News Article: In which R** R**** gets laughed at by the players he writes about..

[steveg]

I dunno.
As a hockey player, he doesn't seem like a bad guy around the locker room and doesn't ask d*** questions. Stupid ones sure but still.

Doesn't seem to mind it when you goof on him either. I'd buy him a beer.

I understand your point here...yes, there could be worse folks with a pass to the players' locker room, such as someone who treated the players poorly. I understand what you are saying. He could be a real jerk. Fair enough.

My point though is, I believe that if you are going to be a "hockey writer," you need to have MORE knowledge about hockey than most of your readers -- that's your job. If you DON'T, then it's incumbent upon you (and you should realize this without your boss telling you so) to get yourself educated and "up to speed" regarding the sport.

I would hope that you would not hire me to be the beat writer for soccer. I know next to nothing about soccer, and you should not hire me for that job, as a result. BUT -- if you DO hire me, you can rest assured that I will immediately get MYSELF on a crash course to learn as much as I possibly can about soccer, so that I can perform my job with some level of confidence and authority. I would owe that to my employer, my readers, and myself.

I do not CARE if Rossi didn't know what an F3 was before he was hired. Fair enough. But, it bothers me that he doesn't know what an F3 is NOW -- as a long-employed hockey beat writer; however, even given that he still doesn't really know what the F3 is, it ESPECIALLY bothers me that he would write about an F3 given that he really doesn't know what one is. DO NOT discuss something you know do not know about -- because if you do, you are spreading mis-information and many un-informed people will be mis-led, as they would generally be assuming that you DID know what you were talking about. Instead, take the fact that something came up which you are not familiar with, and GO LEARN ABOUT IT, before writing an article in which you run the risk of mis-educating uninformed people (and exposing your ignorance to informed people).

 

[edog37]

Wow, Geno and Neal were ripping into him. Idiot. Where'd he go to school?

WVU which explains it all....

but in all fairness to Rob, I exchanged some emails with him when we were going through the entire arena ordeal & he was cool. He never took a condescending attitude & it was almost like emailing a buddy. He may be a little clueless about the technical aspects of the game, but he's a good dude on the whole....I'd grab a beer with him....

 

[Ogrezilla]

WVU which explains it all....

but in all fairness to Rob, I exchanged some emails with him when we were going through the entire arena ordeal & he was cool. He never took a condescending attitude & it was almost like emailing a buddy. He may be a little clueless about the technical aspects of the game, but he's a good dude on the whole....I'd grab a beer with him....

nobody is saying he's a bad dude. Like steveg said, its not even a huge deal if he doesn't know what an F3 is. He should considering his job, but whatever. BUT if he doesn't know what an F3 is, he really shouldn't be using the term F3 in his articles. He might be a good guy. He is a bad journalist though.

 

[mrzeigler]

I actual believe him when he was asking "what did I write?". I doubt he even knows what he wrote, let alone what it all means.

I know people aren't considered one of the cool kids unless they say Rossi is an idiot, but I'm almost certain that his "what did I write?" question comes from a position that's basically this: "You say I got it wrong. And you just explained how it should be. Didn't I write that? How is what I wrote different from that?" Every reporter — and I mean EVERY reporter — experiences that exchange on at least a semi-regular basis because multiple editors/copyeditors get their fingers on each story and because of the workload that reporters have (once you finish a story, you move on to the next one and forget many of the details you just wrote about).

This is a situation of nuance, and any HFboards member who has had his posts picked apart and quoted sentence by sentence in a tedious response (which I'm probably inviting by writing this) should understand the situation.

It appears from the video that Rossi generalized "F3" in a way that made it appear Neal always is "F3." As we saw at the end of the clip when they were walking down the hallway, Rossi said he meant that in general sense — that Neal usually has the F3 duties on that line — but the players, who are experts on the system, read the story with an expert eye and focused on the precise definition of F3, which is that it's a shifting designation based on what everyone is doing on the ice.

Funny how so many HFboards members imply that precise knowledge of the "F3" designation is such a basic thing that every Pens follower knows it ... yet no one ridiculed Rossi for what presumably is an obvious gaffe until they saw video in which Pens players raised the issue first.

And no, I'm not Rob Rossi. Nor do I know the guy.

 

[ColePens]

Some of the personal attacks have to stop in this thread. But here are my opinions on the video:

Rossi comes off as arrogant and as if he knows all of this information. He's put himself out there with some VERY interesting "rumors" that fell flat on their face. It's a live or die industry based on sources. He's created this for himself.

In discussion of the F3, I was very shocked to even hear he wrote an article (obviously I did not read) where he stated a single person is the F3. That's never the case in hockey. The reason they are numbered is because it's based by where they are on the ice. That's common knowledge to even a person who watches a few hockey games. 1st guy in... no matter who it is. 2nd guy used to attack, too, but now sort of waits for the initial pass. F3, which we barely even use anymore so I'm amazed it's even a discussion point, is the last guy in. I don't get Rossi's point and he looks like a complete fool in this video. He's missing an EASY concept and trying to write something that makes zero sense to hockey players. That's why Neal gave him the business.

I also think Neal did a good job because his lack of intelligence on the system and the way he comes off would drive me up a wall. I'd be so rude to him. Thought Neal did a good job first even READING the article and second trying to help him understand it.

The fact he still didn't understand the lines is hilarious. Even Steigy knew what he was doing and didn't have to see it.

 

[Harv]

Funny how so many HFboards members imply that precise knowledge of the "F3" designation is such a basic thing that every Pens follower knows it ... yet no one ridiculed Rossi for what presumably is an obvious gaffe until they saw video in which Pens players raised the issue first.

To be honest, posters on this board aren't reading Rossi articles for hockey knowledge. They aren't reading them at all.

That's why he wasn't called out. No one saw it.

 

[steveg]

Funny how so many HFboards members imply that precise knowledge of the "F3" designation is such a basic thing that every Pens follower knows it ...

I can't speak for everyone else's thoughts in this thread, but from my perspective I don't expect "every Pens follower" to know what an F3 is. Not at all. MY point is that a hockey writer SHOULD know this -- but at the VERY LEAST, if he does NOT, he should CERTAINLY have enough humility such that he shouldn't be trying to pretend that he does. Writing about things he doesn't know much about will do little more than mis-inform a large number of people (who weren't educated enough themselves to realize they were being "BSed").

The reason I think this is important, and why I'm still discussing it, is because it really has an effect on the knowledge level of the fan base, and in my opinion, you generally are better off when a town's fan base has a decent understanding of the sport they are fans of. Obviously, some fans are clueless and always will be; others are highly knowledgeable (who have played or closely followed the sport). However, a majority are in the middle -- they know a little, but not a ton, and it's these fans who could be really helped if a town has very good analysts, broadcasters, and writers. If folks like Rossi and others took the personal responsibility to become educated to a high degree regarding hockey and hockey strategy, then the majority of the Pens fan base would, over time, become more knowledgeable and educated just by listening to broadcasts, reading the local reporting, etc. HOWEVER, on the other hand, if the broadcasters and reporters are clueless, and yet acting as though they are knowledgeable (i.e. using buzz words and jargon but in an incorrect manner), then they are doing nothing more than mis-informing the fan base, thus making it less likely that the fan base ever becomes more knowledgeable.

 

[DeadGator401]

To be honest, posters on this board aren't reading Rossi articles for hockey knowledge. They aren't reading them at all.

That's why he wasn't called out. No one saw it.

^Yup. If I even hear Rossis name on the radio, I turn it off. I don't want to listen to him, let alone read his work.

 

[edog37]

nobody is saying he's a bad dude. Like steveg said, its not even a huge deal if he doesn't know what an F3 is. He should considering his job, but whatever. BUT if he doesn't know what an F3 is, he really shouldn't be using the term F3 in his articles. He might be a good guy. He is a bad journalist though.

in truth, there really aren't any decent journalists in Pittsburgh either....

 

[JQR]

Pro Tip: F3 is also the shortcut for Ctrl+F, which displays a "find" bar in your browser.

 

[Allie Kitsune]

I can't speak for everyone else's thoughts in this thread, but from my perspective I don't expect "every Pens follower" to know what an F3 is. Not at all. MY point is that a hockey writer SHOULD know this -- but at the VERY LEAST, if he does NOT, he should CERTAINLY have enough humility such that he shouldn't be trying to pretend that he does. Writing about things he doesn't know much about will do little more than mis-inform a large number of people (who weren't educated enough themselves to realize they were being "BSed").

The reason I think this is important, and why I'm still discussing it, is because it really has an effect on the knowledge level of the fan base, and in my opinion, you generally are better off when a town's fan base has a decent understanding of the sport they are fans of. Obviously, some fans are clueless and always will be; others are highly knowledgeable (who have played or closely followed the sport). However, a majority are in the middle -- they know a little, but not a ton, and it's these fans who could be really helped if a town has very good analysts, broadcasters, and writers. If folks like Rossi and others took the personal responsibility to become educated to a high degree regarding hockey and hockey strategy, then the majority of the Pens fan base would, over time, become more knowledgeable and educated just by listening to broadcasts, reading the local reporting, etc. HOWEVER, on the other hand, if the broadcasters and reporters are clueless, and yet acting as though they are knowledgeable (i.e. using buzz words and jargon but in an incorrect manner), then they are doing nothing more than mis-informing the fan base, thus making it less likely that the fan base ever becomes more knowledgeable.

I have to agree with this. I'm someone who, despite watching for a long time, does NOT understand how to truly watch a game to be able to pick out the technical aspects and be able to tell when someone made a mistake (especially at their own blue line or around the net), when someone isn't doing the "little things" right. I've never played the game (never had the money or opportunity to play on ice at a proper organized level), so I don't know what I'm supposed to be looking for. I'd _like_ to know these things. But it seems like the broadcast team and the 'journalists' either take it for granted that everyone already does, or they just don't give a damn.

 

[theicebox]

Pro Tip: F3 is also the shortcut for Ctrl+F, which displays a "find" bar in your browser.

Much love for this post. Rossi probably would have said Ctrl+P.

 

[Fordy]

I know people aren't considered one of the cool kids unless they say Rossi is an idiot, but I'm almost certain that his "what did I write?" question comes from a position that's basically this: "You say I got it wrong. And you just explained how it should be. Didn't I write that? How is what I wrote different from that?" Every reporter — and I mean EVERY reporter — experiences that exchange on at least a semi-regular basis because multiple editors/copyeditors get their fingers on each story and because of the workload that reporters have (once you finish a story, you move on to the next one and forget many of the details you just wrote about).

This is a situation of nuance, and any HFboards member who has had his posts picked apart and quoted sentence by sentence in a tedious response (which I'm probably inviting by writing this) should understand the situation.

It appears from the video that Rossi generalized "F3" in a way that made it appear Neal always is "F3." As we saw at the end of the clip when they were walking down the hallway, Rossi said he meant that in general sense — that Neal usually has the F3 duties on that line — but the players, who are experts on the system, read the story with an expert eye and focused on the precise definition of F3, which is that it's a shifting designation based on what everyone is doing on the ice.

Funny how so many HFboards members imply that precise knowledge of the "F3" designation is such a basic thing that every Pens follower knows it ... yet no one ridiculed Rossi for what presumably is an obvious gaffe until they saw video in which Pens players raised the issue first.

And no, I'm not Rob Rossi. Nor do I know the guy.

No one ridiculed Rossi, I'm assuming, because no one on here really reads his articles and weren't aware he said it until this video came out.

Steiggy and Errey have spent full months never shutting up about the F3. If you consider yourself a Pens fan and don't have at least some basic knowledge of what it is as this point then you're not paying attention.

 

[Allie Kitsune]

No one ridiculed Rossi, I'm assuming, because no one on here really reads his articles and weren't aware he said it until this video came out.

Steiggy and Errey have spent full months never shutting up about the F3. If you consider yourself a Pens fan and don't have at least some basic knowledge of what it is as this point then you're not paying attention.

Caufield brought it up once, but people in the thread have been talking about it "constantly changing", which is a detail he didn't really go into. Does this just mean throughout the course of the game (iow : it won't always be the same guy coming in 3rd), or that it can constantly change during the course of a shift (iow : as the forwards move around, whichever is 3rd back instantly becomes F3)?

And yes, you can mock me all you want for not knowing.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Mr. Z: Has nothing to do with being "one of the cool kids". Where the hell did that come from? The people who are calling him out and explaining why are talking about the level of professionalism and knowledge he displays and in both cases it's routinely poor. Stop making excuses for the guy or making it out to be some sort of "group think" excercise. His crappy reporting is on display for all to see on a weekly basis. Not like it's any great secret.

 

[WhatsaMaatta]

Caufield brought it up once, but people in the thread have been talking about it "constantly changing", which is a detail he didn't really go into. Does this just mean throughout the course of the game (iow : it won't always be the same guy coming in 3rd), or that it can constantly change during the course of a shift (iow : as the forwards move around, whichever is 3rd back instantly becomes F3)?

And yes, you can mock me all you want for not knowing.

It's situational moreso than shift by shift.

 

[Fordy]

Caufield brought it up once, but people in the thread have been talking about it "constantly changing", which is a detail he didn't really go into. Does this just mean throughout the course of the game (iow : it won't always be the same guy coming in 3rd), or that it can constantly change during the course of a shift (iow : as the forwards move around, whichever is 3rd back instantly becomes F3)?

And yes, you can mock me all you want for not knowing.

The F3 is just the third guy into the zone. That's why Rossi sounds so ridiculous. No one is "usually" the F3, it's not predetermined who it is. It's just the third person to get into the zone.

 

[Fordy]

It can change multiple times in one shift, or be the same for the whole game, if that's the way it works out. But its not planned that way, it's purely situational.

 

[WhatsaMaatta]

The F3 is just the third guy into the zone. That's why Rossi sounds so ridiculous. No one is "usually" the F3, it's not predetermined who it is. It's just the third person to get into the zone.

This is why I never read anything Rossi says. The guy is so misinformed, yet people continually give his articles hits.

 

[billybudd]

Pro Tip: F3 is also the shortcut for Ctrl+F, which displays a "find" bar in your browser.

Huh. So I was pushing 1 more key than I needed to. Cool, thanks.

 

[steveg]

Caufield brought it up once, but people in the thread have been talking about it "constantly changing", which is a detail he didn't really go into. Does this just mean throughout the course of the game (iow : it won't always be the same guy coming in 3rd), or that it can constantly change during the course of a shift (iow : as the forwards move around, whichever is 3rd back instantly becomes F3)?

And yes, you can mock me all you want for not knowing.

Hikaru -- I see NO reason to mock you, at all! You are on here trying to learn/become more knowledgeable! That's a good thing, a respectable thing. Rossi could learn a few things from you, here...

I'm no expert -- I have only played a very small amount of hockey that was organized enough to get into a little strategy. But -- I do know that who the F3 is changes throughout the course of the game, and even through the course of a shift. That's the whole point of it...it's a system where player duties are fluid (and based upon who enters the zone when), as opposed to more "fixed" responsibilities.

Now, a coach may DESIRE for a particular player to ideally, normally be the F1 (i.e. Cookie seems to be this guy quite often on his line, during a rush; Dupers and Kuni are both good at this role, though Sid is good at it to). Basically, your gritty/fast guy on a line is the ideal one to be the aggressive forechecker, so if he can be first into the zone, becoming the F1, then that works out nicely. Consequently, on Geno's line, Nealer is NOT the "ideal" guy to be the F1...he's not the speediest player, but he IS a very talented shooter, obviously -- he likes to score from "soft spots" in the defense from the slot/high slot area, or sometimes from the half-boards area. SO -- he's an IDEAL guy to be the F3, since AS the F3, he can hang high and wait for the F1/F2 to dug pucks from deep in the zone and feed him. Now, let's say Morrow and Geno and Nealer are on a line, and Morrow is backchecking hard. Geno gets the puck and starts skating up the left side of the neutral zone, with Nealer ahead of him near the right point. If Geno fires the puck in around behind the net, Nealer will enter the zone and now his role is to assume F1 duties -- i.e. charge into the zone and forecheck hard. Geno would then skate in to support Nealer; if Nealer got possession of the puck, Geno would probably set up near the slot for a shot; if NOT, if Nealer is battling, then Geno would assume F2 duties and head in deep, looking for Nealer to work the puck around to Geno along the boards, while Morrow entering the zone late would assume F3 duties and set up in the vicinity of the slot, looking for a pass from either Geno or Nealer from the end boards area.

Obviously, things happen -- and I am not sure what happens to the F1/F2/F3 roles when play is sustained in the O-zone for a long time. For instance, let's say Neal and Geno lose the puck, and a defender takes the puck behind the net and tries to fire it out of the zone along the boards, but a Pens defender has set up near the point and intercepts the clearing attempt. Now, I don't know what the Pens like for the three forwards in the o-zone to do -- or if "F1, F2, or F3" still apply...but I would expect that in general, Morrow would do most of the dirty work near the end boards, and some combination of Geno or Nealer would generally stay a bit higher in the zone -- either along the boards, or in the slot.

Someone who is better with strategy may be able to chime in here, but I think this is the basic idea, and I think answers some of your questions.

Bottom line is, there are some guys who would be ideal "F1" guys (like Cookie), and others who are ideal "F3" guys (like Nealer), but any time Nealer (for whatever reason) is first into the zone, he assumes F1 duties in most cases, whereas on the other hand, if Cookie is late into the zone, he should (at least temporarily) move into the high slot area as the F3...

That's my understanding of how things work (but of course, this also is not set in stone, as this whole F1/F2/F3 thing is only ONE of the plans of attack when entering the zone...there are other strategies/ways of doing things as well...)

 

[billybudd]

The F3 is just the third guy into the zone. That's why Rossi sounds so ridiculous. No one is "usually" the F3, it's not predetermined who it is. It's just the third person to get into the zone.

Well, back at the beginning of the year when Neal and Geno were bolting for the opposition's blueline every time it looked like a D -might- get possession in his own zone, the other forward was usually F3.

 

[Ogrezilla]

there's no reason anyone should feel bad for not knowing what an F3 is. Just don't write articles about it if that's the case

 

[Fuzzy Bunny]

[wrong thread]

 

[Fuzzy Bunny]

He is a terrible journalist and clearly a pretty big loser. Part of me feels bad for him.