Post-Game Talk: Insane 5-4 SO win for the Oilers. Fasth > Scrivens

[guymez]

What are you talking about? Roy cleared waivers. No team wanted him. MacTavish had the brainchild of trading Arcobello for him because, you know, MacTavish couldn't give Nelson too many centers. He might succeed and go .500.

Yes...I got that wrong. Cant explain how I missed the Arco trade....posting too late at night I guess.

That said I like Lander better than Arco so I dont think his departure has had much of an impact. Lander has more of an impact with his corners and net presence.
Agreed about (legit NHL) centres and this team could also use another 3 top 4 dmen as well so trading Petry will create another big hole.

 

[joestevens29]

Last year we all commented on his one handed stick checks on people trying to gain the zone, he was sensational at it.

Not sure how he has begun to make himself too small?

How does a guy regress like this?

Essentially you put two hands on the stick and you lose a lot of reach. I mean its so simple, but yet at the same time if you don't realize you're doing it then you'll never know you are doing things wrong.

Struds made it sound so simple, yet it's something that takes time to get over.

As for the why he regressed I'll take a shot with this; When you have two hands on your stick you are stronger overall. One hand you can become off balance much easier. Is it possible a young Marincin that hasn't yet hit that man weight was trying to compensate?

 

[oilerbear]

Exactly. Nelson obviously has them playing better, but I'm a little leery of any kind of run at this point in the season, after going through this with Gagner, Nilsson and Cogliano before.

you want to identify forwards who other players have there best results with.
75% + of players got their best results with Nilsson and Cogliano.
Went sent away Nilsson and Traded Cogliano.
We kept the player only 33% of players had there best results with. Gagner!

In 15 gm with Nelson as coach we have:
Beat:
LAK in SO - fighting for playoff lives
NYI - #1 in Metro Div
CHI - #4 in west
@FLD in SO
@WSH in SO - last wild card
Buf
SJS in SO - fighting for playoff lives

lost to:
@CGY in OT - fighting for Playoff lives
@COL in OT
DET #2 in East
FLD
@STL #3 west
@ TMP #1 in east 3rd period turn over
MIN 2-1 world class goal by Coyle
@ CGY yeilded 3rd period lead.

 

[Approved Variety]

Essentially you put two hands on the stick and you lose a lot of reach. I mean its so simple, but yet at the same time if you don't realize you're doing it then you'll never know you are doing things wrong.

Struds made it sound so simple, yet it's something that takes time to get over.

As for the why he regressed I'll take a shot with this; When you have two hands on your stick you are stronger overall. One hand you can become off balance much easier. Is it possible a young Marincin that hasn't yet hit that man weight was trying to compensate?

Yes, and he just put on 20lbs, which would throw his balance out of whack. He just needs some time.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Yes...I got that wrong. Cant explain how I missed the Arco trade....posting too late at night I guess.

That said I like Lander better than Arco so I dont think his departure has had much of an impact. Lander has more of an impact with his corners and net presence.
Agreed about (legit NHL) centres and this team could also use another 3 top 4 dmen as well so trading Petry will create another big hole.

That's OK. I forgot about the Forsberg trade the other day in the main forum. I was taken to task. We all make mistakes. Well, most of us anyway. According to Oiler management they don't......ever.

 

[guymez]

That's OK. I forgot about the Forsberg trade the other day in the main forum. I was taken to task. We all make mistakes. Well, most of us anyway. According to Oiler management they don't......ever.

Yeah but Forsberg wasn't ever an Oiler.

Mistakes from Oilers Mangement just means promotion anyways.

How else to explain Lowes current position.

By that metric then MacT should be Lowe's boss before too long.

 

[guymez]

No, it certainly isn't. And unfortunately, I don't think MacT is remotely capable of actually getting it done. Who knows... maybe he's had some hard earned lessons about banking on non-NHLers in key roles, but two years in a row now he's tried to fill key spots with players who were not previously NHLers. First year he did it on defense with guys like Belov and Grebeshkov. This year he tried it at center with Draisaitl and Arcobello...

He needs to do more than try and then talk about how hard it is to make trades and everyone just wants to fleece us. He needs to find ways to make smart acquisitions via trade and free agency. The moves are out there for a smart GM to make. Other teams do it. All the time. It's not a matter of it being too hard. We just need a GM capable of getting it done.

Completely agree.

Living in Calgary its particularly tough to deal with the Oilers wandering around lost in a 6 year rebuild while the Flames figure it out in less than 2 years.

I completely respect what the Flames have accomplished but it would sure be nice if the Oilers could be less of a joke and be able to compete with them.

I guess we might see that possibility in year 8 of the rebuild.

Here's hoping.

 

[DipsyMcDoodles]

Just want to mention that I thought Lander had a strong game last night. Don't think he'll be back in OKC

 

[Mr Positive]

Completely agree.

Living in Calgary its particularly tough to deal with the Oilers wandering around lost in a 6 year rebuild while the Flames figure it out in less than 2 years.

I completely respect what the Flames have accomplished but it would sure be nice if the Oilers could be less of a joke and be able to compete with them.

I guess we might see that possibility in year 8 of the rebuild.

Here's hoping.

The Flames haven't won a single thing yet. I'm not saying it won't happen for them, but until they actually accomplish something I wouldn't be patting them on the back. Maybe they are for real. Maybe they are the Leafs. If you remember what the Leafs were a couple season's back, there was a ton of optimism around the squad and they were winning a lot more than the Flames. Both were built with the same basic principles and pieces.

 

[soothsayer]

Completely agree.

Living in Calgary its particularly tough to deal with the Oilers wandering around lost in a 6 year rebuild while the Flames figure it out in less than 2 years.

I completely respect what the Flames have accomplished but it would sure be nice if the Oilers could be less of a joke and be able to compete with them.

I guess we might see that possibility in year 8 of the rebuild.

Here's hoping.

I can see how you would be conditioned to thinking that they've "figured it out" already, given that you live in Calgary and are surrounded by their rhetoric. The season isn't over, and they are barely scraping into the playoffs, not to mention that their constant "comeback heroics" bode ill for their playoff success (you cannot relying on third-period comebacks in the playoffs--no bloody chance they maintain those percentages in the post-season, so let's not kid ourselves about that). What's more, if recent history has told us anything about success in the NHL, it's that teams can fluctuate drastically from one season to the next. So what if the Flames manage to secure a low seeded spot in the playoffs this year, only to finish out of contention the next? Look at Colorado, Arizona, Columbus, New York Islanders as recent examples of teams making big jumps and tumbles in the standings. As far as I can tell, Calgary hasn't figured anything out until they: 1) make the playoffs; and, 2.) maintain consistent success.

 

[OilerTyler]

It looks like the NHL credited Hendricks' shootout attempt to Aulie.

 

[Throttlehead]

Just want to mention that I thought Lander had a strong game last night. Don't think he'll be back in OKC

This time around he is really looking like a different player, makes very few mistakes and has great puck support, also good on the dot.

 

[Aerchon]

Lander is looking better but is still a ways from being able to help this team make a playoff spot as a bottom 6 center. Still young tho, I hope he takes a much bigger step next year.

Klefbom love is over blown. He is doing ok but by no means has he shown anything this year that would make me think he will be dominate in this league. I hope he also takes a big step next year or 2 but won't hold my breath. He may end up being the next guy who always gets to play over his head and is eventually run out of town.

After Nurses WJC I have genuine hope he will eventually become a top pairing type. That was impressive. Years away I would guess but most certainly has the drive and a lot of the skill sets.

Marincin was better last year than Klefbom has been this year. Its not even close. From what I hear he is dominating the AHL defensively but it worries me that he has not found his offense in the AHL yet. He was billed as an offensive defenseman from his Junior career and as a prospect so I still have hope that he develops into something more as well.

I just can't wait until I can finally say the Oilers have a real true top pairing type duo. I really don't care who it ends up being as long as it doesn't take more then 2-3 years for it to happen.

 

[RuneMcEres]

Lander is looking better but is still a ways from being able to help this team make a playoff spot as a bottom 6 center. Still young tho, I hope he takes a much bigger step next year.

Klefbom love is over blown. He is doing ok but by no means has he shown anything this year that would make me think he will be dominate in this league. I hope he also takes a big step next year or 2 but won't hold my breath. He may end up being the next guy who always gets to play over his head and is eventually run out of town.

After Nurses WJC I have genuine hope he will eventually become a top pairing type. That was impressive. Years away I would guess but most certainly has the drive and a lot of the skill sets.

Marincin was better last year than Klefbom has been this year. Its not even close. From what I hear he is dominating the AHL defensively but it worries me that he has not found his offense in the AHL yet. He was billed as an offensive defenseman from his Junior career and as a prospect so I still have hope that he develops into something more as well.

I just can't wait until I can finally say the Oilers have a real true top pairing type duo. I really don't care who it ends up being as long as it doesn't take more then 2-3 years for it to happen.

Seriously, what's the matter with you? All your posts are about Marincin and Klefbom, and how much better Marincin is. I don't know what's going with you, but it's not healthy.

 

[guymez]

The Flames haven't won a single thing yet. I'm not saying it won't happen for them, but until they actually accomplish something I wouldn't be patting them on the back. Maybe they are for real. Maybe they are the Leafs. If you remember what the Leafs were a couple season's back, there was a ton of optimism around the squad and they were winning a lot more than the Flames. Both were built with the same basic principles and pieces.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. Until a team can win 'something' they have to build a foundation.

The Flames are doing that...they have a very good defence, #1 goalie (with a very capable backup) and a very good mix of youth, veteran experience, grit and speed on their forward lines.
All that in just 2 years.
They have also drafted well beyond the first round.

Comparatively speaking what have the Oilers done after 6 years?

Good defence...nope.

#1 goalie...nope.

Good mix of youth, veteran experience, grit and speed up front....nope.

Good drafting....nope.


It doesnt matter how you frame it...the Flames are destroying the Oilers in terms of how to properly put together a foundation for success. The kicker is they are doing it using a systematic, well thought out plan. Building from the back end out.

Does it really take 6 years of bungling to figure out what direction to take?

Seriously...what is this teams plan for success and how many years are they going to take to figure it out?

 

[guymez]

I can see how you would be conditioned to thinking that they've "figured it out" already, given that you live in Calgary and are surrounded by their rhetoric. The season isn't over, and they are barely scraping into the playoffs, not to mention that their constant "comeback heroics" bode ill for their playoff success (you cannot relying on third-period comebacks in the playoffs--no bloody chance they maintain those percentages in the post-season, so let's not kid ourselves about that). What's more, if recent history has told us anything about success in the NHL, it's that teams can fluctuate drastically from one season to the next. So what if the Flames manage to secure a low seeded spot in the playoffs this year, only to finish out of contention the next? Look at Colorado, Arizona, Columbus, New York Islanders as recent examples of teams making big jumps and tumbles in the standings. As far as I can tell, Calgary hasn't figured anything out until they: 1) make the playoffs; and, 2.) maintain consistent success.

Well...as I have stated this is year 2 for them.
If they miss the playoffs how can that be considered a failure?

Are you telling me that the Flames haven't got a solid foundation for future success?

How do the Oilers even compare at this point?

 

[oiler4ever]

check out Hendrick's helmet

 

[guymez]

check out Hendrick's helmet

Great shot.

Nice to see the boys having a little fun (playing last place hockey) for a change.

 

[soothsayer]

Well...as I have stated this is year 2 for them.
If they miss the playoffs how can that be considered a failure?

Are you telling me that the Flames haven't got a solid foundation for future success?

How do the Oilers even compare at this point?

If you want to mark whether or not the Flames' performance is successful relative to the Oilers place in the standings, then fine, the Flames are successful. But then so are 28 other teams.

I'm just not sure how you can call them a successful rebuild at this point. No one is saying that Columbus or Colorado has successfully rebuilt their team (even though they are better than the Oilers), and likewise no one should (seriously) jump the gun by claiming that Calgary has successfully rebuilt their team. If they make the playoffs this year and next year, then we can talk about how successful they've been, because then we would at least have a model of consistency to base our argument.

 

[harpoon]

At the beginning of the season I was shocked to see posters piling on Eberle.
The simple truth is that nobody scores more goals for this team. Nobody.
You just don't trade away hands like that.

you want to identify forwards who other players have there best results with.
75% + of players got their best results with Nilsson and Cogliano.
Went sent away Nilsson and Traded Cogliano.
We kept the player only 33% of players had there best results with. Gagner!

I do try to understand your posts, honest, but sometimes I guess your mastery of the minutia of stats, and your ability to wring from them conclusions that defy logic, makes me confused as to what your actual point is. Are you saying we should have retained the services of Nilsson (currently 0.65ppg in the Swiss league) and Cogliano? And, if so, how does that point fit in with the topic of the Sharks game?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Remember when we all thought the Avs were rebuilt in a fraction of the time?

That's the Flames right now.

 

[Mr Positive]

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. Until a team can win 'something' they have to build a foundation.

The Flames are doing that...they have a very good defence, #1 goalie (with a very capable backup) and a very good mix of youth, veteran experience, grit and speed on their forward lines.
All that in just 2 years.
They have also drafted well beyond the first round.

Comparatively speaking what have the Oilers done after 6 years?

Good defence...nope.

#1 goalie...nope.

Good mix of youth, veteran experience, grit and speed up front....nope.

Good drafting....nope.


It doesnt matter how you frame it...the Flames are destroying the Oilers in terms of how to properly put together a foundation for success. The kicker is they are doing it using a systematic, well thought out plan. Building from the back end out.

Does it really take 6 years of bungling to figure out what direction to take?

Seriously...what is this teams plan for success and how many years are they going to take to figure it out?

The Flames have decent goaltending, not great. I pointed to the Leafs there, who arguably have a better goalie in Bernier. Hiller hasn't outplayed their other guy.

As for their D, aside from Giordano it's average. They are in a playoff spot based on their GF, not GA, which again is like the Leafs. The only reason they have a rep as good D is because their one elite player is a D. I would love to see how their amazing D system and philosophies would hold up if Gio were injured, because if it would be like last year when Gio was injured we're talking about a total implosion.

Ultimately, we can't know before it happens. I'm just presenting a possiblity, and I'm doing so because a lot of people seem to think that the Flames' success is virtually guaranteed to be permanent.

And I just chose the Leafs as an example. There are many other examples of flash in the pan teams, and the one thing held in common is that while they are winning the popular opinion is that the team is for real and has created a great foundation. Every time. There are other times where they do sustain it. We can't know.

 

[McJeety McJeet]

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. Until a team can win 'something' they have to build a foundation.

The Flames are doing that...they have a very good defence, #1 goalie (with a very capable backup) and a very good mix of youth, veteran experience, grit and speed on their forward lines.
All that in just 2 years.
They have also drafted well beyond the first round.

Comparatively speaking what have the Oilers done after 6 years?

Good defence...nope.

#1 goalie...nope.

Good mix of youth, veteran experience, grit and speed up front....nope.

Good drafting....nope.


It doesnt matter how you frame it...the Flames are destroying the Oilers in terms of how to properly put together a foundation for success. The kicker is they are doing it using a systematic, well thought out plan. Building from the back end out.

Does it really take 6 years of bungling to figure out what direction to take?

Seriously...what is this teams plan for success and how many years are they going to take to figure it out?

They have a #1 goalie who's lost his #1 status with another team once in his career. Hiller has had good years and bad years, he is not a guarantee.

You're correct on the good mix of youth and vets though. Depending you what you believe this can be a good or bad thing. Show of hands who thinks Calgary is going to be challenging Chicago, LA, STL, or Nashville anytime soon? I think they're going to be good enough to be in purgatory i.e 10 th to 7th for the next couple years. We've seen that show before around here. Burke believes in this model, he believes in getting competitive as quickly as possible and then go from there. This can work when you get Neidermayer and Pronger for instance and is less effective if you get Phaneuf and Kessel.

 

[Aerchon]

Seriously, what's the matter with you? All your posts are about Marincin and Klefbom, and how much better Marincin is. I don't know what's going with you, but it's not healthy.

Lol,

Marincin being better than Klefbom is one of my go to posts but only when others bring up how good Klefbom is playing.

Break out the Klefbom highlights and you will be vastly disappointed. This guy is not on anyone's radar but Oilers fans right now.

I just dislike how much hype he gets for basically not sucking. Typical Oilers fans drooling over a mediocre performance just cause he was once a highly touted prospect.

Anyone with eyes knows Marincin was better in the early goings of this year and of course was lights out last year. I suppose I shouldn't dwell on the past but not playing Marincin this year just seems stupid beyond all reason.

I like Klefbom and think he will be a solid NHLer for this club but people are just going overboard with their praise.

 

[Pablo Aimar]

Lol,

Marincin being better than Klefbom is one of my go to posts but only when others bring up how good Klefbom is playing.

Break out the Klefbom highlights and you will be vastly disappointed. This guy is not on anyone's radar but Oilers fans right now.

I just dislike how much hype he gets for basically not sucking. Typical Oilers fans drooling over a mediocre performance just cause he was once a highly touted prospect.

Anyone with eyes knows Marincin was better in the early goings of this year and of course was lights out last year. I suppose I shouldn't dwell on the past but not playing Marincin this year just seems stupid beyond all reason.

I like Klefbom and think he will be a solid NHLer for this club but people are just going overboard with their praise.

Well said.