Proposal: Interest in Jacob Trouba and Marco Dano for a CBJ LHD?

[scelaton]

Hi folks, Jets fan coming in peace. You are all aware of our tribulations with Trouba of late, and are probably still suffering collective PTSD from dealing with Overhardt. Nevertheless, I'd appreciate if you would give this consideration and provide some feedback.

The situation in Wpg is that Trouba is very unlikely to be traded unless Chevy gets a LHD of equal calibre back, and Trouba is reluctant to sign unless he has an assurance of ending up in an American market, preferably close to home. I believe he may ultimately be provided with the following choice: Sign a long-term deal and be traded on the Jets terms and timetable, or sit out the year. There is very little pressure for the team to act in haste. Columbus is in a position to possibly acquire an already-signed Trouba in exchange for a top LHD (prospect). Of course, there would be no point in a straight exchange unless there were something more in it for CBJ.

The Jets have a plethora of young, talented wingers, including your own Marco Dano, who I believe was valued highly in Columbus and relinquished reluctantly to get Saad. Let's assume the Jets would give him up, along with Trouba, to get either Murray or Werenski, plus ?.

I acknowledge that Murray is an excellent D, and Werenski an A prospect, but Trouba is excellent as well. He is our second best D behind Buff and would probably have grown into our #1 in the next few years. It's a shame he doesn't want to stay, but there is always opportunity in instability.

Thoughts?

Click to read more...

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

Too late to acquire Nutivaara in such a trade.

 

[Viqsi]

This has been discussed repeatedly on the trade mains. It doesn't make much sense for us to trade for Trouba, since we already have two high-quality RHDs in Jones and Savard. We'd end up adopting the same sort of problem Winnipeg has now - not enough quality LHD, too many quality RHD.

We could go for a flip-Trouba-or-Savard-for-an-upgrade-elsewhere plan, hypothetically. But in such a scenario, the only roster LHD we'd give up is Jack Johnson. Other prospects on top of that are doable, but otherwise neither Murray nor Werenski can be realistically moved. Murray because he's our best stablizing guy and has excellent chemistry with Jones (plus the LHD-RHD issue), and Werenski even moreso because his expansion draft exemption is part and parcel of our plans to have a nigh-unstoppable top-4 even after Vegas is added.

In short: not really realistic, sorry.

 

[major major]

Very nice offer, but we're set on RHD, so it's not really a fit (that and fans here are in love with Werenski).

 

[Old Guy]

You did a fairly good job answering your own question. Major did the rest. The CBJ are fairly set on D-men currently. Injuries could alter that, but today, imo they are set.

If there were a deal worth considering, (no), the Overhardt issue could easily make the CBJ just say "it isn't worth it".

Trouba should make sure he has Netflix account for binge watching and a bag of Snickers. He isn't going anywhere for a while. The gun he is holding to Chevy's head isn't loaded.

 

[Crede777]

I don't think it's worth it to subtract from the left side in order to assist to a right side which is already set. Jones and Savard are more than good enough. There is no area of need there.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

This has been discussed repeatedly on the trade mains. It doesn't make much sense for us to trade for Trouba, since we already have two high-quality RHDs in Jones and Savard. We'd end up adopting the same sort of problem Winnipeg has now - not enough quality LHD, too many quality RHD.

We could go for a flip-Trouba-or-Savard-for-an-upgrade-elsewhere plan, hypothetically. But in such a scenario, the only roster LHD we'd give up is Jack Johnson. Other prospects on top of that are doable, but otherwise neither Murray nor Werenski can be realistically moved. Murray because he's our best stablizing guy and has excellent chemistry with Jones (plus the LHD-RHD issue), and Werenski even moreso because his expansion draft exemption is part and parcel of our plans to have a nigh-unstoppable top-4 even after Vegas is added.

In short: not really realistic, sorry.

I understand the issue with L/R balance. It makes no sense for CBJ to put themselves into the same position Winnipeg has had. We could solve that by doing a L/R pair for a L/R pair. If Trouba continues to sit then Josh Morrissey looks ready to step into his top 4 spot. He has been very good in TC so far. There would be a roster player and a prospect/rookie going each way, Trouba + Morrissey for Savard + Werenski. Quite honestly that value looks very close to me. You are giving up the better prospect but are getting the better roster player. Of course a neutral balance doesn't give you any incentive to do anything at all. I think the difference between Trouba and Savard is greater than the difference between Morrissey and Werenski so you are already ahead by a small amount. Of course that is just my opinion. We would expect to add. I think Dano would be about right.

You gain a needed forward and Savard leaving frees up some cap for you to sign Trouba.

I normally resist suggestions to include Morrissey in trades. He is just too valuable to us. But this could be an elegant solution to our immediate problem. We would still have too much of our D strength on the right side but we would be much better placed to solve that than we are now.

The whole thing hinges on your ability to sign Trouba but you are free to work that out before committing to any deal.

 

[Crede777]

I think the CBJ just want to see what they have in Murray, Jones, Savard, and Werenski first.

 

[major major]

Trouba + Morrissey for Savard + Werenski. Quite honestly that value looks very close to me. You are giving up the better prospect but are getting the better roster player. .

Leaving aside the Overhardt/signing issues, I'm still not sure I'd prefer current Trouba over Savard.

Trouba obviously has the higher upside compared to Savard, but as they play today I don't see Trouba being markedly better, if at all. Two guys around #3D. We would, of course, make that swap just for the upside, but the gains there are somewhat lessened by the fact that we already have enough high upside U24 D, and so it doesn't come close to counterbalancing the loss of Werenski.

The bigger factor, really, is that many of us believe Werenski is marked for future #1D. Whatever gap may exist between Savard and Trouba doesn't really matter to us if we think Werenski can be better than both of them.

Edit: I should mention Morrissey and Dano as well - those two are very nice pieces but the same thing applies to them vis a vis Werenski. The Jackets have plenty of good young players and good prospects at LHD and the wing. What the team needs is elite players to take the next step.

 

[Nanabijou]

I understand the issue with L/R balance. It makes no sense for CBJ to put themselves into the same position Winnipeg has had. We could solve that by doing a L/R pair for a L/R pair. If Trouba continues to sit then Josh Morrissey looks ready to step into his top 4 spot. He has been very good in TC so far. There would be a roster player and a prospect/rookie going each way, Trouba + Morrissey for Savard + Werenski. Quite honestly that value looks very close to me. You are giving up the better prospect but are getting the better roster player. Of course a neutral balance doesn't give you any incentive to do anything at all. I think the difference between Trouba and Savard is greater than the difference between Morrissey and Werenski so you are already ahead by a small amount. Of course that is just my opinion. We would expect to add. I think Dano would be about right.

You gain a needed forward and Savard leaving frees up some cap for you to sign Trouba.

I normally resist suggestions to include Morrissey in trades. He is just too valuable to us. But this could be an elegant solution to our immediate problem. We would still have too much of our D strength on the right side but we would be much better placed to solve that than we are now.

The whole thing hinges on your ability to sign Trouba but you are free to work that out before committing to any deal.

What you are proposing is reasonable from a value standpoint. But, as others mentioned, the CBJ aren't really in a position of RHD need so I'm not sure why they would want the headache of dealing with Overhardt again for the possibility that they might be slightly better off with this deal.

I think they (and the fanbase) really want to see what they have in Werenski as there is a possibility (how big, depends on the tint in your glasses) that he ends up the best of the bunch.

Unless there is a big over-pay on Winnipeg's part, I don't see a good fit. And I don't see why Winnipeg would want to over-pay.

 

[Mister Twister]

Nope. Would love to have Dano back, but Trouba does not fit our organizational needs.

 

[scelaton]

Appreciate the civil discourse thus far...keep it up!

(That's why I didn't take it to the main boards)
s

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Leaving aside the Overhardt/signing issues, I'm still not sure I'd prefer current Trouba over Savard.

Trouba obviously has the higher upside compared to Savard, but as they play today I don't see Trouba being markedly better, if at all. Two guys around #3D. We would, of course, make that swap just for the upside, but the gains there are somewhat lessened by the fact that we already have enough high upside U24 D, and so it doesn't come close to counterbalancing the loss of Werenski.

The bigger factor, really, is that many of us believe Werenski is marked for future #1D. Whatever gap may exist between Savard and Trouba doesn't really matter to us if we think Werenski can be better than both of them.

Edit: I should mention Morrissey and Dano as well - those two are very nice pieces but the same thing applies to them vis a vis Werenski. The Jackets have plenty of good young players and good prospects at LHD and the wing. What the team needs is elite players to take the next step.

Trouba is already our #2D. He is earmarked for the left side with Buff on our top pair. His usage hasn't matched that and has depressed his stats but when the stats are examined more closely it becomes plain. Looking at Trouba w/o Stuart for a start but also looking at other combinations of players with and without Trouba. Not to knock Savard (I am asking for him in trade after all) but Trouba is on an entirely different level. He is nearly on the level we all hope Werenski reaches and he hasn't peaked. I see Trouba and Werenski as near the same ceiling but Trouba is 3 years more developed (if we get down to the finer points I think Werenski goes slightly higher eventually, but only slightly). Morrissey is a little lower but he has a lot of development in him too to go with a lot of skill. He won't quite match Savard this year but will almost certainly pass him soon. Definitely a top 4 D.

We tend to assume that CBJ would want Dano back as they appeared to part with him reluctantly. If he is not quite what you need we could give you a choice among several others of similar value.

I see that you do have some interesting prospects available. We have no trouble offering you value in swapping D but it might be difficult to give you the extra incentive needed to make it attractive at your end.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

What you are proposing is reasonable from a value standpoint. But, as others mentioned, the CBJ aren't really in a position of RHD need so I'm not sure why they would want the headache of dealing with Overhardt again for the possibility that they might be slightly better off with this deal.

I think they (and the fanbase) really want to see what they have in Werenski as there is a possibility (how big, depends on the tint in your glasses) that he ends up the best of the bunch.

Unless there is a big over-pay on Winnipeg's part, I don't see a good fit. And I don't see why Winnipeg would want to over-pay.

The bolded is understandable. Will there come a day when teams shy away from drafting his clients? In these circumstances though that shouldn't be a big issue. Negotiate a 6 year contract before accepting the trade. If Overhardt makes that too difficult you just walk away. This deal would give him everything he supposedly wants. If he is still a **** then you don't need to continue.

I have suggested quite an overpay already. I think that is about the limit for us. If that isn't enough then there is no deal to be made here. Poor Jacob will just have to sit until something as good comes along. I wonder what career plan B is? I don't think Chevy is going to be pushed into something stupid.

 

[blahblah]

Thoughts?

Yeah, who cares what we think. It only matters what the two front offices think. Did you have a rumor of some kind that would make it worth our time to entertain this?

 

[mikeyp24]

I have suggested quite an overpay already. I think that is about the limit for us. If that isn't enough then there is no deal to be made here. Poor Jacob will just have to sit until something as good comes along. I wonder what career plan B is? I don't think Chevy is going to be pushed into something stupid.

I honestly don't think that you offered an overpay. Werenski is the most valuable chip in the deal and Savard is extremely underrated around these boards as far as talent goes and he's on a great contract for a #3. I honestly love Trouba and feel he is better then the rest of his draft classes 1st round D except Murray. I 100% better then Rielly ect and think he should be paid and valued as much. But right now Werenski IMO is like the #3 prospect in the world and the best D prospect by a fair margin. I would value him personally at like the value of a Laine because position, age, potential, and proven progression since the draft. So trading Trouba + Morrissey for Werenski would be value to what I would say is an overpay that is reasonable overpay. But Savard in that deal is more Overpay from us then to you. Again this is more my opinion probably then the rest of the board but I had Werenski ahead of Hannifan that draft year and am extremely high on him. In truly believe he has the potential to be the greatest player this team has ever had.

Honestly I don't see there being a trade worked out unless we figured out a way to get conner and trouba for the D you want + because we are set at top 4 D and honestly with the young guys we have in the system in Carlsson, Nutivaara, Gavrikov, and Kukan. We likely will lose JMFJ to Vegas but say they take Korpisalo or Atkinson then our top 5 is Murray, Jones, Savard, JMFJ, and Werenski. At that point any of those guys mentioned ON PAPER gives us a clear top 10 D. I want to be clear it's on paper until they show it on the ice haha. But point being Trouba isn't even remotely needed on this team. So to entice us to trade for him and give up Werenski we would need Conner to fill our only hole. Morrissey while a nice piece I don't feel isn't that high level of a prospect to really improve our deep D pool and give up the risk of losing a superstar in Werenski.

Our young F ready or very very close to ready are PLD, Bjorkstrand, Milano, and Anderson (I might be forgetting 1 or 2 but those are the bigger names.) 3 of those are wings and we have Saad and Jenner who are young and long term guys here. That's a young top 9 and that's not counting our vets that are not going to get replaced by a prospect. So we don't need any more prospect wings. At C though it's PLD, Karlson, Wennberg, and Dubi. There's obviously guys who can slide over and play but those are the guys set to play there as their main position. So the only possible way I can see anyone prying Werenski away from us without an = young C comes our way.

So maybe Conner and Trouba for Werenski and Foligno/Atkinson/(insert vet forward)

 

[Jackets16]

Hi folks, Jets fan coming in peace. You are all aware of our tribulations with Trouba of late, and are probably still suffering collective PTSD from dealing with Overhardt. Nevertheless, I'd appreciate if you would give this consideration and provide some feedback.

The situation in Wpg is that Trouba is very unlikely to be traded unless Chevy gets a LHD of equal calibre back, and Trouba is reluctant to sign unless he has an assurance of ending up in an American market, preferably close to home. I believe he may ultimately be provided with the following choice: Sign a long-term deal and be traded on the Jets terms and timetable, or sit out the year. There is very little pressure for the team to act in haste. Columbus is in a position to possibly acquire an already-signed Trouba in exchange for a top LHD (prospect). Of course, there would be no point in a straight exchange unless there were something more in it for CBJ.

The Jets have a plethora of young, talented wingers, including your own Marco Dano, who I believe was valued highly in Columbus and relinquished reluctantly to get Saad. Let's assume the Jets would give him up, along with Trouba, to get either Murray or Werenski, plus ?.

I acknowledge that Murray is an excellent D, and Werenski an A prospect, but Trouba is excellent as well. He is our second best D behind Buff and would probably have grown into our #1 in the next few years. It's a shame he doesn't want to stay, but there is always opportunity in instability.

Thoughts?

Huge no. No need for either player. We have zero need for a RHD or a LW/RW. We have even less need/interest in trading Murray or Werenski. We have even less interest in trading for Trouba and the problems (agent) he brings with him.

 

[Jackets16]

I understand the issue with L/R balance. It makes no sense for CBJ to put themselves into the same position Winnipeg has had. We could solve that by doing a L/R pair for a L/R pair. If Trouba continues to sit then Josh Morrissey looks ready to step into his top 4 spot. He has been very good in TC so far. There would be a roster player and a prospect/rookie going each way, Trouba + Morrissey for Savard + Werenski. Quite honestly that value looks very close to me. You are giving up the better prospect but are getting the better roster player. Of course a neutral balance doesn't give you any incentive to do anything at all. I think the difference between Trouba and Savard is greater than the difference between Morrissey and Werenski so you are already ahead by a small amount. Of course that is just my opinion. We would expect to add. I think Dano would be about right.

You gain a needed forward and Savard leaving frees up some cap for you to sign Trouba.

I normally resist suggestions to include Morrissey in trades. He is just too valuable to us. But this could be an elegant solution to our immediate problem. We would still have too much of our D strength on the right side but we would be much better placed to solve that than we are now.

The whole thing hinges on your ability to sign Trouba but you are free to work that out before committing to any deal.

I'd much rather have Savard and Werenski. We also have no need for Dano or any other forward you would trade us. You are trying way to hard at something we don't want or need.

 

[mikeyp24]

I take back what I said I just found out that Conner is a LW... for the past 2 years I have been wrong haha.

 

[Old Guy]

The Jackets have plenty of good young players and good prospects at LHD and the wing. What the team needs is elite players to take the next step.

But this could be an elegant solution to our immediate problem. We would still have too much of our D strength on the right side but we would be much better placed to solve that than we are now.

Those two thoughts sum up my view. It feels like this idea solves Winnipeg's problem and creates a problem for the CBJ. Why would Columbus go for this? I'm not seeing it, but I'm not the GM.

To scelaton, who posted the topic, I would like to ask; As you look at the CBJ, how does this make them better? What existing problem does it solve?

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I'd love to have him but not with our current cap situation and what he likely will want in a contract. Just doesn't fit

 

[scelaton]

I honestly love Trouba and feel he is better then the rest of his draft classes 1st round D except Murray. 100% better then Rielly ect ...But right now Werenski IMO is like the #3 prospect in the world and the best D prospect by a fair margin.I would value him personally at like the value of a Laine ......In truly believe he has the potential to be the greatest player this team has ever had.

....So to entice us to trade for him and give up Werenski we would need Conner to fill our only hole.

Our young F ready or very very close to ready are PLD, Bjorkstrand, Milano, and Anderson....

So maybe Conner and Trouba for Werenski and Foligno/Atkinson/(insert vet forward)

Thanks for the reply. I do think you are overvaluing Werenski somewhat by calling him the 3rd best prospect in the world...but we all tend to overvalue our own. I personally have no idea who projects higher from among Murray, Werenski, Rielly, Jones and Trouba--it' still too early to tell and their respective ceilings, IMHO, are similar.
Trouba and Connor for Werenski + would be a huge win for CBJ. Connor has the same upside as Werenski, at his position, as I am sure you are aware. All 3 of the aforementioned played NCAA at Michigan, where Werenski scored the most points by a rookie D since...wait for it...Jacob Trouba

Those two thoughts sum up my view. It feels like this idea solves Winnipeg's problem and creates a problem for the CBJ. Why would Columbus go for this? I'm not seeing it, but I'm not the GM.

To scelaton, who posted the topic, I would like to ask; As you look at the CBJ, how does this make them better? What existing problem does it solve?

I don't presume to be an expert on CBJ, but I will give it a try.
1)Columbus has not been a very strong team in shot suppression, despite its strong D on paper. Trouba's advanced stats are even better than his eye test--he is a shot suppression machine and would tilt the ice in your favour, perhaps more than even a Seth Jones.
2)If Werenski and Ryan Murray are both #1LHD ---and Werenski is the best D prospect IN the UNIVERSE--you will quickly run into the same problem Wpg has at RHD. If he actually plateaus lower, better to trade him now, while his value is high.
3) The real answer to your question is that this is only good for CBJ if you assume Trouba is in the same tier as Werenski and Murray, and CBJ gets an additional valuable asset back.
Looking at your F lineup, I see great depth at C, but less so in the top-9 wingers. Atkinson, Saad and Foligno are locks, and Bjorkstrand and Milano good prospects, but then it gets murky.
If you are looking to improve this year, then the Jets have some assets that could step right in: Dano, Armia and Stafford come to mind, and there are others I won't mention here.
Connor is unlikely to made available, but Dano, prospects, draft picks and cap relief could be.

 

[mikeyp24]

I honestly wouldn't ask for the conner trade now because he's a LW I forgot how I always confused him and Colin Whites positions their draft year thinking white was a LW and conner a C. But yes I am a huge fan of Trouba and watches him play college and know about the Werenski comparisons haha =p Honestly If we didn't just get Jones I would think some.deal could be made but we are just so lucky right now with D that if we lose one to expansion and 2 or 3 completely bust out of our pool we are STILL pretty set. Honestly the Jets are my 2nd favorite team to follow right now because of how many of.my favorite prospects and young guys.they have even though you guys stole Jack R. From us.

I honestly have prospects as Mathews, Laine, Werenski for the top 3. Nylander is close but I'd say 4th and I'm not a Marner fan at all. But see I'm not a pure homer I even gave your team the better prospect haha

 

[scelaton]

I honestly wouldn't ask for the conner trade now because he's a LW I forgot how I always confused him and Colin Whites positions their draft year thinking white was a LW and conner a C. But yes I am a huge fan of Trouba and watches him play college and know about the Werenski comparisons haha =p Honestly If we didn't just get Jones I would think some.deal could be made but we are just so lucky right now with D that if we lose one to expansion and 2 or 3 completely bust out of our pool we are STILL pretty set. Honestly the Jets are my 2nd favorite team to follow right now because of how many of.my favorite prospects and young guys.they have even though you guys stole Jack R. From us.


I honestly have prospects as Mathews, Laine, Werenski for the top 3. Nylander is close but I'd say 4th and I'm not a Marner fan at all. But see I'm not a pure homer I even gave your team the better prospect haha

Damn, I forgot all about Roslovic, who is from Columbus! Dano and Roslovic are what made me think Columbus would be such an enticing trade partner in the first place!
Anyway, this has been a great foray for me...I am always reluctant to venture into other teams' boards, lest I be perceived as a rabble rouser.
I am glad to hear we have a Jets fan in you, as I am certainly rooting for Columbus. We Midwest small market teams need to stick together and we are now also joined by a mutual disdain for Overhardt

Sincerely hope you guys finally reach your potential in the next year or two.
s

 

[Viqsi]

I don't presume to be an expert on CBJ, but I will give it a try.
1)Columbus has not been a very strong team in shot suppression, despite its strong D on paper. Trouba's advanced stats are even better than his eye test--he is a shot suppression machine and would tilt the ice in your favour, perhaps more than even a Seth Jones.

This is why I would consider him a certain upgrade on Savard, but by itself it's not enough IMO.

2)If Werenski and Ryan Murray are both #1LHD ---and Werenski is the best D prospect IN the UNIVERSE--you will quickly run into the same problem Wpg has at RHD. If he actually plateaus lower, better to trade him now, while his value is high.

Not really. Winnipeg's got that issue because y'all have three such guys at RHD. We expect in the end to end up with two - we strongly suspect JJ is going to be playing for Vegas in a year or so. Trading for Trouba, however, immediately creates that situation at RHD for us because now we have him and Jones and Savard.

Trading Werenski is particularly dubious for us because that's how we hope to have a Nashville-level top-4 after the expansion draft.

3) The real answer to your question is that this is only good for CBJ if you assume Trouba is in the same tier as Werenski and Murray, and CBJ gets an additional valuable asset back.

I do believe he is; I just don't see a way to make it work for both teams.

Looking at your F lineup, I see great depth at C, but less so in the top-9 wingers. Atkinson, Saad and Foligno are locks, and Bjorkstrand and Milano good prospects, but then it gets murky.

Don't overlook Hartnell and Anderson. And if Dubois does work out at center Jenner will likely be spending more and more time on the wing.