Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by yzerman, Jun 8, 2021.
Who is the better goaltender in your opinion?
Sooo close, but I'll go with Sorokin based on career playoff success.
this is going to be an interesting one to follow going forward
homer vote for Soro. He is young and raw, but his athleticism is A+ and he has a great coaching staff / support network going forward.
I’ve got Shesterkin, but it’s really not that far off. Both goalies will alternate having better years.
Sorokin, but it's somewhat close.
Sorokin plays for a good system team and Shesterkin plays for Rangers. You should take it into account.
Considering Shesterkin has outplayed Sorokin at every level, Shesterkin. Not AINEC but anyone picking Sorokin is trying too hard to be different. Shesterkin put up better numbers this year on a worse defensive team, and was the best goalie in the NHL on breakaways this season. Iirc Shesterkin only allowed <2 goals on 25+ breakaways, which was the best ratio in the league and a pretty crazy stat. He’s also much better handling the puck. The only advantage Sorokin has so far is that he’s getting playoff time
You can say the same for Shesterkin aside from the coaching staff part. And Sorokin played in a good system, arguably the best system in the league and still couldn’t keep up with Shesterkin, who’s the same age as him and played in David Quinn’s system
Ilya was also a complete rookie adjusting to both the best league in the world and a whole new country. Igor wasn't.
Hard to compare as literally every goalie that plays for the Islanders has great results.
Yes, because Igor came over one year earlier. Let’s look at Igor’s stats from last year then?
AHL: 25 games played, .934 save percentage, AHL All Star. Team sinks to below .500 after he gets called up to the NHL. The other 2 goalies for Hartford both had a sub .900 save percentage
NHL: .932 save percentage averaging 35+ shots against
Both are very underrated.
You cant, in the same sentence, make a claim that the players are close but then negatively label those who think differently than you
Right. Igor got gently led into the NA pros with practically a full season of AHL work. Ilya went straight into the lions den.
To no surprise, two of Ilya's worst games this season were in the first three he played.
Is it really though? Sorokin's a former playoff MVP who led his team to the championship, KHL goalie of the year and so on, Shesterkin is not. Why would it be so crazy to pick Sorokin here? Or are you only going by the small sample size they've had in the NHL?
Sorokin in his rookie season, without any north American hockey under his belt had a better save %, goals against average, and more shutouts in less games, but sure its not close and your goalie is far, far better. Get real guy. Its close and way to early to tell who is a better goalie.
You could play that same game though on Shestyorkin's career. He has plenty of accolades, including more individual accolades than Sorokin. He's only gotten one chance to lead his team in the playoffs. It's not his fault SKA said they wanted to give the higher paid goalies the net in the playoffs because they want them earning their salaries. Same reason why a player like Bob would get the net for Florida to start or Varlamov for NYI.
And if you want to just look at stats, Shestyorkin has objectively been better. If you look further into those stats, Sorokin has played for better defensive teams. Sorokin is good and very underrated, as I already said, but Shestyorkin has pretty objectively been better. It was even suggested a few years back by the Russian National Team goalie coach that Shestyorkin is the better and more developed goalie. Sorokin has similar or better athleticism and size, but doesn't posses the same type of consistency, hockey sense, positioning, and puck-handling of Shestyorkin.
Anyone can play this game. Sorokin had considerably worse stats than Varlamov. Shestyorkin had considerably better stats than Georgiyev. The team they play for clearly plays a role. GAA is not a relevant stat. Better SV% is pretty worthless without any context. Shestyorkin had the better SV% almost the whole season, and then his numbers dropped like 10 points the last 10 games when the Rangers fell out of the playoff race and two of their three good defensemen got injured. Sorokin had the considerably easier workload than Shestyorkin, both in games played and what he was facing each game. He ends up with a 2 point better SV%. Sorry, it's not a great argument.
And this way too early stuff is only for the ignorant that think everything revolves around once a player reaches the NHL. Have they not been competing for the same spots in the Russian National Teams for about 8-9 years? They are in the middle of their careers. A career doesn't start once someone reaches the NHL. We have a pretty good idea what these two goalies are right now, and did years prior. The KHL is not a beer league in the middle of Siberia. It's the second best league in the world, and these players have been two of the best young goalies in the game for many years. Now they aren't even that young. They are 25, and should be expected to deliver instantly. This is the middle of their careers.
Which individual accolades are you referring to?
In 16/17 that was the case, yes. In 18/19 he was just not good and split the workload with Magnus Hellberg who actually did a better job. Same year, Sorokin was the MVP.
SKA was a powerhouse though and the best team in the KHL, it's not like there's any real difference between playing behind the defence of CSKA or SKA during those years.
Stephen Valiquette during the intermission shows would keep track of this. Shesterkin’s breakaway numbers were by far the best in the NHL.
Through 47 career games for Shesterkin he has a .921 save percentage. Through 22 career games for Sorokin he has a .918.
Shesterkin’s numbers were better than Sorokin’s the entire year until the last 2 weeks of the season where the Rangers completely gave up after they officially missed the playoffs.
Simply read the bottom of his EP page: Igor Shestyorkin at eliteprospects.com
2012-13: WJC18 Top 3 Player on Team Russia
2013-14: MHL All-Star Game
2014-15: WJC20 Top 3 Player on Team Russia
2015-16: VHL Top GAA and SV%
2016-17: First Team All-Star and KHL All-Star Game
2017-18: KHL All-Star Game
2018-19: KHL Top GAA and SV%
2019-20: AHL All-Star Game
He has quite literally gotten some type of prestigious individual accolade every year he has played in a league that the public follows, except his first full season in the NHL. And he still might get it for that season. I think NHL All Rookie Team is very possible. 8 straight years, and it could be 9.
That isn't to mention that when he has the best career SV% and GAA in the KHL for goalies with a minimum of 100 games. And the 2016-17 season he should've won goalie of the year. He had the best regular season, which is indicated in the First Team All-Star accolade. But then because SKA got upset in the final by another team they gave it to that team's goalie, who wasn't even one of the league's best goalies during the regular season. It was utterly bogus, and an overreaction to the playoffs that Shestyorkin didn't even really get to be the starter in.
So you skip a full year? 16/17 and 17/18. 18/19 he put up maybe the greatest season in the league's history for a goalie. Of course he was going to start the playoffs. That doesn't excuse what happened the two prior seasons. And SKA was overall bad in the 18/19 playoffs. Blaming it on the goalie is ridiculous, if you watched the games. They deservedly lost to CSKA in the Conference Finals.
People who don't watch the KHL usually don't understand that CSKA gets the same level of results as SKA. SKA might be the biggest name in the league with the biggest stars, but CSKA is routinely better coached and plays a better defensive system that yields better defensive results. SKA plays pond hockey with the most talented roster in the league. For a goalie, it's easier to put up stats on CSKA. This is shown in their career KHL numbers where Shestyorkin has a pretty significant enough better SV% (5 points), but his GAA is only .02 better than Sorokin. Thats a mark of CSKA being better defensively than SKA where the GAA is closer than the SV%.
Also, Sorokin didn't even have the best stats on CSKA during his time at the team. Lars Johansson has better career numbers, and they were at CSKA during the same time. None of the SKA goalies career stats are that close to Shestyorkin, and they've had more talented goalies in Koskinen and Hellberg.
I know where your heart is and that you would die for this goalie, but come on. How is this an argument in Shestyorkin's favor?
15-16: KHL First All-Star, KHL Best GAA, KHL Best Goaltender
16-17: KHL All-Star
17-18: KHL All-Star
18-19: KHL All-Star, KHL Most Shutouts, Playoff Best GAA, Playoff Best svs%, Playoff MVP
19-20: KHL All-Star, KHL Most Shutouts
Sorokin's got the hardware when comparing accolades.
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