Is anyone else getting mad about the no rebuild?

[joustinboy123]

Is anybody else getting ticked off about how our "fans" will not allow a rebuild? To be honest if you were a real fan you would somewhat embrace a rebuild. Yes it sucks to lose but look what other teams have been through and look where they are now? THis really bothers me because this team isn't winning a Cup, the 2011 team didn't win the Cup (even though we were close) and also I don't want to get a mid-tier pick in an extremely deep draft just to play an extra 4 or 5 games. So why is it such a big deal NOT to rebuild???

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[Nona Di Giuseppe]

I stopped reading at "fan"s will not allow a rebuild.

What are you talking about ?

Fans don't dictate ****. The owners want a continuously winning team so they can have a profitable business and a team worth watching.

It is also better than having an owner that doesn't care about winning by the way. Rebuilding = years of hockey not worth watching and being brutal. Nothing has shown the tank model works.

PS - This is rebuilding. Just because we're not committing to being a horrible team, doesn't mean they're not turning over a new core. 4 first rounders in two years and trading away 2 of the top 4 pieces on the team ? Yeah.

 

[settinguptheplay]

I was ok with it until you said a "real fan" should embrace tanking. At that point the whole post becomes the drivel it is....

Vancouver fans are as bandwagon as it gets. One season of tanking does not guarantee success. A few years out of the playoffs and this once successful franchise would be in financial shambles. The business cost to tanking makes it that a big market team like Vancouver will never tank in the way you are speaking. Toronto falls to this same problem. Edmonton? Not so much. Its the Oilers or freeze.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I stopped reading at "fan"s will not allow a rebuild.

What are you talking about ?

Fans don't dictate as much as one thinks. The owners want a continuously winning team so they can have a profitable business and a team worth watching.

It is also better than having an owner that doesn't care about winning by the way. Rebuilding = years of hockey not worth watching and being brutal. Nothing has shown the tank model works.

PS - We are rebuilding.

Wut.

Penguins and Hawks.

That said, I do think "tanking" is dumb. Just saying there some (obvious) examples of tanking paying off.

 

[LiquidSnake]

I was ok with it until you said a "real fan" should embrace tanking. At that point the whole post becomes the drivel it is....

Vancouver fans are as bandwagon as it gets. One season of tanking does not guarantee success. A few years out of the playoffs and this once successful franchise would be in financial shambles. The business cost to tanking makes it that a big market team like Vancouver will never tank in the way you are speaking. Toronto falls to this same problem. Edmonton? Not so much. Its the Oilers or freeze.

Why are fans bandwagon if they aren't supporting a team that is mediocre yet keeps raising prices?

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Wut.

Penguins and Hawks.

That said, I do think "tanking" is dumb. Just saying there some (obvious) examples of tanking paying off.

Islanders and Florida, Columbus and Edmonton

How's it working out for those guys ?

Like I said, there's no proof the tank model guarantees success.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Wut.

Penguins and Hawks.

That said, I do think "tanking" is dumb. Just saying there some (obvious) examples of tanking paying off.

Also, Detroit.

They've the anti-tank and it just proves regardless of where you finish, you must draft well. Will finishing lower in the standings give you a better chance of drafting well, yes. Is success of a franchise dependent on draft position and therefore tanking? No. It IS however drafting well, regardless of your position dependent.

Logic.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

I'm more concerned the rebuild attempt they are trying didn't start a year earlier.

This year will be rough imo.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

fans don't dictate ****.

fi-re gil-lis.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Also, Detroit.

They've the anti-tank and it just proves regardless of where you finish, you must draft well. Will finishing lower in the standings give you a better chance of drafting well, yes. Is success of a franchise dependent on draft position and therefore tanking? No.

Logic.

Problem is the Gills changed the Canucks drafting to draft 'big' instead of drafting for skill, which is what Detroit does.

 

[me2]

Islanders and Florida, Columbus and Edmonton

How's it working out for those guys ?

Like I said, there's no proof the tank model guarantees success.

Nothing guarantees success. Some methods are just more successful than others.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Islanders and Florida, Columbus and Edmonton

How's it working out for those guys ?

Like I said, there's no proof the tank model guarantees success.

It doesn't guarantee success. But you said there's no proof that it works, and I just gave you two teams that worked it to cup wins.

Like any team building strategy, it depends on the competence of the staff (or, frankly, in the Pens' case, luck).

It's not a foolproof option like some seem to think, but it has its merits.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Is anybody else getting ticked off about how our "fans" will not allow a rebuild? To be honest if you were a real fan you would somewhat embrace a rebuild. Yes it sucks to lose but look what other teams have been through and look where they are now? THis really bothers me because this team isn't winning a Cup, the 2011 team didn't win the Cup (even though we were close) and also I don't want to get a mid-tier pick in an extremely deep draft just to play an extra 4 or 5 games. So why is it such a big deal NOT to rebuild???

We've had 4 first round picks in the last two drafts. Two of which were top 10. We traded our second line Selke winning center who was our top scorer last year and both members of the top goalie tandem in the league as well as one of our top 5 defence men. We finished sixth last in the entire Nhl just barely beating out Calgary and the Islanders. What exactly do you want? The team to intentionally tank?

 

[canuck4life16]

sorry but rebuild is unacceptable and the worst way.........

 

[joustinboy123]

I stopped reading at "fan"s will not allow a rebuild.

What are you talking about ?

Fans don't dictate ****. The owners want a continuously winning team so they can have a profitable business and a team worth watching.

It is also better than having an owner that doesn't care about winning by the way. Rebuilding = years of hockey not worth watching and being brutal. Nothing has shown the tank model works.

PS - This is rebuilding. Just because we're not committing to being a horrible team, doesn't mean they're not turning over a new core. 4 first rounders in two years and trading away 2 of the top 4 pieces on the team ? Yeah.

Actually they do, did you see the SUmmer Summit? When someone asked about why we don't rebuild and go for McDavid (or one of the other top players) Benning says that the FANS (the keyword is FANS) won't allow it, so tell me again how fans don't dictate anything? Fans are the reason the NHL exists.

 

[joustinboy123]

I was ok with it until you said a "real fan" should embrace tanking. At that point the whole post becomes the drivel it is....

Vancouver fans are as bandwagon as it gets. One season of tanking does not guarantee success. A few years out of the playoffs and this once successful franchise would be in financial shambles. The business cost to tanking makes it that a big market team like Vancouver will never tank in the way you are speaking. Toronto falls to this same problem. Edmonton? Not so much. Its the Oilers or freeze.

I said SOMEWHAT, obviously nobody wants a rebuild but it has to happen, would you rather have brutal seasons of no improvement? Or build from those and have the 2011 team back and remodelled in a few years?

 

[Mofletz]

successful rebuilds work if the Scouts can draft well after the first round.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

It doesn't guarantee success. But you said there's no proof that it works, and I just gave you two teams that worked it to cup wins.

Like any team building strategy, it depends on the competence of the staff (or, frankly, in the Pens' case, luck).

It's not a foolproof option like some seem to think, but it has its merits.

No. I said, there's no proof that tanking works, then you cited two teams that drafted in high positions and then became successful. I cited four that have drafted high for awhile and have not succeeded. Then tossed in one that hasn't draft high, but well and killed it.

The point is: There's a higher correlation between drafting WELL and success. Not nearly is the same to be said about drafting HIGH and success.

For that reason, you don't aim and strategize to draft LOW, you aim to draft WELL.

Pretty simple concepts here.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Actually they do, did you see the SUmmer Summit? When someone asked about why we don't rebuild and go for McDavid (or one of the other top players) Benning says that the FANS (the keyword is FANS) won't allow it, so tell me again how fans don't dictate anything? Fans are the reason the NHL exists.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

When he says FANS, swap that with REVENUE, every time you hear Benning speak. It's all interchangable.

Oh, right. Because Benning is going to drop a "Yeah. So Aquinlini's told me they don't want a year of losing so that's my motivation."

In list of motivations for Benning, 'fans' are pretty low. It's there in a sentimental way, I'm sure, but ultimately, he's driven by success of the team and business. It's just a by-product we dig it.

Regardless, we don't dictate much of anything as much as you'd like to think so.

The NHL exists just as much due to the owners of the teams, we the revenue... I mean "fans" are a part of a system, but not the primary cause of the existence of the league.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I stopped reading at "fan"s will not allow a rebuild.

What are you talking about ?

Fans don't dictate ****. The owners want a continuously winning team so they can have a profitable business and a team worth watching.

It is also better than having an owner that doesn't care about winning by the way. Rebuilding = years of hockey not worth watching and being brutal. Nothing has shown the tank model works.

PS - This is rebuilding. Just because we're not committing to being a horrible team, doesn't mean they're not turning over a new core. 4 first rounders in two years and trading away 2 of the top 4 pieces on the team ? Yeah.

Did you stop listening to Jim Benning when he said "fans will not allow a rebuild?"

 

[joustinboy123]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

When he says FANS, swap that with REVENUE, every time you hear Benning speak. It's all interchangable.

Oh, right. Because Benning is going to drop a "Yeah. So Aquinlini's told me they don't want a year of losing so that's my motivation."

In list of motivations for Benning, 'fans' are pretty low. It's there in a sentimental way, I'm sure, but ultimately, he's driven by success of the team and business. It's just a by-product we dig it.

Regardless, we don't dictate much of anything as much as you'd like to think so.

The NHL exists just as much due to the owners of the teams, we the revenue... I mean "fans" are a part of a system, but not the primary cause of the existence of the league.

Ok go prance back off to "Narnia" where the fans don't matter and the money grows off trees.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Problem is the Gills changed the Canucks drafting to draft 'big' instead of drafting for skill, which is what Detroit does.

Yeah Schroeder is a monster.

Hodgson ... instead of Beech.

Jensen ?

I have no ****ing clue what you're talking about. Tell me you're not talking about size, please.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Yeah Schroeder is a monster.

Hodgson ... instead of Beech.

Jensen ?

I have no ****ing clue what you're talking about. Tell me you're not talking about size, please.

Hence the word "changed." If you read that word you might have a clue what he was talking about. The Canucks were willing to draft smaller, skilled players, but Gillis changed that strategy to target big players.

Nicklas Jensen is 6'3 200lbs. But you're right when you say:

I have no ****ing clue

 

[Wilch]

successful rebuilds work if the Scouts can draft well after the first round.

That's a big if given the way things have gone for our amateur scouts.

 

[y2kcanucks]

That's a big if given the way things have gone for our amateur scouts.

True. Our scouts are garbage. Though if we do end up with someone like McDavid or Eichel that would turn things around for this organization pretty quickly. This team really could use a fresh rebuild like Colorado.