Is anyone else getting mad about the no rebuild?

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Ok go prance back off to "Narnia" where the fans don't matter and the money grows off trees.

So you have nothing legitimate to state in the argument, so you tell me to go back off to Narnia ?

Seriously. I'm sorry to break that to you, but the revenue of the team will not allow the team to tank and "real fans" would not want to see the team lose anyway.

To summarize:

1) Strategically, it doesn't make sense as drafting well versus drafting position yields better results

2) We basically are rebuilding right now. Just not completely, flagrantly tanking and becoming so bad we're a lock for top 3 pick

3) When a GM says "fans" he means "revenue".

4) This team has the capacity to improve the future while being competitive now.

PS

I never said the fans don't matter. I said that it's not the priority. It's a system with everything intertwined. They're playing for success and so are the fans, so that's great, but to say that their motivators are how we feel about anything (ESPECIALLY when it's the suggestion to intentionally lose) is ludicrous.

 

[y2kcanucks]

So you have nothing legitimate to state in the argument, so you tell me to go back off to Narnia ?

Seriously. I'm sorry to break that to you, but the revenue of the team will not allow the team to tank and "real fans" would not want to see the team lose anyway.

To summarize:

1) Strategically, it doesn't make sense as drafting well versus drafting position yields better results

2) We basically are rebuilding right now. Just not completely, flagrantly tanking and becoming so bad we're a lock for top 3 pick

3) When a GM says "fans" he means "revenue".

4) This team has the capacity to improve the future while being competitive now.

PS

I never said the fans don't matter. I said that it's not the priority. It's a system with everything intertwined. They're playing for success and so are the fans, so that's great, but to say that their motivators are how we feel about anything (ESPECIALLY when it's the suggestion to intentionally lose) is ludicrous.

Not really, but hey, if you consider 10th place finishes competitive....

 

[Vankiller Whale]

Not mad. More like resigned; I really think that we'll be a mediocre team for at least the next three years, possibly(probably) more until management is either fired or has an epiphany.

 

[Pip]

People won't buy tickets to go see a bottom dweller

That's how the fans don't allow for a rebuild.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Islanders and Florida, Columbus and Edmonton

How's it working out for those guys ?

Like I said, there's no proof the tank model guarantees success.

Those are tiny markets with piss poor management historically and markets where nobody wants to stay.

Colorado, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Tampa

Try it, it works.

 

[Mofletz]

I don't trust our amateur scouts for a rebuild. If we rebuild we will become the next Oilers. 100% guarantee.

We have a hard time drafting 1st round. White, Schroeder.

 

[settinguptheplay]

Those are tiny markets with piss poor management historically and markets where nobody wants to stay.

Colorado, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Tampa

Try it, it works.

Chicago was horrible for YEARS before they hit the jackpot. They are a bad example of a quick tank/rebuild. Pittsburgh got back to back generational talents. Both of whom surpass any player in next years super draft. Tampa has done jack squat so I am not convinced they are a success story as of yet. Ditto for Colorado.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Chicago was horrible for YEARS before they hit the jackpot. They are a bad example of a quick tank/rebuild. Pittsburgh got back to back generational talents. Both of whom surpass any player in next years super draft. Tampa has done jack squat so I am not convinced they are a success story as of yet. Ditto for Colorado.

Eh...McDavid is being called a generational talent.

 

[PM]

i don't know how anyone can actually think that this team will win a playoff round, especially in the ultra competitive western conference. Sure we don't have to trade every single roster player like Edmonton or Buffalo but if we are out of it by the deadline the smart thing to do would be to ship off everyone but the Sedins, Hamhuis and Bieksa. Those four will most likely refuse to waive and they would be great leaders and role models for the next wave anyways.

But the Aqua fam will demand their two home games of playoff revenue and need an excuse to keep raising ticket prices. I don't know how anyone could actually pay over $100 to see a game this year and keep their sanity. I've done it in years past but I'm definitely staying far away from Rogers Arena this year (which is easy because I'm from the island).

 

[settinguptheplay]

Eh...McDavid is being called a generational talent.

What do you think. Is he on the level of a Crosby or a Malkin? I personally don't see it.

 

[Ryp37]

The teams too good to tank, a team with the Sedins and this d-corp isn't going to outsuck the Buffalos and Edmontons of the hockey world

No idea why so many people are obsessed with this idea, too much NHL 14 probably

 

[Wisp]

Four first round picks in the last two years, twice in the top 10, and they're not rebuilding?

I mean, they're not trying to tank obviously but they see the writing on the wall.

 

[y2kcanucks]

What do you think. Is he on the level of a Crosby or a Malkin? I personally don't see it.

I think he's the best prospect since Crosby/Malkin, which puts him up in very elite company.

Man, it would have been nice to trade up for Sam Reinhart in this past years draft. But hey, to some people keeping Tanev and Hansen meant more.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

People won't buy tickets to go see a bottom dweller

That's how the fans don't allow for a rebuild.

Honestly, this debate just boils down to "does a rebuild actually work? or Pittsburgh model vs. Edmonton model". So I'm going to stay out of that part of it, it's been discussed to the moon and back.

But this quote is good. We are a 100-point+ team 5 years running and one bad year already has us struggling to keep the stands full. We are a fickle fanbase, that's how it is. Aquilini's see the bottom line. That is their first and foremost concern. And I can't blame them for going after the pony and the cart at the same time. Our prospect pool is deep as its ever been and if not for a stacked conference we could be a good bet for the playoffs perennially still.

It's easy to cry out for a rebuild when a lot of fans wanting it don't know what it entails. It's not just 2 years of sucking and suddenly turning a corner. Pittsburgh nor Chicago willingly put themselves in a rebuild stage. You don't purposely put a vehicle to a rebuild stage either. Those two, Washington, Calgary, Edmonton, Buffalo, and those old enough to truly know what the Dead Wings era was put themselves through years of toil in a barren desert of ineptitude. Years of clamoring and peddling of new front office, change, and same old results.

Fans here won't stand for it. There are simply other attractions to keep your time elsewhere for the Canucks. And no, the average fan off the street isn't one you find here. They probably don't remember the likes of powerplay specialist Byron Ritchie or 3rd line center Marc Chouinard and why those names are so hilarious for us. They are the ones who have trouble with whose name played on the fourth line last season...and those are the ones management needs to appease.

 

[Mofletz]

I think he's the best prospect since Crosby/Malkin, which puts him up in very elite company.

Man, it would have been nice to trade up for Sam Reinhart in this past years draft. But hey, to some people keeping Tanev and Hansen meant more.

more like Bo, Hunter, and the 6th

 

[jigsaw99]

Islanders and Florida, Columbus and Edmonton

How's it working out for those guys ?

Like I said, there's no proof the tank model guarantees success.

Calgary, Toronto, Nashville

How's no rebuilding working out for those guys?

Nothing is guaranteed

 

[Shareefruck]

Tanking and rebuilding are two different things, in my mind.

I'm pissed off that we don't seem to be rebuilding as seriously as we should. However, I don't think we should tank tank. That would be suicide. But I'm worried that as long as we have this fan-base and this meddling ownership, this team is going to be perpetually stuck in nowhere land.

Shouldn't have wasted a pick on a guy like Dorsett, who is only useful if you're competing for the playoffs, shouldn't spend that 50th pick on Vey rather than McKeown, should have gotten a younger piece rather than Bonino, should have signed Santorelli as a stop-gap, should have signed a MIDDLE-TIER veteran goalie who can work together with Lack rather than Miller, who's unquestionably going to be the starter, and should let Stanton and Corrado be on the team rather than Sbisa.

I wouldn't sell all the players whole-sale, but I would have liked the above to happen-- Not going for McDavid necessarily (although it would be within the realm of possibility), but letting the team organically restart and learn/grow with each other from the ground up, at the expense of competing (much like the year that the likes of Bieksa and Baumgartner were first on the team). End up with what's bound to be a solid pick with a good chance of being the blue-chip #1 center prospect that would put us over the top. And ultimately end up with a tighter group coming up.

 

[thehockeyfanatic]

No. I said, there's no proof that tanking works, then you cited two teams that drafted in high positions and then became successful. I cited four that have drafted high for awhile and have not succeeded. Then tossed in one that hasn't draft high, but well and killed it.

The point is: There's a higher correlation between drafting WELL and success. Not nearly is the same to be said about drafting HIGH and success.

For that reason, you don't aim and strategize to draft LOW, you aim to draft WELL.

Pretty simple concepts here.

I think you're on point when you say that drafting well is more important to drafting high. For one thing there are many teams that have routinely drafted in the top 10 but failed to make any significant progress after years. At the same time most of the teams that are contending for Stanley Cups have usually at least one or two very high picks.

All that being said I'm not convinced we have or will draft well in the future. We certainly haven't drafted well in the recent past. How many draft picks from the last 7 years are on the Canucks roster? I believe the Hockey News recently ranked the Canucks the third worst at drafting by measuring how successful picks made after the second round have become in recent years.

Benning has also kept the previous regime's scouting staff in place while adding people to peripheral management positions. I hope our drafting improves going forward but I think our management and scouting staff are in danger of having too many chefs in the kitchen.

 

[Taelin]

This won't end well. Thread closed.