Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LXXX

[cgf]

I wouldn't have minded Hejda being moved because i'm assuming we're going to bring in a young NHL dman in the ROR trade and they're going to chase a UFA to play with EJ. In that case having Stuart, Holden and Redmond trying to keep the kids off of the third pairing would be fine.

UFA - EJ
ROR - Barrie
Stuart/Holden/Redmond/Siemens/Bigras
Guenin

So, recouping at least one of the 2nds we've sent out would've been nice. But ultimately not vital.

 

[bohlmeister]

I keep seeing "UFA". It may as well be UFO. Have people looked at the list of UFA's this off season. That hole won't be plugged.

 

[viach]

Big difference between the 32nd pick and the 54th. But sure I wish we still had those seconds too, not going to deny that.

At this point though, isn't it about being right? How many times does the same thing have to be said?

Boston has no money, they probably couldn't do the deal without the retention. And Talbot was shocked, he wasn't behind the move.

Exactly on of my recent post...What all think ??

Last day, I was thinking how to improve the defensive with ROR resign to long term. And I am looking at RFA at D position this summer

Only one guy is interesting : Doug Hamilton

Ok, no need to jump on me but with big contract like :
- Bergeron (7.5 M), Lucic (6.5 M), Krejci (7.25M), Marchand (4.5 M), Eriksson (4.5M)
- Chara (7M), Seidenberg (4.5M)
- Rask (7.5M)

And with players to resign like Connolly (RFA), Smith (RFA), Soderberg (UFA), Krug (RFA), McQuaid (UFA), Carey ()

So, I asked myself if Boston would be able to match a offer sheet ??

Anyway I do not like this kind of method and Colorado will not overpay for player but very attractive player on the restricted market

 

[cgf]

I keep seeing "UFA". It may as well be UFO. Have people looked at the list of UFA's this off season. That hole won't be plugged.

I still think Martin is exactly the kind of guy Patty and Joe would go for to fill the spot, with the whole cup winning vet thing. And I still don't think Pittsburgh keeps him and the Hoff, nor do I see them choosing to keep Martin over Erhoff. So while we may well not be able to get him, I don't think it would be a huge shock if we did. He's older, but would give us a nice solution so that Bigras and the ROR-return have another 2-3 seasons to learn before having to start pushing for both top 4 jobs.

 

[dahrougem2]

I wouldn't have minded Hejda being moved because i'm assuming we're going to bring in a young NHL dman in the ROR trade and they're going to chase a UFA to play with EJ. In that case having Stuart, Holden and Redmond trying to keep the kids off of the third pairing would be fine.

UFA - EJ
ROR - Barrie
Stuart/Holden/Redmond/Siemens/Bigras
Guenin

So, recouping at least one of the 2nds we've sent out would've been nice. But ultimately not vital.

There's no guarantee that they trade ROR though. After Sakic's interview saying he'd like to keep Hejda around and then doing just that, and Roy/Sakic both saying they're going to try to re-sign ROR this summer, I think priority #1 this summer is re-signing him.

If it comes to the point where he needs to be traded, then yes I do hope it's for a young LHD who can play with Barrie to start next season.

@bohlmeister Whether or not we're able to snag a UFA via free agency is totally up in the air, I agree. But the options aren't limited. At the moment LHD's alone are Sekera, Martin, and Erhoff who I put in the top-tier and capable of playing on the top-pair for at the very least 2 more years and by then, hopefully Bigras/Siemens will be ready to step into the line-up.

 

[cgf]

Yeah, but I'm not expecting it to work out. And if ROR gets put on the market I can't see Murray not making something around ROR and Zadorov happen. Zads would probably start the season on the third pairing with Holden or Stuart, with the other playing with Barrie until Zads is ready to take that job. If I'm wrong and we get to keep ROR, then that changes a lot, but I wouldn't be planning around that scenario coming to pass.

All in all I just think there's too much to do for us not to end up with one of Stuart or Holden starting the season with Barrie, which is far from ideal, but wouldn't be the end of the world if we find EJ a legit partner and have a young kid who'll soon be a top 4 guy on the third pairing.

 

[the_fan]

Well then, Steve Yzerman must not be a very good GM either, huh? Make the playoffs in his first season and go all the way to the conference finals, only to go the next two years missing the playoffs, during which his team finished 21st and 28th overall, respectively.

Nobody is saying you can't have an opinion. But it's the constant bashing of Sakic and Roy and EVERY. SINGLE. THING. that they do which is tiresome. Makes people think that even if they were to bring in Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin for a 7th round pick in 2069, you'd find some way to criticize it.

Yeah and i remember tons of Tampa fans bashing Yzerman, but he did redeem himself and start making the right moves.

Whether or not Sakic can do what Yzerman or any other successful GM have done is remain to be seen, that's why i remain pessimistic until i'm proven wrong.

 

[dahrougem2]

Yeah and i remember tons of Tampa fans bashing Yzerman, but he did redeem himself and start making the right moves.

Whether or not Sakic can do what Yzerman or any other successful GM have done is remain to be seen, that's why i remain pessimistic until i'm proven wrong.

It's one thing to remain pessimistic, but you're the furthest thing from that. You flat out say you don't have any faith in them whatsoever and bash any move that they make. That's not being pessimistic.

Ben Bishop, Tyler Johnson, Ondrej Palat, Nikita Kucherov, Jonathan Drouin, Ryan Callahan, Valtteri Filppula, Jason Garrison, Cedric Paquette, Brian Boyle, Andrej Sustr, and Nikita Nesterov are all players that Yzerman brought in, so yes he did redeem himself. But guess what? Sakic and Roy have been on the job for 1.5 YEARS.

It took Yzerman a heck of a lot longer than 1.5 years to turn the ship around in Tampa Bay. He basically rebuilt their prospect pool through the draft and through free agency. I'd say Roy and Sakic are attempting to do the same. The 2013 and 2014 drafts look very strong for us so far, and we've signed Everberg, Rendulic and Noreau as free agents, were arguably in the final two for Kevin Hayes, and will probably make more signings from Europe/NCAA this summer, too. Give it time.

 

[tigervixxxen]

First of all, those extensions to Duchene, Landeskog, Varly are standard GM moves. Those numbers are the right numbers and that's what those player worth at the time they were given the extensions.

Varly probably worth more right now, but Landeskog and Duchene are getting what they worth.

I still don't comprehend how those signings aren't seen as a key part of the foundation of this team. No it wasn't a difficult decision to decide to keep them, the act of getting them signed is hard part, and to team friendly terms no less. 2.5 years into the O'Reilly fiasco and you'd think that this fanbase would have much more of an appreciation of how much of a relief it is to have these guys taken care of. And no it wasn't just so easy to give them what their value is, and they all are worth more than their deals right now, I don't care what type of down year they are having. Getting Varly locked up before he was nominated for the Vezina was no accident either. Basically with those three they could be saving several millions a season just by getting them under contract when and how they did but please let's spend hours upon hours arguing over who is getting paid scratch above league minimum to play on this team.

 

[raistlin76]

I don't think AVS would stick with 6 million "no more" cap-hit because they know it will lead them to trade O'Reilly and return may not be that great. Reading O'Reilly comments looks like he wants to stay and is happy with Sakic comments. Maybe this time they will find common ground during negotiations and they will sign the extension. Stastny fiasco also may teach them it's not a good thing to send lowballing offers to your players, so they won't offer him 5 millions per year.

 

[ABasin]

No, but smart people tend to hit a lot more than they miss.

I don't disagree. But the Kroenkes were also in charge when the organization hired Sacco, ya know?

If you had me grade them, I'd give them a C. I don't trust them blindly. They just haven't done anything to lose my trust. I'm not in charge of the avs, so I have no say. I might as well trust the people making the calls until they prove they can't handle it. It's easier that way.

Fair enough, Tucker. And to be clear: I'm not denigrating your decision to give them your trust. That's obviously your right to have that opinion. I'm just more discussing the concept of handing out trust up front, rather than it having to be earned.

 

[ABasin]

They've done well with the rams.

Since they took over the Rams in 2010: 7-9/2-14/7-8-1/7-9/6-10. Zero playoff games. Two coaches. Two GMs.

They've been through 3 coaches and 2 GMs with the Nuggets in the last 5 years, and 2 coaches/2 GMs with the Avalanche as well. All totaled: 15 total sports seasons across 3 franchises in the last 5 years - 6 playoff appearances, 7 coaches, 6 GMs.

Just because that family is great at building retail businesses, doesn't mean they know how to build sports franchises.

 

[ABasin]

It's the same old story though. Message board posters think they know how to run the team better than the people actually doing the job. So when the team does something or doesnt do something that the message boarders want or don't want they throw a tantrum.

Or they simply post their opinion. I get that "posting anything negative about Golden Boy Sakic" = "tantrum" to some posters, but in the end, it's simply offering an opinion. If using conjecture wasn't acceptable in here, this forum would be a barren desert.

People in here have every right to criticize what Sakic/Roy do, just as they have every right to cheer for their heroes. It's two sides of the same coin. Neither is better or worse than the other, even if one wishes to categorize any opinion opposite his own as "a tantrum".

 

[Iceberg]

It's the same old story though. Message board posters think they know how to run the team better than the people actually doing the job. So when the team does something or doesnt do something that the message boarders want or don't want they throw a tantrum.

It's the same old story though. Message board posters normally are big homers, when a few other posters don't go that route and dare to criticize the team, they are accused of throwing tantrums or asked to go cheer for another team.

Aparently, if you are not dumping on Guenin's head all the time or whining about Wild fans you are some kind o masochist.

The only thing they did that seemed weird was retaining 50% of Talbots salary. But there is likely a story behind that. Maybe Talbot made a request to go back East and Sakic decided to accommodate it no matter what. Maybe Roy had an issue with him and decided he was willing to eat that salary to get rid of him.

Typical message board poster trying to make this out to be more than what it really is.

No, Roy had no issue with Talbot and Talbot didn't ask to be traded.

The Avs retained salary to make the trade work, since Boston is up against the cap and is looking to save as much cap space as they can.

 

[tucker3434]

I don't disagree. But the Kroenkes were also in charge when the organization hired Sacco, ya know?



Fair enough, Tucker. And to be clear: I'm not denigrating your decision to give them your trust. That's obviously your right to have that opinion. I'm just more discussing the concept of handing out trust up front, rather than it having to be earned.

This prayer pretty much nails my feelings on it:

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

I'm not infinitely trusting in my personal life. I haven't sent my life savings to a Nigerian prince or anything. I can't control the Avs, and I follow them for fun. It's just easier to trust those in power until proven otherwise.

 

[henchman21]

We should have a "who can belittle who the best" thread

We could have polls and everything

I'm going to have to step up my game.

 

[Alex Jones]

Since they took over the Rams in 2010: 7-9/2-14/7-8-1/7-9/6-10. Zero playoff games. Two coaches. Two GMs.

They've been through 3 coaches and 2 GMs with the Nuggets in the last 5 years, and 2 coaches/2 GMs with the Avalanche as well. All totaled: 15 total sports seasons across 3 franchises in the last 5 years - 6 playoff appearances, 7 coaches, 6 GMs.

Just because that family is great at building retail businesses, doesn't mean they know how to build sports franchises.

The rams are super close to being really good.

 

[ABasin]

But the draft picks!!! Won't somebody please think of the draft picks!?

(just good-natured ribbing)

But RL, the draft picks matter. They simply do. Especially the 1st/2nd/3rd round variety. Else, why would so many non-playoff teams' GMs all be doing the same thing?

Look, right now there are 11 NHL teams who are obviously out of the playoff picture: Ottawa, Toronto, Buffalo, Philadelphia, NJ, Columbus, Carolina, Dallas, Colorado, Arizona, Edmonton. Of those 11 teams, 9 of them had defenseman UFAs-to-be, 10 of them had either defenseman or forward UFAs-to-be (interestingly, Ottawa has no important UFAs coming up this offseason).

Of those 9 teams with UFA-to-be defensemen, how many didn't move their UFA-to-be defenseman at the deadline? One. Us. (And really, Dallas moved their UFA-to-be defenseman back in November, when they traded Gonchar to Montreal, so the number could really be 10).

Of those 10 non-playoff teams with UFA-to-be players at any position, how many didn't move their UFAs-to-be at the deadline? One. Us.

We are the only obvious non-playoff team that had UFAs, and didn't move any. The. Only. One. Hell, Calgary has a real shot at the playoffs (but are still obviously in rebuilding mode), and they moved a UFA-to-be.

Why are we the only team that doesn't do it?


Hint: We are/were also the only team that played man-to-man defense.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Yeah, but I'm not expecting it to work out. And if ROR gets put on the market I can't see Murray not making something around ROR and Zadorov happen. Zads would probably start the season on the third pairing with Holden or Stuart, with the other playing with Barrie until Zads is ready to take that job. If I'm wrong and we get to keep ROR, then that changes a lot, but I wouldn't be planning around that scenario coming to pass.

All in all I just think there's too much to do for us not to end up with one of Stuart or Holden starting the season with Barrie, which is far from ideal, but wouldn't be the end of the world if we find EJ a legit partner and have a young kid who'll soon be a top 4 guy on the third pairing.

Hedja will be Barrie's or EJ's partner. We didn't keep him around just to tell him goodbye in the offseason. Don't count on more than 1 new addition from outside the organization, wether that's a FA or a trade.

New - EJ
Hedja - Barrie
Holden/Bigras - Stuart

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Of those 10 non-playoff teams with UFA-to-be players at any position, how many didn't move their UFAs-to-be at the deadline? One. Us.

Wrong-O! Pretty sure Meszaros is still sucking it up in Buffalo on a one year deal.

 

[Alex Jones]

I obviously don't know if there is some sort of verbal agreement in place with Hejda with regards to next season, but without that not moving him was dumb

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Of those 10 non-playoff teams with UFA-to-be players at any position, how many didn't move their UFAs-to-be at the deadline? One. Us.

That's just plain incorrect. Dallas didn't move Horcoff. Buffalo didn't move some of their guys. Arizona couldn't move Erat (granted, NTC). New Jersey didn't move a bunch of their guys.

I think they should have moved Hejda, but other teams did the same.

Hint: We are/were also the only team that played man-to-man defense.

I think there's a few teams in the league that do, like Detroit.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

That's just plain incorrect. Dallas didn't move Horcoff. Buffalo didn't move some of their guys. Arizona couldn't move Erat (granted, NTC). New Jersey didn't move a bunch of their guys.

I think they should have moved Hejda, but other teams did the same.

TAKE YOUR DIRTY FACTS AND GET OUT OF HERE!

 

[cgf]

Hedja will be Barrie's or EJ's partner. We didn't keep him around just to tell him goodbye in the offseason. Don't count on more than 1 new addition from outside the organization, wether that's a FA or a trade.

New - EJ
Hedja - Barrie
Holden/Bigras - Stuart

Yeah that won't happen if ROR doesn't sign an extension leaving them to resolve the EJ partner question through UFA. We're going after a dman in the ROR trade and are going to get someone with a ton of talent, but we won't get someone who is ready to play with EJ yet, at least without it being a much older guy like Hamhuis. So our bottom 4 to start next season will almost certainly be some iteration of:

RORreturn/Holden/Stuart - Barrie
RORreturn/Holden - Stuart/Holden/Redmond

Leaving the spot next to EJ unresolved. If we want to replace Hejda on the top pairing it will have to come through a FA like Martin, with the ROR trade a completely different and disconnected long term play.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Yeah that won't happen if ROR doesn't sign an extension leaving them to resolve the EJ partner question through UFA. We're going after a dman in the ROR trade and are going to get someone with a ton of talent, but we won't get someone who is ready to play with EJ yet, at least without it being a much older guy like Hamhuis. So our bottom 4 to start next season will almost certainly be some iteration of:

RORreturn/Holden/Stuart - Barrie
RORreturn/Holden - Stuart/Holden/Redmond

Leaving the spot next to EJ unresolved. If we want to replace Hejda on the top pairing it will have to come through a FA like Martin, with the ROR trade a completely different and disconnected long term play.

Like i said, Hedja will be Barrie OR EJs partner. If the new guy, wether that's through FA or a trade, isn't ready, as you suggest, for top pair then Hedja will be on the top pair again (sigh).

I doubt they are handcuffing themselves into just looking at Dmen if they need to trade RoR. It will depend on how FA goes. If we can sign that top4 Dman then the bigger hole needing to be filled will be in the top6 left by RoR. In which case we should look to trade him for a forward.