In Hindsight: Are you still on board with the rebuild if you had known where we would be at today?

[Sabre the Win]

Next season might be the first time going into a season where I have little to no hope, my expectations are shot at anything more than last place again. The Sabres are at rock bottom (literally). In my 30 years of Sabres I think this might have been the most depressing season I have been apart of since we were actually trying to win and we couldn't even build off of last season; we regressed horribly and I ask myself, was it really Bylsma's fault? or were we just looking for someone to blame and he was the whipping boy that season. Yes he had his warts but his system for the little talent we had actually worked to some degree; hate him or not.

The true problem with this team the last two years has always been a lack of talent at pretty much every position yet we single out certain people rather than the entire dynamic of the team.

I think it's obvious that the Sabres major problem is that we need to get more talent and we need to start winning. I don't think quick drastic moves is going to help like what Murray tried to do nor do I think trading any of the young core is going to help because we need them and moving them would just be a lateral move, moving out one area of strength to cover an area of weakness is just going to make that area of strength now weak and essentially we would just be chasing our own tail.

Where the lack of talent stems from is the true scorched earth rebuild. We literally got rid of any capable NHLer and filled the holes with career AHLers or players not in either league anymore to tank and we are only a few years removed from that. Now we are desperate to start winning and we just don't have the talent because of our rebuild methods

So in saying that....

Did management go about it the best way? and in hindsight would you still support a rebuild knowing where we are now? or would you suffer as a bubble team and hope our scouting hits on players as we slowly infuse talent into the lineup while our players of the past slowly burned out (Vanek, Pommers, Miller, Stafford, Myers) but were there as roll models and served as serviceable spot holders and provided some meaningful and fun wild card hockey?

(I am not adding a poll as I would like to actually see people's thoughts on this)

Click to read more...

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Yes. This organization had zero avenues of adding a Jack Eichel level player past blind luck.

Crafting a relatively competitive team was impossible with the Vanek/Poms/Miller expiring contracts.

 

[1972]

They player we tanked for is 21 years old, we are picking top 4 this year. This rebuild isn’t a bust, the timeframe just hasn’t gone as anyone would have thought.

 

[flashsabre]

Yes. This team didn't draft well enough to compete long term as it was constructed and if you are not going to compete you might as well be awful and hope you get the core game changing pieces to build a winner from. Being St. Louis or Minnesota who get in every year but know are never going to get to the promise land is death.

 

[Jim Bob]

Given the lack of good young players coming into the system at the time, I don't really know what the other options were realistically.

That team wasn't close to being a playoff team with all the UFAs.

At least they have Eichel to build around now.

If they had drafted Strome or Zacha in '15 instead....

 

[Gabrielor]

Yes. I haven’t forgotten the Lucic hit and subsequent collapse.

 

[old kummelweck]

The other way wasn't working either. Without the rebuild, you have Montreal without Price, you have the MN wild, you have the coyotes. This narrative that the losing is institutionalized is silly. The story is that the sabres made a bad GM choice after Regeir, who mismanaged assets to try and win sooner, that wasn't always the best evaluator of pro talent.

 

[Aladyyn]

Should have started the rebuild in 2007, we might have been good by now.

 

[jBuds]

In the sickest of admissions... I enjoyed the tank.

Or had fun with it. Whatever the proper verbiage is, that’s what I had.

We knew what the goal was, we had an idea as to what the next logical steps were to be...I actually enjoyed the stretch run with the Coyotes, probably based mostly on the hope I thought it promised us (by around this time...ish...)

But this last year? This was the worst I’ve ever felt regarding the sport I love so dearly. I’ve been on and coached some teams under twisted circumstances, and we’ve seen our share of tough stretches with the Sabres. But this one will stick with me for the rest of my life.

It’s like I was punished for taking some joy out of the intentionaTank

I guess my answer is “yes”

 

[debaser66]

I am happy with Eichel.
A type of player that hasnt
Been on this team for decades.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Yes. I haven’t forgotten the Lucic hit and subsequent collapse.

Man that really just was amazing to watch if you weren't a sabres fan

 

[CatsforReinhart]

I would be happy with the rebuild if Murray didn't get hired. I think we would be better off if Botts was hired the first time around.

Patience would have been the key.

 

[1972]

I’m not even from Buffalo, but for the sake of that community this team needs a respectable hockey team again. I couldn’t imagine the thrill of even clinching the final wild card spot at this point. Let’s hope Botterill can get creative this offseason, because under no circumstances can next year be a repeat of this year.

 

[OkimLom]

Next season might be the first time going into a season where I have little to no hope, my expectations are shot at anything more than last place again. The Sabres are at rock bottom (literally). In my 30 years of Sabres I think this might have been the most depressing season I have been apart of since we were actually trying to win and we couldn't even build off of last season; we regressed horribly and I ask myself, was it really Bylsma's fault? or were we just looking for someone to blame and he was the whipping boy that season. Yes he had his warts but his system for the little talent we had actually worked to some degree; hate him or not.

The true problem with this team the last two years has always been a lack of talent at pretty much every position yet we single out certain people rather than the entire dynamic of the team.

I think it's obvious that the Sabres major problem is that we need to get more talent and we need to start winning. I don't think quick drastic moves is going to help like what Murray tried to do nor do I think trading any of the young core is going to help because we need them and moving them would just be a lateral move, moving out one area of strength to cover an area of weakness is just going to make that area of strength now weak and essentially we would just be chasing our own tail.

Where the lack of talent stems from is the true scorched earth rebuild. We literally got rid of any capable NHLer and filled the holes with career AHLers or players not in either league anymore to tank and we are only a few years removed from that. Now we are desperate to start winning and we just don't have the talent because of our rebuild methods

So in saying that....

Did management go about it the best way? and in hindsight would you still support a rebuild knowing where we are now? or would you suffer as a bubble team and hope our scouting hits on players as we slowly infuse talent into the lineup while our players of the past slowly burned out (Vanek, Pommers, Miller, Stafford, Myers) but were there as roll models and served as serviceable spot holders and provided some meaningful and fun wild card hockey?

(I am not adding a poll as I would like to actually see people's thoughts on this)

Absolutely.

was it really Bylsma's fault? or were we just looking for someone to blame and he was the whipping boy that season. Yes he had his warts but his system for the little talent we had actually worked to some degree; hate him or not.

Not his fault, but he sure didn't do anything to rectify any part of what was wrong with this team, and it was painfully obvious he didn't WANT to rectify what was going on.

The true problem with this team the last two years has always been a lack of talent at pretty much every position yet we single out certain people rather than the entire dynamic of the team

Disagree completely. The true problem with this team is lack of structure of accountability, the ineptness of choices from ownership, management, and the coaching staff. Talent and improving the talent is pretty easy to deal with, as it happens naturally with the development of prospects taking spots from aging vets, and development of prospects means more quality assets to use in trades, along with free agency.

Right now, it's a bad time for being Sabres fan for prospects because a bulk of the prospects that are supposed to fill our cupboards are JUST entering the phase which could directly impact the quality of assets we have. The 2013 draft we're seeing some signs with Baptiste, Bailey start to shape their professional careers. The 2014 draft wasn't fruitful right away though Olofsson is an intriguing piece. But we're seeing guys like Guhle and Borgen entering into key parts of their career from the 2015 draft, and next season you'll may see guys like Fitzgerald, Pu, maybe Hagel start filling up Rochester from the 2016 draft. What really gets us down is that there was NOTHING in our pipeline. Guys like Armia, and Mcnabb and a collection of no name prospects were NOTHING when the rebuild started. Building up the stable was going to take a while, and seeing as you might hit on 3-4 prospects per draft, it was going to take a while. The talent level would get there, just takes patience.

I think it's obvious that the Sabres major problem is that we need to get more talent and we need to start winning. I don't think quick drastic moves is going to help like what Murray tried to do nor do I think trading any of the young core is going to help because we need them and moving them would just be a lateral move, moving out one area of strength to cover an area of weakness is just going to make that area of strength now weak and essentially we would just be chasing our own tail.

For what our holes were on the main roster, plus the state of the prospect pool(as I mentioned earlier) Murray NEEDED to make quick moves in order to fill important roles (#1 Center until Jack is ready, then #2 center, Top 6 scoring, Top 4 Defenseman, veterans for leadership), as the players we had on the main roster wasn't cutting it. Now, some of the moves didn't pay off for immediate results for wins, but they somewhat did their job for insulating roles until younger prospects/players could've been ready to take their spots.

At the same time we put 4 coaches in place which have ranged from "over there head" in EVERY aspect(Ron Rolston) to "high work ethic, but that's it"(Nolan). As much as we want to complain about the roster talent level, our coaching talent level has been much much worse than anything we can put on the ice. It's been horrendous, and we're in for another year of a coach STILL learning the ropes(Housley).

Did management go about it the best way? and in hindsight would you still support a rebuild knowing where we are now? or would you suffer as a bubble team and hope our scouting hits on players as we slowly infuse talent into the lineup while our players of the past slowly burned out (Vanek, Pommers, Miller, Stafford, Myers) but were there as roll models and served as serviceable spot holders and provided some meaningful and fun wild card hockey?

I think they did. Of course there are a few tweaks that I would do as looking at the rebuild with hindsight so much easier to criticize, but the act of the rebuild was much needed and I wouldn't change the initial mindset of Murray for rebuilding(I am of the belief the timeline and direction of the rebuild changed when Bylsma came on board and tried to get players that fit his "dump and chase" model after "attempting" to coach guys that would play a more possession based game after one season).

 

[Chainshot]

Yeah, just the execution from ownership lagged and they have not done this process well.

 

[1972]

Should have started the rebuild in 2007, we might have been good by now.

Should have let Edmonton do our rebuild for us...

 

[JLewyB]

I don’t think we had a choice. Darcy got out in front and made it look like a choice but I think we were going to be bad even if we kept everyone.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Tanking is easy and was the right call. Letting owners oversee the rebuild with minimal hockey knowledge was not. Leino should have been enough evidence that they needed a strong hockey mind guiding the ship.

 

[sufferer]

The choice was easy between watching a team lead by Hodgson and Grigorenko vs securing an elite talent in McEichel. I could do without the crippling trades, though.

 

[sincerity0]

Yes. If only for the sole fact that elite talent is often found at the very top of the draft, and similar to the NBA, is often concentrated in the first two picks.

From the looks of it, there is a strong possibility that Eichel, Reinhart, and Mittelstadt are elite players, with the possibility of Nylander/Top-4 pick joining them.

We all expected a better team, and to be quite frank, this sucks. At the end of the day, not having elite talent will always be the biggest obstacle of any team trying to be a contender over a 5+ year period. The Sabres have some great to excellent level players, just finish building the team...

 

[brian_griffin]

Blending what many have said, my (our collective?) prescription for curing the ills:

First 3 prescriptions are intended to remove the tolerance for losing.
1. Attitude. (you don't buy in, you sit. "All ERod all the time.")
2. Effort. (training, practice, games, line changes)
3. Accountability. (you don't embrace #1 and #2, and perform commensurately on the ice, then you own it, and you sit)

I believe the first three mean Housley needs to go. I can't see him instilling those 3, and I can't see a bottoms-up change from the players being leveraged adequately by Housley.

Next 3 prescriptions:
4. Fix the leadership at the player level.
5. Competition for all roster spots.
6. Eichel, ROR, Risto, Reinhart need to be collectively part of the solution or be shipped out. "To whom much is given, from him much is required."

Final 4 prescriptions fix the on-ice product:
7. Get a 3rd-line center, preferably a vet, not Mittelstadt, for at least the next year.
8. Get 2 middle-4 d-men who are significant upgrades on everyone except #6,#55.
9. Upgrade the bottom 6 to NHL caliber.
10. Don't overpay in goal.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

The rebuild had to happen no matter what. I just wish a competent front office had hired the right people from the start, and a metric ton of assets hadn't been flung out like cash at a strip club in a rap video...for the wrong friggin players. Now we're forced to start over on a two-year delay, and do it with even less to work with. Thanks Tim Murray!!

 

[Chainshot]

The rebuild had to happen no matter what. I just wish a competent front office had hired the right people from the start, and a metric ton of assets hadn't been flung out like cash at a strip club in a rap video...for the wrong friggin players. Now we're forced to start over on a two-year delay, and do it with even less to work with. Thanks Tim Murray!!

Don't forget to thank Patty LaFontaine and Terry Pegula. Patty, with no experience at hiring GM's for a rebuild, hired Tim. Pegula both left Regier in place too long and didn't fill any sort of hockey ops position with anyone who could actually hire the right person for the job. It goes to the top.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Yeah that's what I meant with "front office", I just didn't want to re-live all that drama by typing it all out. My therapist says to keep my rants brief until the pills start to take effect!

 

[tsujimoto74]

What other choice was there? The core we had, which clearly wasn't good enough to win anything with, was aging and reaching UFA. We didn't have young talent to even replace them, much less improve on them. Buffalo was headed to the bottom whether the org embraced it or not.