Is another bad season the best thing?

[HisIceness]

It's my belief that one more bad season (and hence bad attendance) will further erode the season ticket base, and unfortunately, I don't see good things for the franchise in the future if that happens.

But that's me.

Right there with you S1C2. This franchise cannot afford another 14-15 season. I feel interest in the team as a whole is very close to an all-time low, and there's been a couple of stretches where it took a 2002 or 2006 run to bring it back up.

While yes, another bad season plus all this other stuff could be a good thing going forward, can we really afford it? I don't think so.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Right there with you S1C2. This franchise cannot afford another 14-15 season. I feel interest in the team as a whole is very close to an all-time low, and there's been a couple of stretches where it took a 2002 or 2006 run to bring it back up.

While yes, another bad season plus all this other stuff could be a good thing going forward, can we really afford it? I don't think so.

I don't disagree that another bad season will further degrade the fan base, but are people expecting that they'll be much better next year? They aren't going to try to be bad, but I think they will be bad, even if they don't want to be.

 

[HisIceness]

To be honest I don't think they will be very good next season but you never know.

For the record 10 years ago if someone told me the Hurricanes would even be in the playoffs the following season, let alone winning the cup, I'd ask that person what they are smoking. But then again, different circumstances.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

To be honest I don't think they will be very good next season but you never know.

For the record 10 years ago if someone told me the Hurricanes would even be in the playoffs the following season, let alone winning the cup, I'd ask that person what they are smoking. But then again, different circumstances.

Yeah, I agree you never know. But 05/06 was, as you said, different circumstances. The game changed substantially from before the lockout (less physical, less clutch and grab, more penalties, etc..) Teams changed substantially and the Canes got some advantage from guys that were let go / bought out from former teams, etc..

There aren't extenuating circumstances like there was then. Let's face it, the Canes have finished with the 8th, 5th, 7th and 5th pick in the NHL the last 4 years. Pretty much everything would have to go very right for them even to compete for a playoff spot IMO.

 

[What the Faulk]

Except Buffalo

Did anyone tell Ted Nolan?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Did anyone tell Ted Nolan?

No, which is why he was fired.

I'm not suggesting players or coaches try to lose, they simply don't. When they are on the ice, they are trying to win at every opportunity. But, their owner/GM dismantled that team and sold off every decent piece for prospects / picks making the team much worse for the short term. Call it what you want, but they were more interested in getting the top pick this season and stocking more picks than winning for the short term (at the management level). Not sure how anyone can even debate that. To me, trading off most/all of your good players for lesser players on a wholesale level is pretty much trying to lose.

 

[golfpro827]

It's my belief that one more bad season (and hence bad attendance) will further erode the season ticket base, and unfortunately, I don't see good things for the franchise in the future if that happens.

But that's me.

Absolutely fantastic point that I had not considered.

I renewed my season tickets for year 10 next year and I just am not one of those "Screw this team" type people. I am crazy loyal to this franchise.

Because of that, I didn't even think of that.

What a really really bad jam this team is in.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

The team doesn't have to make the playoffs next year.

But they do have to contend for the playoffs.

I've held full season tickets for six years now, and packages going all the way back to '99-'00.

I've got a tough travel schedule, and I have for a few years now. In years past, I would arrange travel around Canes home stands as best I could. But this past year, about half the time when I was in town, I just decided I didn't want to go. Some nights I couldn't even give my tickets away.

Why? Because they were out of it by January 1.

Fans buy into hope. So long as there's reasonable hope of postseason play, we'll come to see the games. But when there's no hope, there's no reason to watch.

If they can manage to stay within 5 points of a playoff spot for most of the year, even if they end up in 11th, that is *so hugely preferable* to this last year.

I think the good news is that they're good enough to do that. Jordan Staal is, at this point, the best two-way player on this team night in and night out, so the combination of losing him and having a new coach/system was very tough last year.

Now our coach/system aren't new. If we can manage not to lose any of our top 6 to injury, or Faulk, I think this team competitive enough to be in the mix -- and a miracle run to an 8 seed would turn the building right back into a madhouse for two games until we're eliminated.

That's all we need to care about for this year. That's enough.

That said -- I waited a while until I renewed this year to make my ticket rep sweat.

 

[CandyCanes]

Honestly best case scenario this year for the Canes would be to not re-sign Eric Staal this off season. Maybe give him some motivation to play for a slightly bigger contract.

See how the season goes, if we are fighting for a playoff spot keep him for the run.

If not flip him at the trade deadline. We should easily be able to get a 1st rounder + a very solid prospect for him.

Then we should have a really good chance at bringing him back on board the following season.

Yeah we have dealt with some lows with Eric Staal, but definitely one of the best players to play on our franchise and was key to winning our cup 2006. I really wanna see Staal finish off his career here. Would love to see another retirement night in 7-10 years





Also I question, anyone think Wardo could get his # retired here haha?

 

[Ole Gil]

Seems like the team always has nice'ish crowds after Christmas. Even if they stink, as long as they dont start as absurdly bad again, I think financially they're going to end up being fine for a couple more years.

Seems like the TV is where the money is.

 

[dogbazinho]

No, another bad season is pretty much doom. For it to help immediately it would have to be a top 3 pick and I just can't imagine attendance after another season like that. We keep screwing up bad seasons anyway, coming just short of a franchise player.

What I hope to see. Staal resigned for 6 million per/year or traded. Ward signed for even less or traded. Semin return to form and held onto. Whoever we draft not in the NHL.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Seems like the team always has nice'ish crowds after Christmas. Even if they stink, as long as they dont start as absurdly bad again, I think financially they're going to end up being fine for a couple more years.

Seems like the TV is where the money is.

Let's say the average price of tix+parking+concessions is $40/person (which I think is low).

Bad season: 10k people show up for each game. $40 x 10,000 x 41 games = $16.4 million.

Good season: 15k people show up for each game. $40 x 15,000 x 41 games = $24.6 million.

Maybe you don't think a delta of $8.2 million a year is a lot of money, but I'm pretty sure the organization does.

 

[golfpro827]

Let's say the average price of tix+parking+concessions is $40/person (which I think is low).

Bad season: 10k people show up for each game. $40 x 10,000 x 41 games = $16.4 million.

Good season: 15k people show up for each game. $40 x 15,000 x 41 games = $24.6 million.

Maybe you don't think a delta of $8.2 million a year is a lot of money, but I'm pretty sure the organization does.

Do not quote me, but I'm almost certain they do not get 100% of parking and concession revenue.

In my very limited and likely extremely underthinking approach, I imagine the contract works like this:

Canes pay PNC $x for use of the arena.
PNC collects all parking and concession revenue and also is responsible for salaries of staff, police, jumbotron, etc.

I imagine the contract assumes a bonus / reduction in payment if $x parking passes are sold / $x of revenue from concessions.

But in the end, I have no doubt that the Canes don't get 100% of that other stuff.

 

[VAcaniac]

No kidding.

A "good" night for attendance these days would have been a terrible night in 06-07.

I had gameceneter the entire season last year and didn't watch a single game. And I'm a diehard Canes fan...

I only go to Canes-Caps games because tickets are usually cheap and it gives me a good reason to hang out with friends and have a couple beers.

 

[Unsustainable]

I didn't re up for next season, it was costing me about 6k for 12 games.

But I live on the other side of the state and had to stay over night for games.

 

[Ole Gil]

Let's say the average price of tix+parking+concessions is $40/person (which I think is low).

Bad season: 10k people show up for each game. $40 x 10,000 x 41 games = $16.4 million.

Good season: 15k people show up for each game. $40 x 15,000 x 41 games = $24.6 million.

Maybe you don't think a delta of $8.2 million a year is a lot of money, but I'm pretty sure the organization does.

It is, but it's not enough to start wringing our hands over the the organization collapsing.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

No kidding.

A "good" night for attendance these days would have been a terrible night in 06-07.

I had gameceneter the entire season last year and didn't watch a single game. And I'm a diehard Canes fan...

I only go to Canes-Caps games because tickets are usually cheap and it gives me a good reason to hang out with friends and have a couple beers.

Between travelling/working a lot this year, I only watched one game all season. and no way was I going to pay to watch such a horror show as the leafs vs canes here in Toronto.

 

[RodTheBawd]

Well I watched probably all but 2 games this season. So there's that.

 

[What the Faulk]

I rapidly lost interest in the second half of the season. Pretty much from mid-Feburary on. Part of that was because of my social life, but I just didn't go out of my way to make time to watch anymore. It was boring, depressing, and just uninteresting. I didn't even go to a single game this year, and I moved back to Raleigh.

 

[jstaal]

hmm

I was thinking last night about next season and everything involved and I came to one conclusion: this team can win a stanley cup in 3-4 years if they are awful next year.

If this team finishes in the bottom 5 again, the following things likely would happen.

1. Carolina would get at worst a 6th pick in the 2016 draft
2. Carolina would get LA's first round pick
3. Carolina trades Eric Staal at the deadline (yes, I know he's got a NTC) and get's a first round pick in either 2016 or 2017 plus a young asset.
4. Carolina trades Cam Ward at the deadline (NTC again, got it) and get's probably a second round pick, maybe a 1.

For 2016 season, you now have Ward and Staal possibly back - and if they do come back, likely at a discounted rate.

You have young talent like Faulk who is now a veteran. Fluery, this years 5th pick and then another top 5 pick and possibly 3 more first round picks on the roster.

Take Semin's contract off the books - even if its 3 years down the round and now you have the money to really get a stud to solidify your top line.

This leads to being a hell of a team in 2018 - 2019.

Thoughts?

Stick to golf

 

[jstaal]

Every year the team goal is to win the Stanley Cup... Right?

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Do not quote me, but I'm almost certain they do not get 100% of parking and concession revenue.

In my very limited and likely extremely underthinking approach, I imagine the contract works like this:

Canes pay PNC $x for use of the arena.
PNC collects all parking and concession revenue and also is responsible for salaries of staff, police, jumbotron, etc.

I imagine the contract assumes a bonus / reduction in payment if $x parking passes are sold / $x of revenue from concessions.

But in the end, I have no doubt that the Canes don't get 100% of that other stuff.

No, of course that doesn't account for all expenditures, and it doesn't account for the structure of the various deals. But it does mean, without a doubt, that everybody associated with the organization makes less money when they're terrible for a whole season. Potentially a lot less money, since $40/head is probably conservative.

 

[Unsustainable]

Edmonton winning the draft screwed up the draft.

 

[CandyCanes]

Well I watched probably all but 2 games this season. So there's that.

I only missed 3, but I'll admit I wasn't into the games as much as I normally am. Usually watch games laptop free, but this year I was always mixing in being on my laptop/watching the games if I wasn't at PNC arena haha.

 

[NotOpie]

Honestly best case scenario this year for the Canes would be to not re-sign Eric Staal this off season. Maybe give him some motivation to play for a slightly bigger contract.

See how the season goes, if we are fighting for a playoff spot keep him for the run.

If not flip him at the trade deadline. We should easily be able to get a 1st rounder + a very solid prospect for him.

Then we should have a really good chance at bringing him back on board the following season.

Yeah we have dealt with some lows with Eric Staal, but definitely one of the best players to play on our franchise and was key to winning our cup 2006. I really wanna see Staal finish off his career here. Would love to see another retirement night in 7-10 years





Also I question, anyone think Wardo could get his # retired here haha?

Oh and then Eric has an 80 point season....hmmm, that sort of screws that logic. The best time to resign Eric, if that is the organization's intention is right now, based on his current level of performance and the Front Office's experts' opinion of where that performance is heading. Best thing in the world would be to sign him to a limited NMC contract for 4 years for $26-$30 million....hopefully at the lower end of the range.....and don't think he wouldn't get $7-$8 million per on the open market.