Proposal: Improving the Penguins defense (Trouba and Goligoski)

[Toby Flenderson]

Trouba is better than Hamilton and Hamonic.

And when Hamilton got traded, most people thought Boston got bent over.

Hamonic sure, but I think Hamilton in Boston is almost identical to Trouba in Winni.

Boston got the best deal the market would give them. If there was a better offer I’m sure they would have taken it. Getting “bent over” in these types of scenarios is almost a sure thing. I put it in quotations because I don’t think the jets get bent over at all in this trade.

And, Hamilton didn’t demand a specific region. Trouba wants exclusively the East, I think that hampers his value a little.

A top 4 RHD, good prospect, and a mid 1st is pretty damn good value for a guy like trouba in this situation.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Actually, why in the hell are the Coyotes making that other deal?

Because Kessel to AZ makes a ton of sense for both sides.

And,

Kessel=14th OA and Merkely

Maatta=Goligoski

 

[Hunter368]

Hamonic sure, but I think Hamilton in Boston is almost identical to Trouba in Winni.

Boston got the best deal the market would give them. If there was a better offer I’m sure they would have taken it. Getting “bent over” in these types of scenarios is almost a sure thing. I put it in quotations because I don’t think the jets get bent over at all in this trade.

And, Hamilton didn’t demand a specific region. Trouba wants exclusively the East, I think that hampers his value a little.

A top 4 RHD, good prospect, and a mid 1st is pretty damn good value for a guy like trouba in this situation.

Just clarifying couple points:

- using DH trade as an example when everyone stated then B's got screwed in that deal is using an outliner trade.......that's similar to Jets fan trying to use the Hall trade as an example.....so does that mean Trouba returns Hall+ type of player? So using DH trade isn't valid anymore then the Hall trade is.

- Trouba doesn't want to play "exclusively" in the east? .Jets would want to trade him east if traded. Jets will get most value from any team who agrees to a trade/sign deal (this may be an eastern team). If there isn't a trade/sign deal to be had it makes more sense to keep him one more year. So if you can't sign him long term or he refuses to sign long term you wouldn't even be considered an option.

I'm very happy keeping him one more year then letting him walk if no trade/sign deal can be found. It's counter productive and non logical to give a top pairing D away. Now your going to ask what would I want for him, no clue TBH......I just know what's not logical. PS: My comments here are general comments not specifically aimed at OP.

 

[Flair Hay]

1st + Schultz + 2nd is actually a pretty fair offer. Jets might want the the Pens 2nd rounder instead of a prospect they picked. But overall, the value seems bang on.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Why in the world would Trouba accept $7 million per long term? He's easily going to get $6.5 million on a one year deal in salary arbitration after his 50 point season. No way he's signing for any thing less then 7 x 7.5 from any team.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Why in the world would Trouba accept $7 million per long term? He's easily going to get $6.5 million on a one year deal in salary arbitration after his 50 point season. No way he's signing for any thing less then 7 x 7.5 from any team.

I said roughly. I have no idea what his demands are but 7m seemed fair for a defenseman of his caliber.

Also why are you acting like 7m and 7.5m are so far apart haha

 

[Toby Flenderson]

1st + Schultz + 2nd is actually a pretty fair offer. Jets might want the the Pens 2nd rounder instead of a prospect they picked. But overall, the value seems bang on.

Pitt doesn’t have a 2nd this year that’s why Hallander is included.

2nd round center from a year ago

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Just clarifying couple points:

- using DH trade as an example when everyone stated then B's got screwed in that deal is using an outliner trade.......that's similar to Jets fan trying to use the Hall trade as an example.....so does that mean Trouba returns Hall+ type of player? So using DH trade isn't valid anymore then the Hall trade is.

- Trouba doesn't want to play "exclusively" in the east? .Jets would want to trade him east if traded. Jets will get most value from any team who agrees to a trade/sign deal (this may be an eastern team). If there isn't a trade/sign deal to be had it makes more sense to keep him one more year. So if you can't sign him long term or he refuses to sign long term you wouldn't even be considered an option.

I'm very happy keeping him one more year then letting him walk if no trade/sign deal can be found. It's counter productive and non logical to give a top pairing D away. Now your going to ask what would I want for him, no clue TBH......I just know what's not logical. PS: My comments here are general comments not specifically aimed at OP.

I’m only using Hamilton as an example because his case is very similar to Trouba.

Not wanting to play for his current team, contract demands, age, skill, position, etc.

If I’m off in value I apologize, that trade just seemed like a logical starting point.

 

[Riptide]

Except Schultz is a one year rental. Jets will get better than that easily or keep the vastly superior player in Trouba.

Wouldn't bother me in the least. But then he likely walks for free and Winnipeg has nothing to show for it. You get someone like Schultz (him or any other pending FA top 4D) and at least you have a replacement for him along with some futures, so that if Schultz walks, you still didn't end up with nothing.

Honestly, it wouldn't really matter to me either way. I think Trouba is going to get overpaid and isn't nearly as good as most hype him up to be. I also do not think there's a chance in hell that he signs an affordable multi year deal in Winnipeg.

 

[Snowman]

Wouldn't bother me in the least. But then he likely walks for free and Winnipeg has nothing to show for it. You get someone like Schultz (him or any other pending FA top 4D) and at least you have a replacement for him along with some futures, so that if Schultz walks, you still didn't end up with nothing.

Honestly, it wouldn't really matter to me either way. I think Trouba is going to get overpaid and isn't nearly as good as most hype him up to be. I also do not think there's a chance in hell that he signs an affordable multi year deal in Winnipeg.

The Jets will just keep him as an own rental if it comes to offers like this. The Jets would easily get this much for Trouba as a pure rental. So, if it is only terrible offers like this one the Jets are better off keeping Trouba for one more Cup run and letting him walk as a UFA.

 

[Hunter368]

I’m only using Hamilton as an example because his case is very similar to Trouba.

Not wanting to play for his current team, contract demands, age, skill, position, etc.

If I’m off in value I apologize, that trade just seemed like a logical starting point.

As I stated my comments weren't aimed at your OP, just saying I would be careful referencing one bad trade to justify another offer. Like I said I have no clue what I would want for Trouba, I'm just saying rental type of offers aren't logical bc the Jets would decline them all just to keep him one more year on a cheap deal. No need to apologize.

Rental returns at TDL for young top pairing D, likely in range of: late 1st Rd pick, 2nd pick and C level prospect fairly easy IMO. These types of offers wouldn't/shouldn't get Trouba bc this is exactly what it would cost Chevy to replace Trouba for a guy with no term. So all offers less then that should automatically be declined quickly considering Trouba has one year term.....one year term would return more.........then if there was a trade/sign offer (which benefits everyone especially Trouba) that would return even more still.

 

[Alikhan Alizada]

Why is that not enough for trouba?

Hamilton got 14th OA and 2 2nds.

Trouba for 14th OA, Hallander, and Schultz isn’t enough? Schultz is worth at least a late 1st on his own.

And I think 7m is fair

Loĺll no way is he getting 7 and hamilton did get that and it was a horrible trade from BOS I think everyone knows that also Hamonic got a 1st and 2 2nds and Schultz isnt worth a 1st.

 

[KIRK]

Because Kessel to AZ makes a ton of sense for both sides.

And,

Kessel=14th OA and Merkely

Maatta=Goligoski

Meanwhile, on Earth 1.0 . . .

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Loĺll no way is he getting 7 and hamilton did get that and it was a horrible trade from BOS I think everyone knows that also Hamonic got a 1st and 2 2nds and Schultz isnt worth a 1st.

How is Schultz not worth a late 1st?

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Meanwhile, on Earth 1.0 . . .

Really... What’s Kessel worth in this Earth 1.0 of yours?

A 31 year old ppg winger that would instantly be your highest scoring forward and make your pp better, tell me how that’s not worth a 1st and Merkely, who btw hasn’t even cracked an NHL roster yet.

And a 24 year old making 4m is just so much less valuable than a 33 year old making over 5m? Yikes, Maatta has one bad year out of 6 and now he’s suddenly a cap dump haha

 

[Adam da bomb]

How is Schultz not worth a late 1st?

Is Schultz on your top pairing?

 

[TheKingPin]

I’ll do you one better. The flyers get Trouba and use him to eliminate the pens every year until it’s tank time again.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Is Schultz on your top pairing?

No because we have Letang haha what a terrible attempt at diminishing Schultz

When Letang is out, Schultz fills in the top PPQB spot and our power play goes on without skipping a beat. He’s an excellent 2nd pair guy that is capable of running the power play very well. He’s absolutely worth a pick in the 24-31 range.

2nd pair D and 2nd line forwards get dealt for 1st’s all the time, by the way. And saying Schultz isn’t worth a 1st because he plays 2nd pair behind Letang makes literally no sense at all. That’s like saying Ellis isn’t worth a 1st because he plays 2nd to Subban... or Parakyo isn’t worth a 1st because he plays 2nd to Pietrangelo... the list goes on of talented 2nd pairing D

 

[Adam da bomb]

No because we have Letang haha what a terrible attempt at diminishing Schultz

When Letang is out, Schultz fills in the top PPQB spot and our power play goes on without skipping a beat. He’s an excellent 2nd pair guy that is capable of running the power play very well. He’s absolutely worth a pick in the 24-31 range.

2nd pair D and 2nd line forwards get dealt for 1st’s all the time, by the way. And saying Schultz isn’t worth a 1st because he plays 2nd pair behind Letang makes literally no sense at all. That’s like saying Ellis isn’t worth a 1st because he plays 2nd to Subban... or Parakyo isn’t worth a 1st because he plays 2nd to Pietrangelo... the list goes on of talented 2nd pairing D

Woo relax it was a simple question, no need to attack anyone. I don't know your team as well as you think everyone should.

 

[cspera777]

You're not getting Trouba with that. NOR are you getting him at 7mil or else the Jets would've locked him up at that number.

Trouba might be the most overrated player in HF Boards History. Personally I'd rather just keep Shultz, I believe he is equal to Trouba or at worst just a hair behind him.

 

[elitepete]

Hamonic sure, but I think Hamilton in Boston is almost identical to Trouba in Winni.

Boston got the best deal the market would give them. If there was a better offer I’m sure they would have taken it. Getting “bent over” in these types of scenarios is almost a sure thing. I put it in quotations because I don’t think the jets get bent over at all in this trade.

And, Hamilton didn’t demand a specific region. Trouba wants exclusively the East, I think that hampers his value a little.

A top 4 RHD, good prospect, and a mid 1st is pretty damn good value for a guy like trouba in this situation.

There were gms that said at the time that they didn’t even know Hamilton was available, so no, they didn’t get the best deal at the time based on the market.

 

[Whileee]

Not really, OP was on track using Hamilton as a comparison. 1st + 2nds...thats less than a 1st, 2nd round player, and Schultz. Apples to apples, Schultz is worth a lot more than a 2nd.

Travis Hamonic was trade for a 1st and 2 2nds as well. Schultz has comparable value to both. I think thats too much going to Winnipeg, especially for a guy that may not want to sign there.

I do the first one. Not entirely sure I do the 2nd. Would have to play with it some.

Trouba >> Hamonic.

2015 1st round >>> 2019 1st round. The 2015 first round was insanely good. That 2015 1st would be equivalent to at least a top-10 pick this year in terms of talent. Some players picked after the #15 in 2015... Barzal, Connor, Chabot, Boeser, Konecny, White, Carlo, Aho...

 

[Whileee]

Trouba might be the most overrated player in HF Boards History. Personally I'd rather just keep Shultz, I believe he is equal to Trouba or at worst just a hair behind him.

Schultz was a catastrophe last season. Buyer beware...

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Trouba >> Hamonic.

2015 1st round >>> 2019 1st round. The 2015 first round was insanely good. That 2015 1st would be equivalent to at least a top-10 pick this year in terms of talent. Some players picked after the #15 in 2015... Barzal, Connor, Chabot, Boeser, Konecny, White, Carlo, Aho...

Okay but you have no idea how well the guys being drafted after #15 in this draft will turn out. Those guys were homeruns obviously, but that happens all the time, there are tons of good players in the NHL that were drafted after 15OA.

A little premature to say that the 2019 draft class isn’t going to be good. In fact, most reports are saying this is a pretty strong draft.

 

[rt]

Because Kessel to AZ makes a ton of sense for both sides.

And,

Kessel=14th OA and Merkely

Maatta=Goligoski

Arizona’s cash flow issues are a roadblock here. If this is the deal you want, you’d have to eat Kevin Connauton and send him to the minors.

That would save Arizona 1.5m in actual cash (making your deal a net increase of 2.2m) but would cost Pittsburgh less then 500k in cap space once Connauton has been buried. Still, a savings of 4.5m in cap for the Penguins.

That MIGHT be doable from a budget perspective. I still think it’s a much more fair deal without Merkley. I think the improvement from Maatta to Goligoski more than makes up the difference in value on the 14th for Kessel. So much so that the very minor negative value addition of KConn rounds it out nicely.

14+Goligoski+KConn(buried) for Kessel+Maatta is fair to me.