Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LXXXVI ‎

[m0ngr31]

It will probably be Orpik reasonable, considering they offered Orpik that ridiculous contract.

Isn't their MO to lowball the good players and then panic and overpay on the crappier ones?

 

[RockLobster]

It will probably be Orpik reasonable, considering they offered Orpik that ridiculous contract.

You need to come to terms that $ for 2nd pairing defenders has risen--whether we like it or not.

You bring up Orpik, which is true, but Petry also signed for 5.5M, so that seems to be on the higher side of the scale for 2nd pairing defensemen. Can't compare to previous salaries, especially contracts like Keith's that is a cap-circumventing deal.

UFA prices are consistently going to go up, if the Avs want to be serious about fixing their defense, they can't keep trotting out career AHLers like Guenin and Holden, and patchwork from older players who should clearly be on the bottom pairing (Stuart/Hejda).

 

[Avsboy]

Isn't their MO to lowball the good players and then panic and overpay on the crappier ones?

I have said, and still believe, that Sakic identifies players they were good when he played and overpays them even though they suck today. So he doesn't knowingly pay for bad players....he thinks they're good. Stuart, Orpik, etc... Oduya is sort of an exception, although he was alright when Sakic was around. But the idea is that Sakic and Roy think Oduya is good, even though he isn't, and willl overpay for him.

@RL That's why I'm hoping RoR gets traded for either a young cost-controlled D or traded for a D already signed to a good deal. I have suggested Gardiner who is signed to a reasonable cap hit, but that didn't fly well...so a D of similar calibre with similar cap hit.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Hypothetical here. If it ends up being Gardiner in a trade and Oduya signed, to what degree could y'all live with that as a "fix" on defense?

 

[hughdreamz]

Hypothetical here. If it ends up being Gardiner in a trade and Oduya signed, to what degree could y'all live with that as a "fix" on defense?

It's definitely an improvement, but not a fix. I'd be disappointed. I'm fine with Oduya at the right price. The Gardiner trade just can't involve ROR.

 

[RockLobster]

I don't want anything to do with Gardiner...and I'm not sure if it's because I'm not a fan of his (which is valid, I'm not) or because I don't want to trade with Toronto (also true...if we trade him to TOR for a package featuring Gardiner, we're going to be overrun with Leafs trolls).

 

[Freudian]

Hypothetical here. If it ends up being Gardiner in a trade and Oduya signed, to what degree could y'all live with that as a "fix" on defense?

You'll never sniff a cup with that defense. Perhaps a lucky run to the second round.

Gardiner will get destroyed in the playoffs. The guy is afraid to get hit.

 

[lonelybadger]

I would be super angry at the Gardiner part. He hasn't cannot play on a top pairing and would be brutal with Barrie. Realistically, at the draft if arizona takes strome leaving hanifin, the leafs could draft hanifin and trade Reilly for O'Reilly. Then they get their number 1 defensive c, and a better defenseman.

 

[Avsboy]

Hypothetical here. If it ends up being Gardiner in a trade and Oduya signed, to what degree could y'all live with that as a "fix" on defense?

I'd be upset. I can live with Oduya or Gardiner, but not both.

To me, it needs to be one of Gardiner, Oduya, Zadorov, etc... and one of Sekera, Ehrhoff, Martin, Beauchemin, etc... with different combinations making me feel differently. Best possible scenario is Zadorov and Sekera, or two from the second, better list I gave.

Worst is two from the first list ie: Oduya and Gardiner. Sure, that's an upgrade, but it's a lot of money tied up to two mediocre players.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I'd sure as hell take a chance on Gardiner before Phaneuf, but Gardiner is far from ideal. He hasn't hit 300 games yet, so I think there's still something more in him, but he's down my list of defenders I'd want for ROR.

 

[landy92mack29]

Depends what they'd add to Gardiner. would need Gardiner+24+?

 

[AslanRH]

Depends what they'd add to Gardiner. would need Gardiner+24+?

Gardiner + 24 + Gauthier

That is actually what I have penciled in as the Toronto return in my off-season notes

e: should clarify, not the notes I want to happen, but what I think will happen

 

[tigervixxxen]

Gardiner + 24 + Gauthier

That is actually what I have penciled in as the Toronto return in my off-season notes

e: should clarify, not the notes I want to happen, but what I think will happen

I could see that happen. I could live with it.

 

[dahrougem2]

I have said, and still believe, that Sakic identifies players they were good when he played and overpays them even though they suck today. So he doesn't knowingly pay for bad players....he thinks they're good. Stuart, Orpik, etc... Oduya is sort of an exception, although he was alright when Sakic was around. But the idea is that Sakic and Roy think Oduya is good, even though he isn't, and willl overpay for him.

@RL That's why I'm hoping RoR gets traded for either a young cost-controlled D or traded for a D already signed to a good deal. I have suggested Gardiner who is signed to a reasonable cap hit, but that didn't fly well...so a D of similar calibre with similar cap hit.

You can't honestly believe that he identifies players who were good when he played, can you?

Sure, he traded for Brad Stuart. But Stuart is a solid #5 defenseman who can play as a #4 for a short bit if injuries occur if you ask me, and you can bet your bottom dollar he was going to be getting at least $3M per season as a UFA. The price he got is the going rate for defensemen.

Brooks Orpik showed this season that is still a darn good player and a top-pairing defenseman. Will it last? I don't know but if he can keep up his play from this past season, that contract isn't bad at all. I'll be the first to admit I thought the contract was awful and was not a fan of Orpik's in Pittsburgh, but he was very good this past season.

Johnny Oduya is a good defenseman. He's not top-pairing material, but he's a 2nd pairing defenseman. Will I be happy if they give Oduya $5M per on a long-term deal? Probably not, but we've seen a lot of championship teams have a player or two with "bad" contracts but still contribute, so long as they manage the other areas of the roster well i.e. integrating young players and/or finding good value free agents.

If in a couple years this team is contending and we have players like Bleackley, Bigras, Siemens, Everberg, Rendulic, and our 10th pick playing big/supporting roles, I'll be fine with Oduya as a 2nd pairing defenseman. Eventually this team has to improve the D. It's been far too long since we had a competent defence core.

 

[CB Joe]

Hypothetical here. If it ends up being Gardiner in a trade and Oduya signed, to what degree could y'all live with that as a "fix" on defense?

I could live with it but the Avs would have to have a strong offence. To me it would mean replacing O'Reilly with a capable top 6 player and completely rebuilding the bottom six.

 

[Ivan13]

You'll never sniff a cup with that defense. Perhaps a lucky run to the second round.

Gardiner will get destroyed in the playoffs. The guy is afraid to get hit.

Pretty much, defensively and on the physical side he's pretty much like Stef. Except that he's paid way more.

Getting Oduya and Gardiner won't improve our D by leaps and bounds.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

The Duchene/ROR talk hurts my head.

As for Oduya, I thought he was wearing down and I wasn't big on him until now. Was amazing in the playoffs. Go get him! Plus he's Swedish, somehow?

 

[Foppa]

The Duchene/ROR talk hurts my head.

As for Oduya, I thought he was wearing down and I wasn't big on him until now. Was amazing in the playoffs. Go get him! Plus he's Swedish, somehow?

I think Oduya, although old at 33, could be a guy like Hejda who has a solid career till he is 35-36...nothing flashy just keeps chugging along with 80 fairly solid games a year. And unlike Hejda he skates very well. I think he could be a nice secondary move to improve the defense on a reasonable 3 year deal.

 

[lonelybadger]

Oduya is a great partner for Barrie. He would be an upgrade on the top pairing from whaylt rhe avs havw now but ideally he isn't their only improvement on d.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I think Oduya, although old at 33, could be a guy like Hejda who has a solid career till he is 35-36...nothing flashy just keeps chugging along with 80 fairly solid games a year. And unlike Hejda he skates very well. I think he could be a nice secondary move to improve the defense on a reasonable 3 year deal.

I'm actually still a fan of Hejda. Would love to have him back on the 3rd pairing and bump one of Guenin, Stuart or Holden out.

 

[ABasin]

Pretty much, defensively and on the physical side he's pretty much like Stef. Except that he's paid way more.

Getting Oduya and Gardiner won't improve our D by leaps and bounds.

EJ-Barrie-Oduya-Gardiner-Redmond-Stuart is a fast, mobile defense (Stuart is a much better skater than many in here give him credit for). Holden-Guenin simply cannot skate, and replacing them with those two guys certainly does improve the defense. Though I'm leaving Hejda out of my analysis here.

That said, Freudian is correct, IMO. That ain't a cup-contending defense.

I think people should probably start thinking along the lines of Gardiner (or a player like him) as the roster piece coming back for O'R. Add a prospect and a pick to it, and that's the trade. I still maintain that there's a damn good chance Sakic is going to look at that and simply play with O'R for one more season.

 

[lonelybadger]

Ror and 10 for Merrill and 6? Then draft provorov and have all the defense?

 

[AslanRH]

Oduya was better in the playoffs than I expected (or expect from him going forward), but my concern is that we don't have a Hjalmarsson to pair him with.

I hope they go 3 years or less on him if that is the route they go which will likely cause them not to win the bidding.

 

[lonelybadger]

Agree with you AsianRH, more than three years for oduya is too much.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I would take Duchene over RoR if he cost a million more than RoR. Duchene is just a significantly better player. Edit: With far greater upside.

This. Silly people.