News Article: Inside Ken Holland's challenge of rebuilding the Red Wings on the fly

[Pavels Dog]

Exactly. While I certainly don't expect guys taken outside the top 5 to be perennial Calder candidates, if a forward isn't making noise by his 3rd year, the odds of him ever being an impact player at the NHL level are slim. Defensemen get a little longer leash, but acting like 5 years is nothing for player evaluations is being too patient in today's NHL.

Not to mention the contract implications of continuing to over ripen players, having fewer of their cheap years with the big club.

It's just reality for most players that aren't top 10-15 picks or at least 1st rounders, even some that turn out really, really good.

D+1-2 in juniors.
D+2-4 in AHL with possible call-ups
D+3-5 establishing themselves in the NHL

And for some it takes a little while beyond that to actually hit their prime, especially d-men and goalies who can often be at their best in their late 20s or even 30s.

 

[jkutswings]

It's just reality for most players that aren't top 10-15 picks or at least 1st rounders, even some that turn out really, really good.

D+1-2 in juniors.
D+2-4 in AHL with possible call-ups
D+3-5 establishing themselves in the NHL

And for some it takes a little while beyond that to actually hit their prime, especially d-men and goalies who can often be at their best in their late 20s or even 30s.

On average, perhaps. But Detroit needs core players, and if the guys they're drafting, even in the first round, continue to have average development, then the team will never get ahead of the curve, and start building something good again.

Either they start getting luckier with the picks they have, or start getting higher picks, or both. But they definitely need players to start playing good NHL hockey at a younger age if things are going to turn around.

 

[HockeyinHD]

If you don't know what you have after five years, you know what you have. Absolutely nothing.

I look forward to WW never using the term 'upside' for any player past the age of 24 again.

 

[HockeyinHD]

This. While rebuilding on the fly every year is the same mantra to "improve our defense." I remember even before Lidstrom retired. We did get Green but nothing more.

White, Commodore, Dekeyser, Green, Quincey, Zidlicky. Brought up Smith, Kindl, XO, etc etc.

A lot of players were tried, it's just that replacing one of the best dmen of all time is a big ask.

Man we are going to be rebuilding on the fly forever.

In a capped league everyone is rebuilding on the fly to some extent or another. Even the teams that are tanking are trying to tank while rebuilding on the fly.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

White, Commodore, Dekeyser, Green, Quincey, Zidlicky. Brought up Smith, Kindl, XO, etc etc.

A lot of players were tried, it's just that replacing one of the best dmen of all time is a big ask.



In a capped league everyone is rebuilding on the fly to some extent or another. Even the teams that are tanking are trying to tank while rebuilding on the fly.

"Replacing Listrom" is a tired excuse. Obviously there's no doing that. It's not about replacing Lidstrom, it's about having a legit #1 d-man. And none of the players you listed were ever a realistic possibility for that.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

White, Commodore, Dekeyser, Green, Quincey, Zidlicky. Brought up Smith, Kindl, XO, etc etc.

A lot of players were tried, it's just that replacing one of the best dmen of all time is a big ask.

White, Commodore, Quincey, Zidlicky, Smith, and Kindl aren't really improvements. That is more what happens during a number of years as players get cycled in and out.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

White, Commodore, Quincey, Zidlicky, Smith, and Kindl aren't really improvements. That is more what happens during a number of years as players get cycled in and out.

Exactly.

Green was an improvement but that's about it.

 

[Frk It]

White, Commodore, Dekeyser, Green, Quincey, Zidlicky. Brought up Smith, Kindl, XO, etc etc.

Were these supposed to be good examples of how our defense was addressed?

Rather, the fact that this is the best you can come up, tells us why we are where we are.

 

[Heaton]

White, Commodore, Quincey, Zidlicky, Smith, and Kindl aren't really improvements. That is more what happens during a number of years as players get cycled in and out.

All of those players listed aren't even attempts at fixing anything, they were just bodies.

 

[chances14]

if you believe what holland says at face value, we shouldn't be seeing any young guys traded for veterans

“I’m not looking to trade any of our 21, 22 or 23 year olds for players who are five, six or seven years older,” Holland told The Athletic. “If I’m going to trade, and I might not, the trade has to be there. It has to make sense. It has to make sense for the other team. It has to be a similar age.”

https://theathletic.com/69497/2017/06/22/athanasiou-could-be-the-price-to-upgrade-red-wings-defense/

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Why were we trying to replace lidstrom?

Why not just try and draft and develop a solid young mean to play in our top three

We will never replace lidstrom

 

[Heaton]

Why were we trying to replace lidstrom?

Why not just try and draft and develop a solid young mean to play in our top three

We will never replace lidstrom

Agree, you don't replace Lidstrom just like Datsyuk didn't replace Fedorov and Z didn't replace Yzerman.

 

[Go Wings]

if you believe what holland says at face value, we shouldn't be seeing any young guys traded for veterans



https://theathletic.com/69497/2017/06/22/athanasiou-could-be-the-price-to-upgrade-red-wings-defense/

When is the last time Holland even added a decent roster player outside of the trade deadline? I expect Holland to do nothing as per usual.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

When is the last time Holland even added a decent roster player outside of the trade deadline? I expect Holland to do nothing as per usual.

Via trade?

It's been since Brad Stuart

In free agency it's Mike Green

The test were either too old, too expensive or too dumb

 

[WingedWheel1987]

White, Commodore, Quincey, Zidlicky, Smith, and Kindl aren't really improvements. That is more what happens during a number of years as players get cycled in and out.

Apparently doing the bare minimum is all a GM needs to do in order to please HD. Ohh and make the owners lots of money.

He isn't "spoiled"

 

[WingedWheel1987]

if you believe what holland says at face value, we shouldn't be seeing any young guys traded for veterans



https://theathletic.com/69497/2017/06/22/athanasiou-could-be-the-price-to-upgrade-red-wings-defense/

Of course he isn't going to make any trades.

The Wings only have three players with any worthwhile trade value.

Larkin, Mantha and AA. And even their value isn't sky high.

 

[jkutswings]

White, Commodore, Quincey, Zidlicky, Smith, and Kindl aren't really improvements. That is more what happens during a number of years as players get cycled in and out.

That's an understatement. Looking at their stats in Detroit, those players collectively had an average Red Wings CAREER of 9 goals, 26 assists, and 35 points in 140 games played. Or, on a per season average, it was 3 goals and 9 assists for 12 points.

Now I know that defensemen are measured by more than just points scored, but if your average yearly contribution amongst 6 players over 5 years is 3-9-12...ouch.

 

[ShanahanMan]

if you believe what holland says at face value, we shouldn't be seeing any young guys traded for veterans



https://theathletic.com/69497/2017/06/22/athanasiou-could-be-the-price-to-upgrade-red-wings-defense/

Where was this philosophy when we traded Jarnkrok for 36 year old Legwand?

 

[Flowah]

Where was this philosophy when we traded Jarnkrok for 36 year old Legwand?

Getting us 5 playoff games!!!

 

[TheOctopusKid]

So, is Holland planning on doing anything today?

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

When is the last time Holland even added a decent roster player outside of the trade deadline? I expect Holland to do nothing as per usual.

This needs to be underscored from time to time, but the last time Holland traded a significant, every day roster player was the summer of 2001 in the form of Slava Koslov. He's that conservative.

 

[Goalie guy]

So, is Holland planning on doing anything today?

He is trading his pudding for granola in the old folks lunch room.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

So, is Holland planning on doing anything today?

Probably not, Once again like always Holland will leave us miserable with a crap team.

 

[Heaton]

I don't think we should hope for Holland to do anything. The only thing I'd be on board with is trading up in the draft. Other than that, do nothing and make the pick.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

So, is Holland planning on doing anything today?

I can't see anything being more of an indictment on the job Holland has done these last six years then if no GM is interested in any of our roster players, after we know for a fact Holland has spoken with them all (his words).