Interesting Time for Drafting/Development

[Goldthorpe]

Better players were bought out yesterday.

Typically that's because their teams need the cap space, or don't believe there's any chance these players can be traded later in the season. Clearly Montreal doesn't see itself in this situation with Hoff.

I'd rather play Heineneman over Hoffman, wouldn't you?

I'd rather have a free asset that I can potentially flip than spending money to get rid of it just because I want to rage on the guy.

 

[montreal]

I get that they want guys with skating, but just using skating as a one-dimensional variable to construct a roster isn't good. As its currently projected, a 60-70-point ceiling guy at 5'11" doesn't belong in this top 6.

This just seems like a nepotism move since Hughes knew the guy.

That's nonsense, you really believe that a 5-11 60-70 pt player doesn't belong in the top 6? You need lots of skill in the top 6, either Newhook will show it has it or he won't, only time will tell.

At the end of the day it comes down to trusting Hughes or not. I kept saying to the Michkov fans that it doesn't seem to dawn on them that the Habs had GREAT access to him through Bobrov's dad and that just maybe they knew something more then HF fans do about the situation. Now who know if it's right or wrong but to me Hughes hasn't done anything that leads me to really fear for our future like I did with MB. Not saying he will be right as I have no clue, I barely know anything about Reinbacher and Slaf, he threw down with these guys so he has to nail these picks, if not he won't be here that long it's that simple imo.

 

[Habs13]

I would rather Heineman earns it.

Because Hoffman has??

 

[Twisted Sinister]

That's nonsense, you really believe that a 5-11 60-70 pt player doesn't belong in the top 6? You need lots of skill in the top 6, either Newhook will show it has it or he won't, only time will tell.

At the end of the day it comes down to trusting Hughes or not. I kept saying to the Michkov fans that it doesn't seem to dawn on them that the Habs had GREAT access to him through Bobrov's dad and that just maybe they knew something more then HF fans do about the situation. Now who know if it's right or wrong but to me Hughes hasn't done anything that leads me to really fear for our future like I did with MB. Not saying he will be right as I have no clue, I barely know anything about Reinbacher and Slaf, he threw down with these guys so he has to nail these picks, if not he won't be here that long it's that simple imo.

I was talking about this particular projected top 6 as it currently stands; we're too small. Newhook is not the player we needed to add organizationally.

And no, after this week, I don't trust this management team anymore.

 

[Gustave]

Broadly agree. The major area of strength is defence, and the major weakness is on offence. We've come a long way from the days where we thought we were set with Beaulieu and Tinordi. Lane had a monster season and isn't even our top dog on defence. I think it hasn't really sunk in just how good Engström season in Sweden was, he f***ing killed it this year, regular season, playoffs, juniors. And Reinbacher is the top D in this draft, IMO.

But the forwards is where it gets murky, as always in Montreal. Suzuki and Caufield are excellent players, but beyond that, we have a bunch of potential and no sure things. Maybe we get lucky, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

A lottery win this year would be just what the doctor ordered. Eiserman or Celebrini are exactly what this team needs.

Here we are again praying for a lottery win to gain a big time O prospect.

It’s tiresome, but I will pray for it too.

 

[Goldthorpe]

Because Hoffman has??

Nobody cares if Hoffmans deserve it or not, he has no future in the team anyway. But if a prospect - someone who has a future - can't be better than Hoffman, then is this prospect really ready for the big show?

 

[Habs13]

Nobody cares if Hoffmans deserve it or not, he has no future in the team anyway. But if a prospect - someone who has a future - can't be better than Hoffman, then is this prospect really ready for the big show?

...if he has no future, why keep him?

 

[Goldthorpe]

I was talking about this particular projected top 6 as it currently stands; we're too small. Newhook is not the player we needed to add organizationally.

I don't think the habs went after Newhook to address a size issue, but for his speed and overall pacing.

I think they need more great players first and foremost.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

I don't think the habs went after Newhook to address a size issue, but for his speed and overall pacing.

I think they need more great players first and foremost.

Not with that profile in my view. Not enough of an offensive ceiling. But hey, that's why we're all here. To talk about it.

 

[Goldthorpe]

...if he has no future, why keep him?

Interesting Time for Drafting/Development

haven't had the time to do much scouting but either I'm out of touch or perhaps need new glasses as the little I did see I wasn't in favor of picking any of Reinbacher, Slaf, or KK as I wanted to trade down all 3 times for an extra 1st but my guys have been injured in Boqvist, Nazar and this...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Chili]

You mean like the ones we just passed up on?

Does anyone that they didn't pick matter anymore?

 

[Sam de Mtl]

League is in a vacuum ATM it seems to me. The old guard is not as impactful, there are young impact players, but not enough to field a lot of competitive teams. It seems like there are only a handful of good goalies anymore and they are getting up there in age. A guy like Ullmark wins hardware; great for him, but he is not a guy I would expect at the top of this profession.

Can't see a path rebuilding thought those shit UFAs, therefore the only way forward is to develop your guys. I like what MSL has done so far on that front.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I was talking about this particular projected top 6 as it currently stands; we're too small. Newhook is not the player we needed to add organizationally.

And no, after this week, I don't trust this management team anymore.

For christ sake. NEWHOOK IS NOT SMAL.L. He is 190 lb. Is Boldy small because he is only 10 lb heavier.

 

[ReHabs]

I think it is fair to say this organization has placed a lot of faith in its ability to unlock talent and develop players in a way we have not seen before.

I am not yet convinced this is a “one secret trick!” that other teams haven’t considered or been able to formulate. It’s likely very hard to execute because of all the variables and aspects involved.

MSL is crucial. The fact we don’t have expectations is evaporating and quickly so — if we lose, fans and media won’t shrug it off so easily next season. Suzuki will be challenged, Caufield will be challenged, the management will be challenged. I hope they succeed to add some support to the skill guys because on paper it looks like we are both underskilled and overfull.

 

[therocket9]

I would rather Heineman earns it.

Earns it RHP earned ice time how much is going to play with at least a dozen veteran forwards ahead of him.

 

[EXPOS123]

Way too early to say what they got from this draft as once they traded for Newhook they sort of signaled that they weren't too high on the depth of this draft. After pick 69 I think it was just more throw some picks at the wall and see what sticks. So let's see how this entire draft class looks in 10 years cause they clearly didn't think too highly of it or else they would have had more then 1 top 68 pick as that's a very MB like draft so it flashed serious PTSD for me from 2014 - 2016 drafts.

This could be a disaster but EVERYONE should keep an open mind as I don't give a f*** who anyone is, there is not a single person that knows how this will play out. Reinbacher could end up being the greatest or just average who knows. After that with the odds on draft picks playing 300 NHL games or more is so low after the 1st round that I don't expect much from a draft when you go into picking once in the top 68. That said they seemed to throw some picks away (no offense to Xhekaj but he looks like an ECHLer in the 1 game I saw) and some other odd ones. I can't say I see what they did in Reinbacher but I also haven't seen much of him as I only saw him at the WJC's and maybe a little of the WC's.



It makes sense in that the clearly are trying to find skilled players with elite speed/skating/motor. Heinemen, Newhook, Smilanic, Beck, Mesar are all great skaters with high end speed/motors. Now the question will be is that the right choice, I do like it myself as speed is a good start to build around but of course you will need lots of other things as well. Time will tell if they got it right or not.

The problem is we still don’t have a #1C Someone ideally in the mold of Matthew Tkachuk, or at the very least someone with skill and size who could handle himself physically.

You build around a #1C outwards. You can get all the character guys with speed you want and we are still just going in circles

 

[Twisted Sinister]

For christ sake. NEWHOOK IS NOT SMAL.L. He is 190 lb. Is Boldy small because he is only 10 lb heavier.

Average height of an NHL forward is 6'1" 197. He's small.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Broadly agree. The major area of strength is defence, and the major weakness is on offence. We've come a long way from the days where we thought we were set with Beaulieu and Tinordi. Lane had a monster season and isn't even our top dog on defence. I think it hasn't really sunk in just how good Engström season in Sweden was, he f***ing killed it this year, regular season, playoffs, juniors. And Reinbacher is the top D in this draft, IMO.

But the forwards is where it gets murky, as always in Montreal. Suzuki and Caufield are excellent players, but beyond that, we have a bunch of potential and no sure things. Maybe we get lucky, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

A lottery win this year would be just what the doctor ordered. Eiserman or Celebrini are exactly what this team needs.

But I think it’s worth it to note that it’s pretty damn good potential.

Dach made big strides and many people think he can be pretty damn close to being Suzuki’s equal with real potential for more.

Newhook’s upside is real and pretty high. I don’t think he’s that far off the aforementioned skill wise and no one’s really pointed out major red flags. He’s not 24-25.

And I sincerely hope no matter how cold one might be on Slaf, a top 6er with a size, skill, skating combo that is very rare is still a reasonable expectation. A player that could pay dividends come playoff time.

And you still have Roy, Heineman and a few others showing plenty of promise.

I’m very convinced we haven’t seen the best of Suzuki and Caufield. The latter especially. Who hasn’t quite put together that high end playmaking that he’s flashed in ncaa and the cup run.

I think we should be taking home run swings at high end scorers all day long going forward but I wouldn’t be all together surprised if what we have could turn into a more than fine top 6 honestly. Not saying it’s a sure thing of course but I still think there’s a ton of promise here and sure as helluva great foundation to build on. Better than I’ve seen in the last 20 years or so

 

[BenchBrawl]

One of Engstrom, Hutson or Mailloux has to hit and become a Top 3 defenseman, to support Guhle and Reinbacher.

The one with the best shot is Engstrom.

If this doesn't happen, the team will go nowhere.

 

[Habs]

Way too early to say what they got from this draft as once they traded for Newhook they sort of signaled that they weren't too high on the depth of this draft. After pick 69 I think it was just more throw some picks at the wall and see what sticks. So let's see how this entire draft class looks in 10 years cause they clearly didn't think too highly of it or else they would have had more then 1 top 68 pick as that's a very MB like draft so it flashed serious PTSD for me from 2014 - 2016 drafts.

This could be a disaster but EVERYONE should keep an open mind as I don't give a f*** who anyone is, there is not a single person that knows how this will play out. Reinbacher could end up being the greatest or just average who knows. After that with the odds on draft picks playing 300 NHL games or more is so low after the 1st round that I don't expect much from a draft when you go into picking once in the top 68. That said they seemed to throw some picks away (no offense to Xhekaj but he looks like an ECHLer in the 1 game I saw) and some other odd ones. I can't say I see what they did in Reinbacher but I also haven't seen much of him as I only saw him at the WJC's and maybe a little of the WC's.



It makes sense in that the clearly are trying to find skilled players with elite speed/skating/motor. Heinemen, Newhook, Smilanic, Beck, Mesar are all great skaters with high end speed/motors. Now the question will be is that the right choice, I do like it myself as speed is a good start to build around but of course you will need lots of other things as well. Time will tell if they got it right or not.

all true, but he is not considered to be an franchise D, from what I have read.. unless 2nd pairing D ceiling is adequate. If he is a Seider, wonderful. If not, it will be sad if he's a 3-4 dman and that's all we get out of it.

 

[Goldthorpe]

One of Engstrom, Hutson or Mailloux has to hit and become a Top 3 defenseman, to support Guhle and Reinbacher.

The one with the best shot is Engstrom.

If this doesn't happen, the team will go nowhere.

To be honest I like the chances of it happening.

I don't remember us having such a deep defensive prospect pool. Reinbacher just really solidified it.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

not me. I would rather see him in Laval first. Hoffman can help the tank.

So you're firmly on team tank for next season?

 

[JoelWarlord]

IMO Newhook is getting a little overanalyzed in terms of being a strong indicator of where the team is going, a sign of accelerating the rebuild, the future core being "finished", etc. I think that trade had more to do with having an obvious open spot in the top 6 for him TODAY for a development opportunity, plus our system already being pretty full with the kind of cutesy smallish high NHLe "steals" (Roy, Farrell, Ylonen, Roy, etc. plus Mesar as another small skill guy) that we might be targeting at those spots so they decided to go for a single more premium piece and skip the 3-4 year development gauntlet from draft year to NHLer.

I do think they're bullish on Newhook, but I don't really think Newhook is a guy they're absolutely locking in as a 100% CORE piece going forward in the same way as Dach was, and I think the price paid reflects that. They like his game and think he can take a jump on the wing, and if he becomes a top 6 playmaker but having too many small forwards becomes an issue down the line you can always just trade him, it's not like you won't get anything good for a 26 y/o top 6 playmaking winger if that's what he becomes but the fit isn't right. Same if he doesn't progress, a 25-26 y/o speedy 3C is still going to fetch a decent return (or could just be a good piece to keep).

I also don't think they're trying to "end" the rebuild or think it's done yet, we're still pretty clearly in a soft tank phase and outside of a fantasy scenario where everyone progresses hugely we're likely picking in the 6-12 range pre-lotto next year. 24-25 is probably their target to move up the standings but that's still going to hinge on development next year and how much bad money we can ship out too.

 

[JuJu Mobb]

Trade D prospects for forwards.

 

[First Line]

IMO Newhook is getting a little overanalyzed in terms of being a strong indicator of where the team is going, a sign of accelerating the rebuild, the future core being "finished", etc. I think that trade had more to do with having an obvious open spot in the top 6 for him TODAY for a development opportunity, plus our system already being pretty full with the kind of cutesy smallish high NHLe "steals" (Roy, Farrell, Ylonen, Roy, etc. plus Mesar as another small skill guy) that we might be targeting at those spots so they decided to go for a single more premium piece and skip the 3-4 year development gauntlet from draft year to NHLer.

I do think they're bullish on Newhook, but I don't really think Newhook is a guy they're absolutely locking in as a 100% CORE piece going forward in the same way as Dach was, and I think the price paid reflects that. They like his game and think he can take a jump on the wing, and if he becomes a top 6 playmaker but having too many small forwards becomes an issue down the line you can always just trade him, it's not like you won't get anything good for a 26 y/o top 6 playmaking winger if that's what he becomes but the fit isn't right. Same if he doesn't progress, a 25-26 y/o speedy 3C is still going to fetch a decent return (or could just be a good piece to keep).

I also don't think they're trying to "end" the rebuild or think it's done yet, we're still pretty clearly in a soft tank phase and outside of a fantasy scenario where everyone progresses hugely we're likely picking in the 6-12 range pre-lotto next year. 24-25 is probably their target to move up the standings but that's still going to hinge on development next year and how much bad money we can ship out too.

Exactly, rebuild is not done. They still havent unloaded all the contracts they want and put all their pieces in place especially a true 1G.

You want to know how long they plan on building, take a look on how long they planned on having Jake Allen as their #1.
So prepare for 2 more years and then we can judge the team they build and see it grow.

The biggest misunderstanding, again was the Hughes said we would try to compete. What he meant was that the mindset of the team would be aimed more towards competition and less toward giving everyone a chance to develop , for that you need depth and an internal competition.

He was not saying this team would be more competitive the way fans think. He already had to repeat this in the july 1st zoom call, it’s more a mindset than actual actions to make additions to the team. I just think he didn’t explain it well enough since many seem to think the rebuild is over even after Molson himself said 2 more years.