International & European Hockey Research and Information Thread

[Batis]

According to the game-by-game breakdown he had 36 goals.

http://www.statforum.5-games.ru/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=347

The Russian Hockey Encyclopedia from 1990 don't have him among the top 10 scorers (down to 21 goals) and the yearbook from 1964 have 34 goals.

The hockeypedia (Russian player stats database) also have 36 goals.

Thank you. So the more contemporary sources (game-logs and the yearbook) have him scoring 36 or 34 goals. This makes me think that those numbers are more reliable. To me it seems more likely that Firsov was forgotten on the top 10 list than that the game-by-game breakdown would include 16-17 goals that he never scored.

 

[Theokritos]

For the record: everything that's been added lately (Czech players of the century, Swedish All-star teams, Soviet scoring stars) will be included in a revised and "stream-lined" version of this thread which is currently in the works.

 

[Batis]

I had never really paid attention to that Hockeyarchives has the Second All-Star Teams for many WHC tournaments. I personally think that it is very interesting to see these teams. Two noteworthy and strange selections is that Vladimir Martinec was on both the first and second team in 1974 and Alexei Kasatonov was on both teams in 1986. I have no idea how those selections happened. Considering that Martinec is listed as the RW on the first team and the LW on the second team (where Mikhailov is the RW) it may be possible that something like the Ovechkin NHL all-star selection in 2013 happened. Or what are your theories?

Another noteworthy thing is that Jiri Lala was the second team all-star RW at 3 tournaments in a row (1982, 1983, 1985). All of them behind Makarov.

Second All-Star Teams WHC

WHC 1974
Vladislav Tretiak ; Alexander Gusev - Oldrich Machac ; Vladimir Martinec* - Veli-Pekka Ketola - Boris Mikhailov

WHC 1982
James Corsi ; Miroslav Dvorak - Craig Hartsburg ; Sergei Kapustin - Sergei Shepelev - Jiri Lala

WHC 1983
Jiri Kralik ; Paul Reinhart - Craig Hartsburg ; Andrei Khomutov - Marcel Dionne - Jiri Lala

WHC 1985
John Vanbiesbrouck ; Miroslav Horava - Antonin Stavjana ; Pavel Richter - Mario Lemieux - Jiri Lala

WHC 1986
Chris Terreri ; Kari Eloranta - Alexei Kasatonov** ; Hannu Järvenpää - Brent Sutter - Thomas Steen

WHC 1987
Peter Lindmark ; Craig Hartsburg - Alexei Kasatonov ; Tony Tanti - Dusan Pasek - Kevin Dineen

WHC 1990
Arturs Irbe ; Paul Coffey - Anders Eldebrink ; Valeri Kamensky - Kent Nilsson - Pavel Bure

WHC 1991
Markus Ketterer ; James Macoun - Dmitri Mironov ; Mats Sundin - Theoren Fleury - Pavel Bure

WHC 1992
Petr Briza ; Leo Gudas - Robert Svehla ; Dieter Hegen - Mika Nieminen - Tomas Jelinek

WHC 1993
Bill Ranford ; Leo Gudas - Drahomir Kadlec ; Andrei Khomutov - Vyacheslav Bykov - Mark Recchi

WHC 1996
Curtis Joseph ; Drahomir Kadlec - Glen Wesley ; Sergei Berezin - Alexei Yashin - Kevin Stevens

WHC 1997
Sean Burke ; Markus Ragnarsson - Mattias Öhlund ; Alexander Prokopiev - Saku Koivu - Alexander Korolyuk

WHC 1998
Ari Sulander ; Marko Kiprusoff - Mattias Öhlund ; Sergei Berezin - Pavel Patera - Marcel Jenni

WHC 2000
Jose Theodore ; Zdeno Chara - Phil Housley ; Lubos Bartecko - Michal Handzus - David Vyborny

WHC 2001
Pasi Nurminen ; Sami Salo - Pavel Kubina ; Timo Pärssinen - Juha Ylönen - Viktor Ujcik

WHC 2004
Jan Lasak ; Richard Lintner - Scott Niedermayer ; Daniel Alfredsson - Pavol Demitra - Richard Park

* Should probably be Hedberg instead of Martinec.
** Should probably be Potvin instead of Kasatonov

The only year where we have both the second team all-star and the full voting results is 1974.

1974
GOALIE:Curt Larsson 43, Vladislav Tretjak 38, Jiri Holecek (vote count missing), Christer Abrahamsson 14, Stig Wetzell 2, Antti Leppänen 1, Jorma Valtonen 1

DEFENSE:Lars-Erik Sjöberg 72, Valeri Vasiljev 68, Oldrich Machac (no votes mentioned), Aleksander Gusev 25, Heikki Riihiranta 8, Jiri Bubla 5, Thommy Abrahamsson 5, Seppo Lindström 3, Milan Kuzela 2, Jan Suchy 2, Gennadi Tsigankov 2, Juri Ljapkin 1,

FORWARD:Vladimir Martinec 82, Vaclav Nedomansky 58, Aleksandr Jakushev 45, Boris Mihailov 44, Anders Hedberg 28, Aleksandr Maltsev 18, Veli-Pekka Ketola 16, Valeri Harlamov 15, Sergei Kapustin 7, Vladimir Petrov 6, Ivan Hlinka 5, Vladimir Shadrin 3, Willy Lindström 2, Esa Peltonen 2, Jiri Holik 1, Ulf Nilsson 1, Lasse Oksanen 1, Juhani Tamminen 1

The defencemen selections are fully logical. The two first in the voting on the first team and number three and four on the second team. The same with goaltenders. It is the forward position on the second team that is a headscratcher. On the first team Yakushev was the Left Wing, Nedomansky the Center and Martinec the Right Wing. Completely logical. On the second team Mikhailov was the RW (also logical as he was the second highest votegetter among RWs) but as earlier mentioned Martinec was the second team LW despite being on the first team and Ketola was the second team Center ahead of Maltsev even if Maltsev had more points in the voting. Ketola ahead of Maltsev can of course be explained by Maltsev probably being a Right Winger in this tournament which would make Ketola the second highest votegetter among Centers. But the Martinec at Left Wing selection is harder to explain. Is it possible that the positions were set in the voting and that enough voters considered Martinec a Left Winger in this tournament for him to take the second team left wing position? Like the Ovechkin example. But that still doesnt fully explain why Kasatonov was on both teams in 1986.

 

[Theokritos]

I had never really paid attention to that Hockeyarchives has the Second All-Star Teams for many WHC tournaments. I personally think that it is very interesting to see these teams. Two noteworthy and strange selections is that Vladimir Martinec was on both the first and second team in 1974 and Alexei Kasatonov was on both teams in 1986. I have no idea how those selections happened. Considering that Martinec is listed as the RW on the first team and the LW on the second team (where Mikhailov is the RW) it may be possible that something like the Ovechkin NHL all-star selection in 2013 happened. Or what are your theories?

Pretty sure Hockeyarchives simply got these wrong. No time to check it right now, but I can give it a look later today.

 

[Theokritos]

Two noteworthy and strange selections is that Vladimir Martinec was on both the first and second team in 1974 and Alexei Kasatonov was on both teams in 1986. I have no idea how those selections happened.

I got to stick with the explanation that Hockeyarchives is simply wrong here. Slips and mix-ups are nothing unheard of with that site: they have Josef Černý on the 1968 World Championship All-star team when in reality it was František Ševčík in his place (for confirmation see Czech Wikipedia among others), they leave out Aleksandr Yakushev's 3rd place finish in 1973 Soviet player of the Year voting and they confuse Martinec with Kharlamov as the best forward at the 1976 World Championship.

Kasatonov 1986: The Russian version of Wikipedia has the following second All-star team (Вторая Сборная всех звёзд): Chris Terreri; Kari Eloranta, Denis Potvin (!); Hannu Järvenpää, Brent Sutter, Tomas Steen. I bet it's a mistake that Kasatonov appears on the second team instead of Potvin on Hockeyarchives.

Martinec 1974: I doubt the Ovechkin fiasco is a good comparable since NHL All-star voting is done by separate forward positions so that nothing technically prevents a forward from appearing in more than one category (LW and RW in Ovechkin's case). The World Championship All-stars however were pretty obviously not determined by separate votings for each forward position as per what Sanf has posted (which is sourced from a Finnish yearbook compiled and published in the 1974 offseason). There was a single vote on all forwards and then the forwards were artificially separated by position to create an All-star team with one LW, one C and one RW. There is no way Martinec could have made the first team at RW and the second team at LW. Conclusion: another slip by Hockeyarchives. The voting results we've got reveal the actual All-star teams:

1) Martinec 82 (RW → first team RW)
2) Nedomanský 58 (C → first team C)
3) Yakushev 45 (LW → first team LW)
4) Mikhailov 44 (RW → second team RW)
5) Hedberg 28 (mostly LW in this tournament → second team LW)
6) Maltsev 18 (mostly RW in this tournament → #3 RW)
7) Ketola 16 (C → second team C)
etc.

 

[Theokritos]

These are the first and second World Championship All-star teams (not all of them complete) we get by using the available voting records (gathered here) under the positional provisions outlined directly above in post 105.

1965
1st: Vladimir Dzurilla; František Tikal, Aleksandr Ragulin; Jaroslav Jiřík, Aleksandr Almetov, Konstantin Loktev
2nd: Tom Haugh; Gary Begg, Viktor Kuzkin; Veniamin Aleksandrov, Vyacheslav Starshinov, Ronald Pettersson

1968
1st: Ken Broderick; Jan Suchý, Lennart Svedberg; Anatoli Firsov, Fran Huck, František Ševčík
2nd: Urpo Ylönen; Marshall Johnston, Viktor Blinov; ? (LW), Viktor Polupanov/Vyacheslav Starshinov (both C, both tied), Vladimir Vikulov

1969
1st: Vladimír Dzurilla; Jan Suchý, Lennart Svedberg; Anatoli Firsov, Ulf Sterner, Václav Nedomanský
2nd: Leif Holmqvist; Igor Romishevsky, Oldřich Machač; Valeri Kharlamov, Jaroslav Holík, ? (RW)

1970
1st: Viktor Konovalenko; Jan Suchý, Lennart Svedberg; Anatoli Firsov, Aleksandr Maltsev, Václav Nedomanský
2nd: Leif Holmqvist; Tommy Abrahamsson, Dietmar Peters/Lars-Erik Sjöberg (both tied); Valeri Kharlamov, Vyacheslav Starshinov, Håkan Wickberg

1971
1st: Jiří Holeček; Jan Suchý, Ilpo Koskela; Anatoli Firsov, Aleksandr Maltsev, Vladimir Vikulov
2nd: Jorma Valtonen; Seppo Lindström, George Konik/Josef Horešovský (both tied); Valeri Kharlamov, Václav Nedomanský, Gary Gambucci

1972
1st: Jiří Holeček; Oldřich Machač, František Pospíšil; Valeri Kharlamov, Aleksandr Maltsev, Vladimir Vikulov
2nd: Alfred Molina; Josef Horešovský, Vladimir Lutchenko; Aleksandr Yakushev, Jaroslav Holík, Jan Klapáč

1974
1st: Curt Larsson, Lars-Erik Sjöberg, Valeri Vasilyev; Aleksandr Yakushev, Václav Nedomanský, Vladimír Martinec
2nd: Vladislav Tretyak; Oldřich Machač, Aleksandr Gusev; Valeri Kharlamov, Aleksandr Maltsev, Boris Mikhailov

 

[Batis]

Kasatonov 1986: The Russian version of Wikipedia has the following second All-star team (Вторая Сборная всех звёзд): Chris Terreri; Kari Eloranta, Denis Potvin (!); Hannu Järvenpää, Brent Sutter, Tomas Steen. I bet it's a mistake that Kasatonov appears on the second team instead of Potvin on Hockeyarchives.

Martinec 1974: I doubt the Ovechkin fiasco is a good comparable since NHL All-star voting is done by separate forward positions so that nothing technically prevents a forward from appearing in more than one category (LW and RW in Ovechkin's case). The World Championship All-stars however were pretty obviously not determined by separate votings for each forward position as per what Sanf has posted (which is sourced from a Finnish yearbook compiled and published in the 1974 offseason). There was a single vote on all forwards and then the forwards were artificially separated by position to create an All-star team with one LW, one C and one RW. There is no way Martinec could have made the first team at RW and the second team at LW. Conclusion: another slip by Hockeyarchives. The voting results we've got reveal the actual All-star teams:

1) Martinec 82 (RW → first team RW)
2) Nedomanský 58 (C → first team C)
3) Yakushev 45 (LW → first team LW)
4) Mikhailov 44 (RW → second team RW)
5) Hedberg 28 (mostly LW in this tournament → second team LW)
6) Maltsev 18 (mostly RW in this tournament → #3 RW)
7) Ketola 16 (C → second team C)
etc.

Thank you for the help. I agree with your explanation. It seems likely that it was Potvin in 1986 and Hedberg in 1974 instead of Kasatonov and Martinec.

Yes considering how the full voting results that Sanf posted looks I also thought it seemed weird that it was something like the Ovechkin scenario. I guess I just got caught up in trying to find a possible explanation.

 

[VMBM]

they confuse Martinec with Kharlamov as the best forward at the 1976 World Championship.

Not just their confusion. It appears in many other sources too that are not related to the Hockeyarchives at all. For example, a Finnish sports book called "Huippu-urheilun maailma 2" (1979) has Kharlamov winning the award in 1976, and many Kharlamov bios have this information too.
Another common error at least in old Finnish sources is that Alexander Maltsev won the IIHF Best Forward award also in 1971 instead of Firsov, which is obviously wrong and luckily hasn't 'spread' so widely as the Martinec-Kharlamov confusion.

I'm just wondering if there were some 'alternative'/additional awards that were given at the old World Championships that have created these confusions.

 

[MadArcand]

Today in an antique bookstore I was able to find a Slovak hockey yearbook for 1985/86. It appears to contain all the league stats of all players, all results, all international results and game logs for world championships and other tournaments, minor and junior league tables etc., even foreign leagues get tables and some stats (including truly obscure leagues like Spanish or Yugoslavian ones); plus there seems to be a complete voting for Golden Stick and some other Czechoslovak hockey awards in there; and some articles on specific players (off top of my head I saw a Larionov one). I'll have a better look once back home.

Anyway, this means that such a detailed source should/might be available for a lot more seasons... just a matter of finding them.

 

[Theokritos]

there seems to be a complete voting for Golden Stick and some other Czechoslovak hockey awards in there

Now this could get really interesting!

 

[MadArcand]

Now this could get really interesting!

More specifically:

Golden Stick (apparently by magazine Goal)
- top 20 players are listed, with the voting point totals
- winners from 1969 onwards are also listed, but I think we know those already..?
1. Vladimir Ruzicka 883
2. Igor Liba 779
3. Jiri Hrdina 629
4. Dominik Hasek 587
5. Petr Rosol 488
6. Antonin Stavjana 228
7. Mojmir Bozik 227
8. Peter Slanina 225
9. Jan Vodila 217
10. Jaromir Sindel 213
11. Dusan Pasek 144
12. Jaroslav Benak 116
13. Otakar Janecky 112
14. Vladimir Caldr 86
15. Jiri Sejba 74
16. Frantisek Prochazka 68
17. Oldrich Valek 47
18. Miroslav Horava 42
19. Arnold Kadlec 41
20. Karel Lang 35


Strangely this is less detailed than the Tip Top award (by magazine Tip), which also has voting system explained - votes from NT and league coaches forming the basis and then votes from 'experts' (I assume journalists?) added atop it. It's also separated in three categories - goalie, defense and forward. I will not list the points for each part, but it's interesting that the coaches e.g. didn't vote Hasek 1st.

Goalie:
1. Hasek 53
2. Briza 27
3. Sindel 25
4. Svarny 19
5. Lang 10
6. Svoboda 3

Defense:
1. Bozik 43
2. Slanina 33
3. Stavjana 23
4. Benak 11
5. Bondra 10
6. Kadlec 8
7. Prochazka 8
8. Radvan 1

Forward:
1. Liba 53
2. Ruzicka 51
3. Vodila 11
4. Rosol 11
5. Hrdina 6
6. Janecky 3
7.-8. Lala & Valek 1

It also lists the previous winners from 1978 onwards:
1978 - Holecek, Bubla, Novy
1979 - Kralik, Bukovinsky, Marian Stastny
1980 - Kralik, Kaberle, Peter Stastny
1981 - Gula, Dvorak, Novy
1982 - Kralik, Dvorak, Novy
1983 - Kralik, Chalupa, Lukac
1984 - Sindel, Chalupa, Liba
1985 - Kralik, Horava, Ruzicka

European Golden Stick (Izvestia trophy) - 355 ballots:
1. Jiri Kralik 334 (102-17-4)
2. Sergei Makarov 313 (89-23-0)
3. Viacheslav Fetisov 285 (62-47-5)
4. Jiri Lala 249 (37-64-10)
5. Vladimir Krutov 192 (23-51-21)
6. Alexei Kasatonov 89 (16-18-5)
7. Vladimir Ruzicka 82 (19-12-1)
8. Kent Nilsson 52 (0-23-6)
9. Jiri Sejba 49 (7-3-22)
10. Hannu Jarvenpaa 23 (0-9-5)

Previous winners since 1978 are also listed, including the number of ballots and total points (should I list them?).

Then there's all-time league goalscorers (about top 60?), fairly detailed season stats leaders (SV%, +/-), rosters of all teams which include season and career stats of each player, game logs of playoff games, friendly tournaments, lower leagues, junior leagues, other nations' leagues, game logs of world champs, complete individual scoring stats on world's, articles on Larionov, Potvin, Hasek and Bozik, all-time team stats on World's, all-time Czechoslovakia records vs. opponents on World's and overall and finally lower level of WCs and WJCs.

If any of the aforementioned is of interest, I can provide it.


Also, it seems the city library does have the yearbooks for seasons 78-80 & 82-88, so maybe I could try to get access to those (if that seems worthwhile at all?). They also seem to be available in some online antique bookstores, but at rather expensive prices (15-50 or even more EUR, I got mine for 4e).

 

[Theokritos]

Golden Stick (apparently by magazine Goal)
- top 20 players are listed, with the voting point totals
- winners from 1969 onwards are also listed, but I think we know those already..?

We actually got the complete voting results for the Czechoslovak Golden Stick, from the winner down to the guys who received a single vote only. See here.

Strangely this is less detailed than the Tip Top award (by magazine Tip), which also has voting system explained - votes from NT and league coaches forming the basis and then votes from 'experts' (I assume journalists?) added atop it. It's also separated in three categories - goalie, defense and forward. I will not list the points for each part, but it's interesting that the coaches e.g. didn't vote Hasek 1st.

Goalie:
1. Hasek 53
2. Briza 27
3. Sindel 25
4. Svarny 19
5. Lang 10
6. Svoboda 3

Defense:
1. Bozik 43
2. Slanina 33
3. Stavjana 23
4. Benak 11
5. Bondra 10
6. Kadlec 8
7. Prochazka 8
8. Radvan 1

Forward:
1. Liba 53
2. Ruzicka 51
3. Vodila 11
4. Rosol 11
5. Hrdina 6
6. Janecky 3
7.-8. Lala & Valek 1

Now this is new and a great addition. So far we were restriced to this:

Best Players - Weekly Poll by Tip Magazine

The title says "Anketa týdeníku" (Weekly Poll). Would be interesting to know how the final rankings for the whole seasons were determined. The source for 76-77 is http://www.passionhockey.com/Archives.html > 1976/77 > Tchécoslovaquie. The source for the other years is http://statshockey.webnode.cz/all-stars/top/.

1976-1977:
Vladimír Dzurilla (G, Bratislava); Jiří Bubla (D, Litvínov); Milan Nový (F, Kladno)

1977-1978:
Jiří Holeček (G, Sparta); Jiří Bubla (D, Litvínov); Milan Nový (F, Kladno)

(...)

1990-1991:
Petr Bříza (G, Sparta); Bedřich Ščerban (D, Jihlava); Ľubomír Kolník (F, Trenčín)

1991-1992:
Oldřich Svoboda (G, Jihlava); Robert Švehla (D, Trenčín); Žigmund Pálffy (F, Trenčín)

Would be fantastic if you posted everything you got in the International and European Reference thread when you got time. No need to hurry though, take your time. For the moment it's nice enough to know we got this info available.

As for the voting system: is there any explanation how this was a "weekly" poll?

European Golden Stick (Izvestia trophy) - 355 ballots:
1. Jiri Kralik 334 (102-17-4)
2. Sergei Makarov 313 (89-23-0)
3. Viacheslav Fetisov 285 (62-47-5)
4. Jiri Lala 249 (37-64-10)
5. Vladimir Krutov 192 (23-51-21)
6. Alexei Kasatonov 89 (16-18-5)
7. Vladimir Ruzicka 82 (19-12-1)
8. Kent Nilsson 52 (0-23-6)
9. Jiri Sejba 49 (7-3-22)
10. Hannu Jarvenpaa 23 (0-9-5)

Another great addition. We've been looking for full European/Izvestia Golden Stick results for quite some time.

Previous winners since 1978 are also listed, including the number of ballots and total points (should I list them?).

Yes please!

 

[Sanf]

...If any of the aforementioned is of interest, I can provide it.

These would be absolutely great!

European Golden Stick (Izvestia trophy) - 355 ballots:
1. Jiri Kralik 334 (102-17-4)
2. Sergei Makarov 313 (89-23-0)
3. Viacheslav Fetisov 285 (62-47-5)
4. Jiri Lala 249 (37-64-10)
5. Vladimir Krutov 192 (23-51-21)
6. Alexei Kasatonov 89 (16-18-5)
7. Vladimir Ruzicka 82 (19-12-1)
8. Kent Nilsson 52 (0-23-6)
9. Jiri Sejba 49 (7-3-22)
10. Hannu Jarvenpaa 23 (0-9-5)

Not that surprised, but slightly disapointed. Atleast this years voting would strongly imply that Golden Stick voting might have been just sort of "best player in WHC" award. 7 of the top 6 were All-Star selections in 85 WHC´s. Other four in top ten were top ten in points in the same WHC´s. Realisticly speaking voters did not have very good chance to evaluate players from their whole year performance.

 

[MadArcand]

As for the voting system: is there any explanation how this was a "weekly" poll?

I think it was not a weekly poll at all.

Tip was a weekly magazine. But the poll seems yearly. The exact text in the yearbook:

The "TOP 1986" poll of Tip
Hasek - Bozik - Liba

In the 9th year of the expert weekly magazine for football and hockey Tip's poll for the best hockey players of Czechoslovakia on the positions of goalie, defenseman and forward, the winners were the NT members Dominik Hasek, Mojmir Bozik & Igor Liba. The basis was expert rating by the hockey union head coach Karel Gut (based on league matches), rating by the NT coaches Jan Starsi and Frantisek Pospisil, and by the coaches of league teams (after the whole season was over). The point rating in the coaches/expert voting (1st to 5th place) was as follows: 20-15-10-5-3 points. In the poll, journalists/experts choose the 3 best for each position and these receive 3-2-1 points.

Yes please!

There's also this text explaining the voting procedure for Izvestia:

Each year after the World's are over, the journalists of the Old World select the best European player. After the World's in Prague, the owners of the soviet Izvestia newspaper received 355 ballots, and according to those - for the first time in the 7 years the award has been awarded - a player outside the USSR received the award - Jiri Kralik of Czechoslovakia. He received 107 1st, 17 2nd and 4 3rd place votes. The points awarded for 1st-2nd-3rd place votes have been 3-2-1.

As for the previous winners:
1978-79 (588 ballots) Boris Mikhailov 435 pts (120-27-21)
1979-80 (426 ballots) Sergei Makarov 562 pts (137-62-27)
1980-81 (458 ballots) Vladislav Tretiak 462 pts (119-51-3)
1981-82 (385 ballots) Vladislav Tretiak 224 pts (61-11-19)
1982-83 (372 ballots) Vladislav Tretiak 346 pts (82-43-14)
1983-84 (387 ballots) Viacheslav Fetisov 316 pts (96-10-8)

 

[MadArcand]

These would be absolutely great!

Which of the information mentioned exactly?

Not that surprised, but slightly disapointed. Atleast this years voting would strongly imply that Golden Stick voting might have been just sort of "best player in WHC" award. 7 of the top 6 were All-Star selections in 85 WHC´s. Other four in top ten were top ten in points in the same WHC´s. Realisticly speaking voters did not have very good chance to evaluate players from their whole year performance.

It does very much stink of that indeed.

 

[Theokritos]

I think it was not a weekly poll at all.

Tip was a weekly magazine. But the poll seems yearly. The exact text in the yearbook:

The "TOP 1986" poll of Tip
Hasek - Bozik - Liba

In the 9th year of the expert weekly magazine for football and hockey Tip's poll for the best hockey players of Czechoslovakia on the positions of goalie, defenseman and forward, the winners were the NT members Dominik Hasek, Mojmir Bozik & Igor Liba. The basis was expert rating by the hockey union head coach Karel Gut (based on league matches), rating by the NT coaches Jan Starsi and Frantisek Pospisil, and by the coaches of league teams (after the whole season was over). The point rating in the coaches/expert voting (1st to 5th place) was as follows: 20-15-10-5-3 points. In the poll, journalists/experts choose the 3 best for each position and these receive 3-2-1 points.

Very nice, thanks a lot. I clearly misunderstood "Anketa týdeníku"! It means poll by the weekly [Tip magazine], not weekly poll [by Tip magazine].
The full "Tip" poll results are highly valuable for us as we can compare them with the full Golden Stick results to get a more complete picture of Czechoslovak hockey than we ever had before.

There's also this text explaining the voting procedure for Izvestia:

Each year after the World's are over, the journalists of the Old World select the best European player. After the World's in Prague, the owners of the soviet Izvestia newspaper received 355 ballots, and according to those - for the first time in the 7 years the award has been awarded - a player outside the USSR received the award - Jiri Kralik of Czechoslovakia. He received 107 1st, 17 2nd and 4 3rd place votes. The points awarded for 1st-2nd-3rd place votes have been 3-2-1.

As for the previous winners:
1978-79 (588 ballots) Boris Mikhailov 435 pts (120-27-21)
1979-80 (426 ballots) Sergei Makarov 562 pts (137-62-27)
1980-81 (458 ballots) Vladislav Tretiak 462 pts (119-51-3)
1981-82 (385 ballots) Vladislav Tretiak 224 pts (61-11-19)
1982-83 (372 ballots) Vladislav Tretiak 346 pts (82-43-14)
1983-84 (387 ballots) Viacheslav Fetisov 316 pts (96-10-8)

 

[Sanf]

Which of the information mentioned exactly?


It does very much stink of that indeed.

Sorry misunderstood and quoted wrong bit. I ment that if you can get hold of the other yearbooks it would be great to have those from other years.

 

[Batis]

Not that surprised, but slightly disapointed. Atleast this years voting would strongly imply that Golden Stick voting might have been just sort of "best player in WHC" award. 7 of the top 6 were All-Star selections in 85 WHC´s. Other four in top ten were top ten in points in the same WHC´s. Realisticly speaking voters did not have very good chance to evaluate players from their whole year performance.

While I agree that the international performance most likely was very important when it came to finishing high in the Izvestia golden stick voting I also want to point out that there is some examples from other years which suggests that other things also was taken into consideration.

- Vladislav Tretiak winning the Izvestia golden stick in both 1981 and 1982 despite not making the WHC all-star team in those years. At the 1982 WHC Tretiak did not even make the 2nd all-star team.

- Neither of the two all-star defencemen at the 1982 WHC (Fetisov and Kasatonov) was top 8 in the Izvestia golden stick voting that year. Two other defencemen (Dvorak and Vasiliev) finished top 8. Of those Dvorak made the 2nd all-star team at the WHC while Vasiliev did note make any of the all-star teams.

- Sergei Makarov and Vladimir Krutov finishing 1st and 2nd among forwards in the 1984 Izvestia golden stick voting (4th and 5th overall) despite having a for their standard quite unproductive Olympic tournament that year.

- Milan Novy finishing 2nd in the Izvestia golden stick voting in 1982 even if he had a fairly unproductive WHC tournament where he did not make the 1st or 2nd all-star team.

 

[MadArcand]

While I agree that the international performance most likely was very important when it came to finishing high in the Izvestia golden stick voting I also want to point out that there is some examples from other years which suggests that other things also was taken into consideration.

- Vladislav Tretiak winning the Izvestia golden stick in both 1981 and 1982 despite not making the WHC all-star team in those years. At the 1982 WHC Tretiak did not even make the 2nd all-star team.

- Neither of the two all-star defencemen at the 1982 WHC (Fetisov and Kasatonov) was top 8 in the Izvestia golden stick voting that year. Two other defencemen (Dvorak and Vasiliev) finished top 8. Of those Dvorak made the 2nd all-star team at the WHC while Vasiliev did note make any of the all-star teams.

- Sergei Makarov and Vladimir Krutov finishing 1st and 2nd among forwards in the 1984 Izvestia golden stick voting (4th and 5th overall) despite having a for their standard quite unproductive Olympic tournament that year.

- Milan Novy finishing 2nd in the Izvestia golden stick voting in 1982 even if he had a fairly unproductive WHC tournament where he did not make the 1st or 2nd all-star team.

It would be good to know how well the players in question performed at other international tournaments & friendlies (particularly the Izvestia Cup, because I suspect a lot if not the most of the voters were Russians and would see the teams playing there, and also consider the tournament pretty important).

 

[Batis]

It would be good to know how well the players in question performed at other international tournaments & friendlies (particularly the Izvestia Cup, because I suspect a lot if not the most of the voters were Russians and would see the teams playing there, and also consider the tournament pretty important).

The Izvestia tournament definitely seems to have been a important factor in the Izvestia golden stick voting also. Tretiak was voted best goalie at the Izvestia tournament during both the 80/81 and 81/82 season. Dvorak was voted best defenceman during the 81/82 season and if I remember correctly Makarov was the leading scorer at the Izvestia tournament during the 83/84 season.

 

[Theokritos]

- Neither of the two all-star defencemen at the 1982 WHC (Fetisov and Kasatonov) was top 8 in the Izvestia golden stick voting that year. Two other defencemen (Dvorak and Vasiliev) finished top 8.

You'd think that if the Izvestia voting was not so much based on international play but more on domestic performance then the one metric it would somewhat have to chime with are the results of the Soviet player of the year voting where all the Soviet sports journalist determined the best player of their country. Not that they didn't consider international competition too, I'm absolutely convinced they did, but if we don't find any reflexion of Soviet league play here in this voting then I don't know where else. I mean those guys followed the league all season long, saw the best teams and players in action quite regularly in Moscow, and to whom do they hand the crown as the best Soviet player of the 1981-1982 season? Here is the answer:

1) Vyacheslav Fetisov (D, CSKA) 116 (22-17-16)
2) Sergey Makarov (F, CSKA) 102 (25-9-9)
3) Vladislav Tretyak (G, CSKA) 63 (10-11-11)
...

Fetisov and Makarov own the stage, but neither is among the top 5 in the Izvestia voting. It doesn't make any sense to me at the moment.

But maybe the assumption is wrong that the Soviet voting gives any significant reflection of Soviet league performances? Maybe international play was all that mattered? Well, then someone please explain to me how international play is supposed to have played a smaller role in the Izvestia voting when the same group of Soviet voters was complemented by voters from the rest of Europe who hardly had ample opportunity to follow the Soviet league as closely as the international competitions. An odd situation, no matter how you turn it.

 

[Batis]

You'd think that if the Izvestia voting was not so much based on international play but more on domestic performance then the one metric it would somewhat have to chime with are the results of the Soviet player of the year voting where all the Soviet sports journalist determined the best player of their country. Not that they didn't consider international competition too, I'm absolutely convinced they did, but if we don't find any reflexion of Soviet league play here in this voting then I don't know where else. I mean those guys followed the league all season long, saw the best teams and players in action quite regularly in Moscow, and to whom do they hand the crown as the best Soviet player of the 1981-1982 season? Here is the answer:

1) Vyacheslav Fetisov (D, CSKA) 116 (22-17-16)
2) Sergey Makarov (F, CSKA) 102 (25-9-9)
3) Vladislav Tretyak (G, CSKA) 63 (10-11-11)
...

Fetisov and Makarov own the stage, but neither is among the top 5 in the Izvestia voting. It doesn't make any sense to me at the moment.


But maybe the assumption is wrong that the Soviet voting gives any significant reflection of Soviet league performances? Maybe international play was all that mattered? Well, then someone please explain to me how international play is supposed to have played a smaller role in the Izvestia voting when the same group of Soviet voters was complemented by voters from the rest of Europe who hardly had ample opportunity to follow the Soviet league as closely as the international competitions. An odd situation, no matter how you turn it.

I agree that the 1982 Izvestia golden stick voting results are a real headscratcher. I also have a hard time finding any explanation for Makarovs and especially Fetisovs weak voting support in the golden stick voting compared to their very strong support in the Soviet player of the year voting that year.

The best example of that domestic performances may have been given atleast some consideration in the Izvestia golden stick voting can also be found in 1982. As I mentioned before Milan Novy finished 2nd in the voting even if he seemingly did not have a very strong season internationally. Novy only had 4 points in 10 games at the WHC and did not make the 1st or 2nd all-star team of that tournament. In the beginning of the season Novy scored 3 points in 6 games at the 1981 Canada Cup. Hardly a dominant performance either. He was not voted the best forward at the Izvestia tournament during the 81/82 season either. I don't have time right now for looking up Novys stats in the Izvestia tournament and the Rude Pravo tournament that season but I might do that later. But to me it seems that Novys dominant performance domestically (runaway scoring champion) played atleast some part in his 2nd place finish in the Izvestia golden stick voting that season.

I personally think that the international performances (both in major and minor tournaments) was the most important part of the Izvestia golden stick voting but that domestic performances may have been taken into consideration to a certain degree. I'm pretty sure that it was not only the WHC/Olympics that mattered because then it would be extremely strange that Tretiak and Novy was 1st and 2nd in 1982 even if neither of them made the 1st or 2nd all-star team at that years WHC.

 

[Theokritos]

I personally think that the international performances (both in major and minor tournaments) was the most important part of the Izvestia golden stick voting but that domestic performances may have been taken into consideration to a certain degree. I'm pretty sure that it was not only the WHC/Olympics that mattered because then it would be extremely strange that Tretiak and Novy was 1st and 2nd in 1982 even if neither of them made the 1st or 2nd all-star team at that years WHC.

To me it seems a bit like the domestic voters (Soviet voters for Soviet players, Czechoslovak voters for Czechoslovak players etc.) based their voting on both domestic and international performance (like in the Soviet Best Player voting and the Czechoslovak Golden Stick voting) while the foreign voters (Soviet voters for all non-Soviet players, Czechoslovak voters for all non-Czechoslovak voters) were mostly guided by international performance. So you can kind of take the Soviet Best Player voting as the base and then add the same number or a larger number of non-Soviet votes with an almost exclusively international focus.

Still some odd results that will probably be hard to explain.

 

[Batis]

To me it seems a bit like the domestic voters (Soviet voters for Soviet players, Czechoslovak voters for Czechoslovak players etc.) based their voting on both domestic and international performance (like in the Soviet Best Player voting and the Czechoslovak Golden Stick voting) while the foreign voters (Soviet voters for all non-Soviet players, Czechoslovak voters for all non-Czechoslovak voters) were mostly guided by international performance. So you can kind of take the Soviet Best Player voting as the base and then add the same number or a larger number of non-Soviet votes with an almost exclusively international focus.

Still some odd results that will probably be hard to explain.

I agree with this explanation. Which of course would mean that the combined effort from the voters would mainly focus on the international performances but with some consideration of the domestic performances.

 

[Robert Gordon Orr]

To me it seems a bit like the domestic voters (Soviet voters for Soviet players, Czechoslovak voters for Czechoslovak players etc.) based their voting on both domestic and international performance (like in the Soviet Best Player voting and the Czechoslovak Golden Stick voting) while the foreign voters (Soviet voters for all non-Soviet players, Czechoslovak voters for all non-Czechoslovak voters) were mostly guided by international performance. So you can kind of take the Soviet Best Player voting as the base and then add the same number or a larger number of non-Soviet votes with an almost exclusively international focus.

Still some odd results that will probably be hard to explain.

All these votings are a bit confusing.

Information taken from the book 'Malá Encyklopedie Ledniho Hokeje' (The small encyclopedia of ice hockey). Hopefully I got it all right.

Czechoslovakia Golden Stick voting: This started in 1968 as an award given by the weekly sports magazine Gól that covered both football and hockey (Soviet equivalent was the Футбол-Хоккей (Football-Hockey) magazine).The coaches voted for the 10 best players in each quarter of the league season. Domestic and international performances were taken into account. Ten points was given to the guy they had in first place, nine points to the second, etc. At the end of the season, journalists were allowed to vote. The journalist votes was a summary vote for the entire season.


TOP: This Czechoslovakian 'best player of the year award' since 1977/78 was given by another weekly football and hockey magazine, named TIP Sport. The ones who voted were all the league coaches, national team coaches and people in the coaching committee. They voted for the best goalie, defenseman and forward (coaches from 1982/83). I believe both domestic and international games were taken into account here.The top player on the initial ballot got 20 points, the runner-up 15, then 10, 5 and 3 points.Then in the final 'positional voting' when the candidates had been choosen, the players got 3,2 and 1 point.

Anketa internacionálů: This was an award given to the best Czechoslovakian athlete chosen from the two most popular sports in the country, football and hockey. The award was first handed out in 1965 initiated by the daily newspaper Mladá Fronta. Those who voted were only former national team players from these two sports. The first twenty years of winners in the hockey section included:

1965 – Jiri Holik
1966 – Vladimir Nadrchal
1967 – Jan Suchý
1968 – Jan Suchý
1969 – Vacláv Nedomanský
1970 – Frantisek Pospisil
1971 - Frantisek Pospisil
1972 - Frantisek Pospisil
1973 – Jiri Holecek
1974 – Jiri Holik
1975 – Jiri Holecek
1976 – Milan Nový
1977 – Ivan Hlinka
1978 – Vladimir Martinec
1979 – Vladimir Martinec
1980 – Milan Nový
1981 – Milan Nový
1982 – Jiri Králik
1983 – Jiri Králik
1984 – Igor Liba
1985 – Vladimir Ruzicka

Izvestija Golden Stick voting: This one was approved by the IIHF. Those who voted included the national federations and European sports journalists. It came about from an initiative taken by the Soviet Ice Hockey Federation and the daily newspaper Izvestija.
It was awarded during the Izvestija tournament each year. First place gave 3 points, second gave 2 and third place 1 point.
Logically the voters (European journalists) must have voted for the international games only. It seems illogical that a Swedish journalist for example would take Czech and Soviet league play into consideration when they hardly had any opportunity to see any of these domestic games.