Speculation: iMac: Canucks will be "aggressive" on July 1st with regards to second-tier FAs

[F A N]

Hmm, the last "mid-tier" FA was Eriksson. Who is the next aging former first liner destined to make 6-8 million on the canucks fourth line in a few years?

It's funny that many consider Eriksson to have been a "mid-tier" FA. I suppose if every year you have a player like Tavares and Panarin hitting the market then ya guys like Eriksson belong to that mid-tier group. Generally speaking, I consider top line wingers and top pairing Dmen top tier UFAs.

 

[tantalum]

We have no real choice, there was word that EP went to Benning and asked him to get a better LW. DO we trade for it or try FA? Maybe we find a deal for Trouba instead of Myers for free. There are options, but Frank will have the mandate that he wants to make playoffs this year. Any GM in Benning's shoes would do what they can to get there, or risk getting fired.

One thing that Nonis did that was the correct thing to do and I'm very glad he did: He protected the future of the organization even though he was likely to lose his job. And he did lose his job. So no not every GM would do that. And I'm sure you'll find many other GMs that in history have done the same thing. It can even be argued that Gillis was doing the same thing. He wasn't looking for "now" pieces when dealing goaltenders. He was looking for future pieces. That may have cost him his job as well because clearly ownership was still in "now" mode.

And really just because you go out and sign a free agent doesn't mean you are actually making the team better. Myers, IMO, doesn't really make the team better. Nor does Dzingel. They don't move the needle.

A guy like Hayes I think can in the right situation. I think Ferland can make the team better as well. But you do have to factor in the contract term and cost as well because you start adding in too many long term, big money deals now you are going to get yourself into a cap crunch BEFORE you are an actual contender as that pretty much kills your chance to contend. It might get you a playoff team but that's it.

I'm not saying don't add something in free agency. I think you go hard after the two guys they've apparently already decided to ignore as they are core players and will be for several years. I think you look for reasonable deals on second tier guys. I don't think you get into a bidding war over the second tier guys. I think you look very hard at the bargain bin of free agency to build depth and cut some salary in the bottom 6. I don't think you move picks or youth unless you are getting GOOD youth and picks back (i.e. not Vey or Pouliot or Pedan or Baertschi or Granlund or Leivo or....). I do think you try as hard as you can to move Eriksson and Sutter cap hits and use the cap space you have for a year or two to help out some cap crunched teams and build organizational depth.

IMO, you do those things and they will have a better team now and in the future. Going hard after a Tyler Myers or Dzingel doesn't do either of those things. You might get a temporary blip up but it won't last and is going to cost you on the other end. They have to be very careful they aren't sending out picks, prospects, young roster player and aren't tying themselves into long term big money deals for complimentary players.

The problem, of course, is that this management group isn't actually competent to do any of those things. So I fully expect stupid contracts to a D-man or two and a winger. Contracts that limit future flexibility and contracts that the players don't have the ability to live up to. They'll trade the wasted cap space being used on eriksson and Sutter for new wasted cap space.

It's funny that many consider Eriksson to have been a "mid-tier" FA. I suppose if every year you have a player like Tavares and Panarin hitting the market then ya guys like Eriksson belong to that mid-tier group. Generally speaking, I consider top line wingers and top pairing Dmen top tier UFAs.

He had a good contract year but his prior three years were at a sub-50 point pace. That coupled with being over 30 years old and his injury history he was the definition of the second tier.

I think his performance clearly indicates what tier he really belonged in.....

Myers isn't a top pairing D-man. His icetime was 4th on the Jets blueline in the regular season and cut back to 5th in the playoffs. His numbers are poor.

 

[MS]

It's funny that many consider Eriksson to have been a "mid-tier" FA. I suppose if every year you have a player like Tavares and Panarin hitting the market then ya guys like Eriksson belong to that mid-tier group. Generally speaking, I consider top line wingers and top pairing Dmen top tier UFAs.

Eriksson was absolutely a mid-tier UFA. 2nd liner who had 3 straight sub-50 point seasons and was talked about as a cap dump before having a fluke year carried by Bergeron and Marchand.

Many of us here explained this in detail at the time.

 

[I in the Eye]

One of the things that irks me about this regime is the pseudo-profound BS that they use. They peddle statements, like "aggressive in the mid-tier market", that sound profound but really don't have a specific, clear meaning. At first glance, it looks profound, but when you really consider the meaning, what exactly is "mid-tier" player? Obviously, "mid-tier" is below "high-tier", and above "low-tier"... but none of it means anything concrete. Ask any random 5 hockey people what a "mid-tier" player means to them, and they give up to 5 different definitions and identifications of possible players.

The first follow up question to "aggressive in the mid-tier market" should be, "how do you define mid-tier player"... "how do you identify and assess players to place into each tier grouping?... "What are the similarities and differences between a 'mid-tier player' and a 'prototypical Brian Burke-type forward'?"

This regime is good at selling bullshit.

 

[Hit the post]

Eriksson was absolutely a mid-tier UFA. 2nd liner who had 3 straight sub-50 point seasons and was talked about as a cap dump before having a fluke year carried by Bergeron and Marchand.

Many of us here explained this in detail at the time.

Hilarious thing was Louis was his plan B after losing his secret love Lucic.

 

[4Twenty]

One of the things that irks me about this regime is the pseudo-profound BS that they use. They peddle statements, like "aggressive in the mid-tier market", that sound profound but really don't have a specific, clear meaning. At first glance, it looks profound, but when you really consider the meaning, what exactly is "mid-tier" player? Obviously, "mid-tier" is below "high-tier", and above "low-tier"... but none of it means anything concrete. Ask any random 5 hockey people what a "mid-tier" player means to them, and they give up to 5 different definitions and identifications of possible players.

The first follow up question to "aggressive in the mid-tier market" should be, "how do you define mid-tier player"... "how do you identify and assess players to place into each tier grouping?... "What are the similarities and differences between a 'mid-tier player' and a 'prototypical Brian Burke-type forward'?"

This regime is good at selling bull****.

My interpretation: we know the really good guys aren't going to want to come here, so we're going to offer the biggest contracts with the most term to middle 6 guys.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

One thing that Nonis did that was the correct thing to do and I'm very glad he did: He protected the future of the organization even though he was likely to lose his job. And he did lose his job. So no not every GM would do that. And I'm sure you'll find many other GMs that in history have done the same thing. It can even be argued that Gillis was doing the same thing. He wasn't looking for "now" pieces when dealing goaltenders. He was looking for future pieces. That may have cost him his job as well because clearly ownership was still in "now" mode.

And really just because you go out and sign a free agent doesn't mean you are actually making the team better. Myers, IMO, doesn't really make the team better. Nor does Dzingel. They don't move the needle.

A guy like Hayes I think can in the right situation. I think Ferland can make the team better as well. But you do have to factor in the contract term and cost as well because you start adding in too many long term, big money deals now you are going to get yourself into a cap crunch BEFORE you are an actual contender as that pretty much kills your chance to contend. It might get you a playoff team but that's it.

I'm not saying don't add something in free agency. I think you go hard after the two guys they've apparently already decided to ignore as they are core players and will be for several years. I think you look for reasonable deals on second tier guys. I don't think you get into a bidding war over the second tier guys. I think you look very hard at the bargain bin of free agency to build depth and cut some salary in the bottom 6. I don't think you move picks or youth unless you are getting GOOD youth and picks back (i.e. not Vey or Pouliot or Pedan or Baertschi or Granlund or Leivo or....). I do think you try as hard as you can to move Eriksson and Sutter cap hits and use the cap space you have for a year or two to help out some cap crunched teams and build organizational depth.

IMO, you do those things and they will have a better team now and in the future. Going hard after a Tyler Myers or Dzingel doesn't do either of those things. You might get a temporary blip up but it won't last and is going to cost you on the other end. They have to be very careful they aren't sending out picks, prospects, young roster player and aren't tying themselves into long term big money deals for complimentary players.

The problem, of course, is that this management group isn't actually competent to do any of those things. So I fully expect stupid contracts to a D-man or two and a winger. Contracts that limit future flexibility and contracts that the players don't have the ability to live up to. They'll trade the wasted cap space being used on eriksson and Sutter for new wasted cap space.



He had a good contract year but his prior three years were at a sub-50 point pace. That coupled with being over 30 years old and his injury history he was the definition of the second tier.

I think his performance clearly indicates what tier he really belonged in.....

Myers isn't a top pairing D-man. His icetime was 4th on the Jets blueline in the regular season and cut back to 5th in the playoffs. His numbers are poor.

If Baerschi could play 82 games a season without getting a concussion, I doubt we need that winger for EP. I could see him putting up 50-60 points on that line while Boeser and EP are putting up 70+. Leivo was an excellent trade, but I think he is expendable. I'd rather have JV on our 3rd line and neither JV or Leivo are 2nd line players. I also think we will likely grab a D with our pick. Soderstrom is the likely, Seider I think will rise up some draft boards, but his shoulder injury will likely see him fall(I would move up from our 2nd for him in a heart beat). I think the team is further along than most people, with Bo being an excellent 2c and EP/Boeser being 1st line talents. If we got some scoring help on the back end and improved our top 6, we have a team that has a real shot at playoffs. I think next season we just miss out and the season after we are in a position to make a wildcard or even 3rd in conference.

 

[I in the Eye]

My interpretation: we know the really good guys aren't going to want to come here, so we're going to offer the biggest contracts with the most term to middle 6 guys.

My interpretation is that they are going to offer ufa's a lot of money and term, and won't stop until they get a few.

 

[Fire Benning]

I fully expect them to chase Myers heavily and probably land him.

If they don’t they’ll probably end up overspending to get another terrible defenseman like Ben Lovejoy, who somehow is still in the league.

 

[TruGr1t]

I fully expect them to chase Myers heavily and probably land him.

If they don’t they’ll probably end up overspending to get another terrible defenseman like Ben Lovejoy, who somehow is still in the league.

Myers is a total land mine for a few reasons: a) Spends his summers in B.C. and comfortable playing in Canada; b) Serious indications he's declining and will be looking to cash out on his last contract before his game tanks; c) Benning is probably the only GM in the league that doesn't realize the second point (i.e. b) and will thus vastly outbid his peers.

He's basically the defensive version of Eriksson. Sounds about right.

 

[Josepho]

i'm seriously f***ing baffled that we seemingly aren't more interested in Karlsson

 

[DonnyNucker]

i'm seriously ****ing baffled that we seemingly aren't more interested in Karlsson

I’m very thankful we aren’t. His contract will be a franchise cratering anchor in a few years

 

[Josepho]

I’m very thankful we aren’t. His contract will be a franchise cratering anchor in a few years

Aside from the fact that I'm not even sure it'd be that bad in years 5-7, I think it's pretty pathetic to not attempt to sign a top 5 player in a position of need because you're afraid he might be somewhat overpaid at the end of the contract.

And it's better than all the other guys we're seemingly looking at who'll be "franchise cratering" immediately.

 

[4Twenty]

Aside from the fact that I'm not even sure it'd be that bad in years 5-7, I think it's pretty pathetic to not attempt to sign a top 5 player in a position of need because you're afraid he might be somewhat overpaid at the end of the contract.

And it's better than all the other guys we're seemingly looking at who'll be "franchise cratering" immediately.

Exactly.

Contract structure is incredibly important. Front load and signing bonus the heck out of it, and if he's broken in the last couple years of it, he's on LTIR or bought out, but the guy even at 60% is one of the best players in the NHL.

 

[I in the Eye]

i'm seriously ****ing baffled that we seemingly aren't more interested in Karlsson

I think they are going after everyone...

 

[PetterssonSimp]

Yes, I'm almost resigned to Myers...but does he make a good first pass?

6’8 Aaron Rome without the quality defence or physical play. His most used break out? Off the glass and out and into the other teams possession. He’s awful!

 

[PetterssonSimp]

I'd rather 50 games of a decent to good D-man than 82 games of a completely overrated one.



I think you'll find that Myers is an upgrade on the likes of Real Gud Poo but he's not really someone you want to count on in the top 4 IMO and not someone you want to pay the $6+ mil a year he's going to get. It would still likely be a poor blueline. I don't think much of Dzingel and think he's a guy that likely gets far too much money and term for his 40 points (and not much else brought to the table). I don't think his 56 point season will be repeated.

Hayes I have some interest in but he seems like he will be the recipient of what will turn out to be a long line of bad contracts given to UFAs at his level this summer. You don't go shopping for this tier of player until you are close or unless you can get a really good deal.

The Jets, who had multiple defenceman go down this year, still kept Myers around 4th/5th 5v5 mins. So when they had Trouba or Buff go down, they didn’t even trust to move him up. As he’s a #5 defenceman with draft pedigree and a big frame. Does this not sound familiar? Canucks had to take on a guy who had basically found himself in cap dump territory with 3 years remaining just to move the last guy out

 

[Fire Benning]

i'm seriously ****ing baffled that we seemingly aren't more interested in Karlsson

Given Benning's obsession with "power play defensemen" I'd be surprised if he doesn't chase him.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

Given Benning's obsession with "power play defensemen" I'd be surprised if he doesn't chase him.

Funny thing about this notion. Myers had minimal PP time, who would play him over Trouba/Buff on the PP? Yet Elmer is connected to his name quite a bit.
Karlsson? A guy who has like a 70+ point season under him? Probably close to half of those point on the PP? Not a blip of connection.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Aside from the fact that I'm not even sure it'd be that bad in years 5-7, I think it's pretty pathetic to not attempt to sign a top 5 player in a position of need because you're afraid he might be somewhat overpaid at the end of the contract.

And it's better than all the other guys we're seemingly looking at who'll be "franchise cratering" immediately.

Signing Karlsson would be taking a shortcut. An extremely short sighted shortcut. Add in the fact that he is often a train wreck defensively and his injuries are becoming more common and I’m seeing a lot of red flags. My preference would be to not consider any contracts with a term exceeding 3 years. We will need cap flexibility in a few years.

 

[VanJack]

Signing Karlsson would be taking a shortcut. An extremely short sighted shortcut. Add in the fact that he is often a train wreck defensively and his injuries are becoming more common and I’m seeing a lot of red flags. My preference would be to not consider any contracts with a term exceeding 3 years. We will need cap flexibility in a few years.

The real problem is that Jimbo is in desperate need of "a shortcut", any shortcut. One more year in lottery land and he's likely walking the plank.

He knows he can't think about bringing the same blueline back, and there's really nothing in the pipeline. So he really has no choice but swing for the fences on July 1st....and if it all flops, "well that's a problem for the next GM to fix".

 

[Phenomenon13]

One of the things that irks me about this regime is the pseudo-profound BS that they use. They peddle statements, like "aggressive in the mid-tier market", that sound profound but really don't have a specific, clear meaning. At first glance, it looks profound, but when you really consider the meaning, what exactly is "mid-tier" player? Obviously, "mid-tier" is below "high-tier", and above "low-tier"... but none of it means anything concrete. Ask any random 5 hockey people what a "mid-tier" player means to them, and they give up to 5 different definitions and identifications of possible players.

The first follow up question to "aggressive in the mid-tier market" should be, "how do you define mid-tier player"... "how do you identify and assess players to place into each tier grouping?... "What are the similarities and differences between a 'mid-tier player' and a 'prototypical Brian Burke-type forward'?"

This regime is good at selling bull****.

Based on what I've seen, any competent nhler would be a mid tier player on our team.

 

[rypper]

6’8 Aaron Rome without the quality defence or physical play. His most used break out? Off the glass and out and into the other teams possession. He’s awful!

That's straight up Gudbranson 2.0.

 

[DFAC]

The real problem is that Jimbo is in desperate need of "a shortcut", any shortcut. One more year in lottery land and he's likely walking the plank.

He knows he can't think about bringing the same blueline back, and there's really nothing in the pipeline. So he really has no choice but swing for the fences on July 1st....and if it all flops, "well that's a problem for the next GM to fix".

 

[PetterssonSimp]

That's straight up Gudbranson 2.0.

If you’ve watched Myers in the last couple years, his inside turning is as bad as Guddy’s. his defence is atrocious most nights, constantly giving the puck away like he’s auditioning for Sbisa’s Pizzas.