I'm going to defend Holmgren for a second.

[Embiid]

The Top-10 bad Holmgren moves that aren’t trading Richards, Carter

http://the700level.com/flyers/the-top-10-bad-holmgren-moves-that-arent-trading-richards-carter/

Gambler is a good characterization of Holmgren.....he needs to check into Gambler's annonymous when he departs or call one of those numbers on the Casino billboards or slot machines..because he clearly has a problem....

This is why his record as GM has been all over the board. As I've said the dude is reactionary and not measured in his GM approach. His gambles when he first came aboard and with the Carter and Richards trades were very good although the latter still has some dividends to pay before it can judged conclusively. Everything in between has been like throwing wet socks against a locker and hoping they stick.

One other gross miscalc that totally screwed up team chemistry going into the playoffs and was the result of cap misamanagement was when he had to unload Metropolit and Vananaan. The players noted how that messed them up..

 

[Embiid]

there is ZERO defense for signing Leighton that season. That one signing led to a domino effect at the goaltending position that the organization didnt recover from until this season.
Not only did Leighton get signed but then Leighton lied about an injury. needed surgery and missed time. His contract should of been voided. But no our great and powerful GM with "balls of steel" chose to keep him around.

And sure enough he followed it up by saying "we" overrated our team and players..then Carter and Richards were dealt...and Bryz came in and the next circle of Dante's inferno ensued...

 

[Beef Invictus]

To be honest it remains to be seen if Mason is a solution in net, the season is young. He looks like the real deal though; still, ****, it was all avoidable.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

To be honest it remains to be seen if Mason is a solution in net, the season is young. He looks like the real deal though; still, ****, it was all avoidable.

well yeah. it is obvious the sample size is too small to say he is the answer. right now he is. But there is little doubt the difference between this year and last. Mason is playing with a lot of confidence right now no doubt. Big test comes when he has to face some adversity if he has a bad stretch.

 

[Garbage Goal]

The 27th pick ended up being big defenseman John Carlson, who, at just 23 years old, has already played three full seasons on the Capitals’ blue line and is currently the team’s No. 2 defensemen in terms of ice time.

Don’t like Carlson? OK. Florida Panthers goaltender Jacob Markstrom and Stanley Cup-winning LA Kings defenseman Slava Voynov went No. 31 and No. 32. St. Louis Blues up-and-coming goalie Jake Allen went 34th, while Nashville Predators defenseman Roman Josi and Edmonton Oilers blue-liner Justin Schultz went No. 38 and No. 43. Don’t count out New York Rangers center Derek Stepan or New York Islanders defense Travis Hamonic, who also went late in the second round.

Ooph. Didn't realize quite how badly we missed out on that first for Eminger.

 

[whatthef]

How? Have we made many bad trades? Signed many bad contracts (Streit aside)? We all know the real reason Bryzgalov was signed, at least he dealt with it.

I disagree pretty strongly with those statements. I would say his strength as a GM has in general been in trades. However, most of his best trades were a few years ago and the two of the three most recent 'major' trades he's made have been bad. I'd say both the JvR-Schenn and Bobrovsky trades were bad. The Mason trade is looking ok.

But most of the contracts he's signed are bad IMO. The players might be good, or at least good right now but I'd say most of his contracts will be come a hindrance eventually. I'm happy we got Vinny, but I'm not a big fan of the contract it either should have been less money or less years. As you mentioned the Streit contact is bad. I'm a big Timonen fan but it was clear last year he was on the decline (if it wasn't clear sooner). I'm ok with bringing him back, but he isn't worth 6mil at this point (thankfully it's just a 1 year deal). One contract I hate and expect to become an albatross sooner rather than later, but hardly ever is mentioned in these discussions is Hartnell's. For some reason Homer felt the need to extend him right after what was clearly a career year for him even though there was no pressing need to do so at the time. Too much money and too many years for a player of his ilk and at his age. Even though they aren't relevant to the team right now I'll throw out the Shelly and Leighton signings just because they were so awful.

Even so you don't rate a GM on individual trades and contracts because his job is to build a good TEAM. He has been terrible at that for at least two season. The clearest example of that is the defense. Ok so Pronger got injured Homer couldn't have predicted it. He tried to address that issue one time. He made an offer sheet to Shea Weber (which as we all know was matched). Other than that in almost two years have seen no sign that Homer has tried to replace Pronger. I don't mean his skill set per say I mean just a number 1 defenseman at all. I'm not even sure who would be considered the number 1 defeseman on the team. I don't think there is a defenseman on this team who would be anything more than a number 3 on a contending team. Maybe he has tried to address this behind the scenes, and maybe he made some good moves a few years ago. But this is a results based business, and he hasn't been getting results in several years. He should have been fired last season, and I just hope he's fired soon before he tries to 'fix' things.

 

[Garbage Goal]

Homer has been bad with signings mostly (especially the depth ones), his trades have been hit-or-miss mostly, he held on to Laviolette for way too long and let him go at a very arbitrary point in time, and then there's the massive contracts he got lucky with being able to get out of. Namely Pronger (he didn't even understand that it was a 35+ contract when he made it...), Briere (compliance buyout and a completely useless player at this point), and Bryzgalov (compliance buyout).

If it weren't for those two compliance buyouts we'd be screwed right now. Even with the Pronger contract we don't know if he would still be effective at this age if he were even healthy.

 

[daynus]

the bizarre thing about the pronger trade

is timing. when edmonton made the pitch for and got him, they got him cheaper than the price we paid to anaheim for him. if only we could have got him a few seasons earlier, and to trump edmontons offer, we would have offered a bit more, which in the end would have been less, than the price we actually paid. similar to buying a stock at a cheaper price, earning a few more years of dividends, in the end you would end up with more $$$ in your account.

 

[Curufinwe]

Briere could have been traded if the compliance buyouts weren't brought in by the new CBA.

I have no problems with his contract, or his performance until the concussions started affecting him. Briere should not be lumped in with Bryzgalov.

 

[Boxscore]

Holmgren also made a big mistake when he let Jagr walk. Jagr lead by example, inspired the team and helped turn Giroux into a top player and Hartnell into a real nice one. The young core of this team would have benefited greatly from having Jagr around a couple more years but Holmgren was too busy swinging for the fences in Parise, Suter and Weber, knowing there was a 1% realistic chance in landing any of the above. I don't think Holmgren has an appreciation for team chemistry..... or at the very least knows how to critique it.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

To be honest it remains to be seen if Mason is a solution in net, the season is young. He looks like the real deal though; still, ****, it was all avoidable.

Remember, Bryz played pretty darn well in the first month last season. Just sayin'.

 

[Curufinwe]

Bryz always looked slow moving laterally and was bad at finding the puck when screened. Those are two problems Mason doesn't have.

 

[Garbage Goal]

Briere could have been traded if the compliance buyouts weren't brought in by the new CBA.

I have no problems with his contract, or his performance until the concussions started affecting him. Briere should not be lumped in with Bryzgalov.

He put up some impressive post-season numbers but that was kind of negated by the facts that his defensive play was piss poor and usually resulted in lots of goals against, that he was injured or sub-par more often then not in the regular seasons we had him, and that he turned into pretty much a useless player by the end of his stay here.

He's still useless in Montreal. You can argue we could have traded him but you can't be sure of that and I doubt it. He was useless and had a huge contract so it's unlikely there would be a lot of interest in him. Even as a free agent he barely got a contract in Montreal earning pittance compared to what he was being paid.

 

[Boxscore]

Remember, Bryz played pretty darn well in the first month last season. Just sayin'.

I really don't think he played "well," I just don't think he sucked as bad as he did his first year. He wasn't the "reason" the Flyers lost but he certainly never stole a game. He was just ok. There were a few games this season where Mason was outstanding and gave the Flyers a legit chance to steal games if they could score more than 1 or 2 goals. IMHO Mason is clearly better than what Bryz was last year.

 

[Curufinwe]

Even as a free agent he barely got a contract in Montreal earning pittance compared to what he was being paid.

$8 million over two years is not a pittance.

It's 60% more than the salary he would have been making if he hadn't been bought out.

 

[DumpyD]

With respect, that's conjecture. Either way, a half fit Pronger still beats down any of our D not called Kimmo.

Four surgeries in a year is not conjecture. Pronger had obviously lost a step by 2011 as there were numerous times when skaters skated right by him. You can go back as far as his 2010 Olympics appearance for evidence of this. He was awful most of that tournament.

Pronger was pivotal for our cup run, but that is exactly why we went out of our way to acquire him: a push for the cup before the wheels came off. The wheels obviously came off a little sooner than expected, but that contract extension was clearly circumventing the cap. I can't remember ever seeing a first ballot hall of famer in modern times playing two years at 500k a piece.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

I really don't think he played "well," I just don't think he sucked as bad as he did his first year. He wasn't the "reason" the Flyers lost but he certainly never stole a game. He was just ok. There were a few games this season where Mason was outstanding and gave the Flyers a legit chance to steal games if they could score more than 1 or 2 goals. IMHO Mason is clearly better than what Bryz was last year.

From January 19th to February 9th he had a save percentage of 0.921 over 11 games and was the primary reason why the Flyers won a couple of those games. Mason's put up a 0.924 save percentage this year, for comparson.

It's easy to forget about Bryz's hot start given how he played the rest of the year.

 

[Garbage Goal]

$8 million over two years is not a pittance.

It's 60% more than the salary he would have been making if he hadn't been bought out.

What does his salary matter at all? My point was that he is a horrible player in the now and we would have been screwed if both he and Byrz were on the books still. Considering he hasn't put up major numbers since '10-'11, he has a grand total of 7 goals and 19 points over his last 42 games, he's horrible defensively, and not special in any regard in any other facet of the game, as well as the fact that his cap hit was much higher on his old contract I doubt that anyone would trade for him.

You're the one that deserves the right now.

 

[DrHamburg]

Holmgren also made a big mistake when he let Jagr walk. Jagr lead by example, inspired the team and helped turn Giroux into a top player and Hartnell into a real nice one. The young core of this team would have benefited greatly from having Jagr around a couple more years but Holmgren was too busy swinging for the fences in Parise, Suter and Weber, knowing there was a 1% realistic chance in landing any of the above. I don't think Holmgren has an appreciation for team chemistry..... or at the very least knows how to critique it.

Jagr brought a lot to this team. But he was just dreadful in the Devils series and looked slow and old and really hurt his lines all series long.

 

[Boxscore]

Jagr brought a lot to this team. But he was just dreadful in the Devils series and looked slow and old and really hurt his lines all series long.

The whole team looked like garbage against the Devils. A calendar year later, Jagr looked incredible in the playoffs. Even this year Jagr's playing well. If you remember, even Giroux looked awful vs. the Devils and started to unravel. The Flyers underestimated the Devils and they lulled the Flyers to sleep by smothering them and not firing them up like the Penguins did. Jagr wasn't the "problem."

 

[FlyingPhilly]

One big fault was to not get a PMD when trading Carter and Richards. If he had done so, we very well could have had Voyonov and JVR instead of Schenn x2

They tried to get him included in the deal but LA told them no dice.

Would LA have accepted the deal if Holmgren swapped out BSchenn for Voynov?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Would LA have accepted the deal if Holmgren swapped out BSchenn for Voynov?

If I remember correctly it was one or the other. I don't blame them for going with Schenn though. At that time he was clearly the more valuable player of the two.

He's still only 22 so I'm not going to complain even now.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

On sportsnet insider segment they said a change in gm won't happen in season most likely. So anyone wanting him fired is probably not going to get their wish

I would say this is the right approach. If Hextall is indeed the heir apparent GM let him sit back & evaluate what he has while letting Homer take the brunt of the heat. Let him start off fresh this offseason.

I do believe this will be Homer's last season regardless of what the outcome is.

 

[Tripod]

Holmgren also made a big mistake when he let Jagr walk. Jagr lead by example, inspired the team and helped turn Giroux into a top player and Hartnell into a real nice one. The young core of this team would have benefited greatly from having Jagr around a couple more years but Holmgren was too busy swinging for the fences in Parise, Suter and Weber, knowing there was a 1% realistic chance in landing any of the above. I don't think Holmgren has an appreciation for team chemistry..... or at the very least knows how to critique it.

Yet here people are *****ing about not having a #1 d. If we re-signed Jagr, the masses would be shouting how he signed a 40 year old who was starting to break down instead of using cap space for a #1 d. Can't have it both ways.

 

[whatthef]

Yet here people are *****ing about not having a #1 d. If we re-signed Jagr, the masses would be shouting how he signed a 40 year old who was starting to break down instead of using cap space for a #1 d. Can't have it both ways.

So instead we got neither. Not sure that is a better option.