop this season beating some very good teams.

He was always my least favorite of the Anderson Lehner Bishop trio so I had no problems with the move. He's obviously not bad, but I do think he's overrated.

My feelings exactly, Lehners regression this season looks like he might have been the worst option but at the time he looked better than Bishop with more upside. I hope he can get things back on track.
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
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Vasilevsky does indeed look like he's going to be great

However it's one thing to look like you're going to be great and another thing entirely to be great night-in and night-out
 

RedSeven*

Guest
Ben Bishop sucks. Man he's the most overrated goalie in the NHL.

Nice guy. But his glove hand is worse then my grandmas.

I mean. Its like 12% worse then the average glovr hand in the NHL.

Hes got a great team and D but in reality hes meh.
 

Larionov

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Feb 9, 2005
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Look around the league over the last few years - does anyone ever get good value in return when they trade a goalie? LA only got a second and Scrivens for Bernier. Montreal was criticized for not getting enough when they traded Halak. Canucks got some journeymen and a bit of cap relief in trading Luongo, who's playing great for Florida. List goes on and on - for a variety of reasons, it's a buyer's market on goalies, and has been for a while.

This trend may even intensify now that GMs see a journeyman like Dubnyk lighting it up under the right circumstances in Minnesota, or even our own situation where the Senators go on a streak in front of a VERY lightly regarded 27 year old college free agent. Why spend big assets on a goalie when you can draft and develop your own, or pick one up on the trade market for peanuts? Sure, in hindsight we missed on Conacher, but the bottom line is that we had a logjam in goal, and the return wasn't going to magically get better had we waited.
 

NyQuil

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Jan 5, 2005
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We saw his weaknesses when he played for us.

He is still a solid goalie and I'm glad he's got a bit of a career going.

(another division would have been nice)
 

mcnorth

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
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Look around the league over the last few years - does anyone ever get good value in return when they trade a goalie? LA only got a second and Scrivens for Bernier. Montreal was criticized for not getting enough when they traded Halak. Canucks got some journeymen and a bit of cap relief in trading Luongo, who's playing great for Florida. List goes on and on - for a variety of reasons, it's a buyer's market on goalies, and has been for a while.

This trend may even intensify now that GMs see a journeyman like Dubnyk lighting it up under the right circumstances in Minnesota, or even our own situation where the Senators go on a streak in front of a VERY lightly regarded 27 year old college free agent. Why spend big assets on a goalie when you can draft and develop your own, or pick one up on the trade market for peanuts? Sure, in hindsight we missed on Conacher, but the bottom line is that we had a logjam in goal, and the return wasn't going to magically get better had we waited.

That's true, and a fair response. But for myself, and my sense is this represents at least a few others too, that the 'return' on Bishop many wanted wasn't a player or a pick - it was a move that returned now and in the future.

You keep Bishop, sign him (for whatever reason everyone says he was going to walk - but that's conjecture) and go with Bishop and Anderson. Maybe Bishop turns out to be better than Andy now and over the short term, perhaps last year when Andy struggled and Bishop had a career year. And in keeping Bishop you allow Lehner to mature his self and game in the AHL getting 65 starts a year for three or so years.

And maybe that approach pays off. Hey, maybe it doesn't. Maybe feeling pressured and rushed by Lehner's camp, by thinking Conacher might fill a need immediately and perhaps even long-term, maybe that move was the right one. There's not really a definitive answer unless b/c it's all relative to one's opinion of what should have been returned or what should have been done.

For me, I liked Bishop who, despite not being a perfect goalie, was good for us and I wanted Lehner to develop in the AHL - and I had a higher opinion of Lehner's game when they made the move than I do now. Today I see a guy who really could have used another 100 or so pro starts, a guy whose develop may have actually been hurt by being in the NHL. Again, no guarantees his game develops any differently, but I think it very well could have, and have a hard time imagining it would have hurt. But who knows - maybe he bolts b/c of playing in the A, maybe he sulks and stops working on his game.

I'd also add I liked Conacher a lot more than MacLean - but I still have a hard time seeing where he'd fit today. Was fun though, he was great against Mtl and that kid line with Silf and Zibby was our best line for a bit there.
 

sens83

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Sep 22, 2009
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Those of us that watched Bishop in the AHL for a few years knew how good he was. Quite frankly I was excited when we acquired him from St Louis given that we had Lehner. We took a strength, and a situation were we could have let Lehner stay in the AHL and grow, where he should have been, into a goalie like Bishop. Bishop was much older and wiser for it before he cracked the NHL. The problem is Robin Lehner, always has been.
 

RedSeven*

Guest
Bishop has brutal #'s. He is 5 years older than Lehner and his numbers are sub par on a freaken stacked team.

He's an NHL goalie but hes a very low tier one at best. He'll be a back up eventually.

Lehner is a winner and has that fiery attitutde. He's also got way more raw talent then Bishop.
 

SAK11

Registered User
Oct 4, 2011
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We did not have to dump a goaltender. That's not true. We chose to move a goalie.

Yes, Bishop IS all that, in that he is a legit #1 goalie in this league and would push our best goalie and was and still is better than Lehner.

A team in our division got better and is still better b/c of the deal, we got a little better for a little while and got a mid rd pick and we'll have to revisit once that pick has played out. But yeah, if we have to call a 'winner' it is TB, and it's TB b/c Bishop is all that and Conacher is not. And if Conacher ever is, it'll be for someone else.

Lehner had the higher save percentage and lower GAA on all 3 teams that they played on together- the 2011-12 Ottawa Senators, 2012-13 Binghamton Senators, and 2012-13 Ottawa Senators. That's 47 games for Lehner and 36 for Bishop, with the same team in front of them. He was also 5 years younger and just a couple years removed from his Calder Cup MVP. Lehner was already seen as the superior goalie, making the trade seem like a fairly obvious one to make at the time.

Bishop has gone to one of the best situations that he could- an up and coming team with a commitment to team defense. He has a 32-11-3 record this year with a .913 sv%. That .913 number is significant because it is the exact same sv% Lehner had last year, when his record was 12-15-6. Clearly, playing for Tampa has helped him greatly.
 

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