Player Discussion Ilya Kovalchuk

[AlexGretzchenvid]

It’s been fun to watch him on the tail end of his career here but there’s a reason no one would sign him. He’s gotten hot for a very short span, the best thing we could do is sell. The idea of a multi year extension is ridiculous, much less at high money and term. I’m enjoying him for what he is. A big name stopgap who will make a good trivia question some day.

Either keep him or get almost any pick for him. I'm sure Bergevin and scouting company may have an eye on someone slated to go late in a future draft to try to get the right pick in that area. Maybe they keep him. Either way do we really think they are going to tell us the truth?

 

[AlexGretzchenvid]

It's actually funny because kovy isn't exactly playing for money right now. What he's used to getting paid on a team and the expectations that come along with that.. Maybe he has nothing to lose and everything to gain and it's bringing out a junior like attitude of wanting to make it in the show.

 

[Cobra Commander]

For the love of logic and truth stop calling him a superstar lol.

So because MB makes an egregious error in signing Alzner it somehow justifies making more idiotic signings????

Your logic is absolutely backwards at this point.

So signing our best and most talented player to a fair contract is an idiotic signing? Got you.

 

[Max2]

Depends on where the habs sit around the trade deadline in regards to Kovalchuk. I want the habs to draft Byfield so we can call him Bustfield. He looked awful at the world juniors which doesn't mean that much.

 

[Burke the Legend]

Depends on where the habs sit around the trade deadline in regards to Kovalchuk. I want the habs to draft Byfield so we can call him Bustfield. He looked awful at the world juniors which doesn't mean that much.

14 games before trade deadline so we'll see how the Habs do and if Kovalchuk keeps it up or not.

I think Bergevin & Kovalchuk's have an unwritten agreement on what happens in some kind of scenario like this where Kovalchuk is doing well but the Habs are slipping out of playoff position. Would be up to him if he wants out to compete for a cup then Bergevin agrees trades him, or if he really is feeling it here anyway and signs on for next year's campaign then I'm guessing that's not a problem as long as the money/term are reasonable (*cough Markov cough*).

 

[sampollock]

yes

1 year at 4 mill

 

[Habs Halifax]

In decades?!?!?!?! Dude, just in 2007 our prospect pool included Price, McDonagh, Subban and Pacioretty!

2007 was 13 years ago. So more than a decade. We had Price from 2005 and the 07 draft was unreal yes. Did we ever have both quality of grade A's and quantity behind them? When you talk potential before they were proven? It's easy to talk about prospects who turned into very good NHL talent but what was the believe before they were proven? The point is prospect trends and potential right?

- Primeau < Price. Edge to Price for sure but Primeau has a solid resume. Doubt he becomes as good as Price though.

- Caufield > Patch. Caufield has more potential pre NHL

- Romanov = Subban. In terms of potential pre NHL, Romanov's resume is just as impressive or more vs Subban

- McDonagh = Harris. McDonagh didn't really dominate the NCCA from what I remember.

What about the comparisons to Suzuki, Poehling, Norlinder, Brook, Struble, etc? I repeat, we have not had a prospect pool like we have today in decades. It has both quality of grade A guys and quantity of grade B behind them.

18/19 WJC: We had 7 guys play that tournament and would have been 9 with KK and Ikonen. Romanov, Primeau, Poehling were dominate. Suzuki, Brook, Ylonen were solid. Olofsson was meh.

19/20 WJC: We had 4 guys play this year. Romanov was dominate again. Caufield was like Suzuki last year. Harris was like Brook last year. Norlinder was not used in a key role cause the Sweds were stacked on D.

Do you know how rare it is to have 11 guys play WJC in back to back tournaments? And could have easily been more

 

[Habs Halifax]

I understand the odds of winning the lottery for the #1 pick are not good however we would still have around 20% chance of getting into the top 3 to select someone like Byfield or Stutzle. We saw that happen the year we selected Kotkaniemi.

It's more possible we can get the 2nd or 3rd pick yes. But I really don't think signing Kovalchuk changes much. We have won 4 of 8 games with Kovy. Without him, we win 2 or 3 games? . I just don't think our team sucks that much. But yeah, if we really wanted to tank, we could have rested vests and played the kids in more key roles. Still think we end up with a 8-12 range pick.

We are stuck cause we are too legit to tank and we are in too much growing pain years with our kids to become a contender or yearly playoff team in the short span.

 

[Koivu11]

It's more possible we can get the 2nd or 3rd pick yes. But I really don't think signing Kovalchuk changes much. We have won 4 or 8 games with Kovy. Without him, we win 2 or 3 games? . I just don't think our team sucks that much. But yeah, if we really wanted to tank, we could have rested vests and played the kids in more key roles. Still think we end up with a 8-12 range pick.

We are stuck cause we are too legit to tank and we are in too much growing pain years with our kids to become a contender or yearly playoff team in the short span.

I guess I'm just tired of band-aid solutions from our current management - we're stuck in mediocrity because we've never done a proper rebuild.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I guess I'm just tired of band-aid solutions from our current management - we're stuck in mediocrity because we've never done a proper rebuild.

What is a proper rebuild? It don't exist. What we have done from 17+ draft years is solid. Very solid. I get the frustrations and I feel we all have that to some degree. But we do have a lot of potential with our current youth and prospects coming. Plus we have lots of picks coming in too.

Starts up the middle with me and we have not checked that need off until Suzuki and KK can be impact centers to go along with Danault. Talking about being effective at both ends of the ice cause we clearly need that. Domi and Poehling should be wingers IMO.

Growing pain years to come. But yes, some are loosing patience cause our GM is Bergevin.

 

[Beer and Chips]

I think MB is looking to next year with a healthy squad with both Kovalchuk and
Tatar I don't think that will be enough for the fanbase, he needs another 1st round pick for the draft in Montreal.

 

[26Mats]

There's no catching Detroit with or without Kovalchuk. So the odds of getting Lafreniere are always going to be very low.

The last place team only has 18.5% chance of getting Lafreniere.

 

[Sorinth]

The last place team only has 18.5% chance of getting Lafreniere.

Which is one reason why it doesn't really matter whether Kovalchuk helps us win a few games it barely changes the odds.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

2007 was 13 years ago. So more than a decade. We had Price from 2005 and the 07 draft was unreal yes. Did we ever have both quality of grade A's and quantity behind them? When you talk potential before they were proven? It's easy to talk about prospects who turned into very good NHL talent but what was the believe before they were proven? The point is prospect trends and potential right?

- Primeau < Price. Edge to Price for sure but Primeau has a solid resume. Doubt he becomes as good as Price though.

- Caufield > Patch. Caufield has more potential pre NHL

- Romanov = Subban. In terms of potential pre NHL, Romanov's resume is just as impressive or more vs Subban

- McDonagh = Harris. McDonagh didn't really dominate the NCCA from what I remember.

What about the comparisons to Suzuki, Poehling, Norlinder, Brook, Struble, etc? I repeat, we have not had a prospect pool like we have today in decades. It has both quality of grade A guys and quantity of grade B behind them.

18/19 WJC: We had 7 guys play that tournament and would have been 9 with KK and Ikonen. Romanov, Primeau, Poehling were dominate. Suzuki, Brook, Ylonen were solid. Olofsson was meh.

19/20 WJC: We had 4 guys play this year. Romanov was dominate again. Caufield was like Suzuki last year. Harris was like Brook last year. Norlinder was not used in a key role cause the Sweds were stacked on D.

Do you know how rare it is to have 11 guys play WJC in back to back tournaments? And could have easily been more

1. You keep saying decades so I'm not sure why you're griping about me using 2007.
2. All of these prospects were highly rated at the time of the draft, particularly Subban and Price. Subban had some concern about his defensive abilities and his offensive potential was already regarded as off the charts. Besides, whether that potential was known at the time is immaterial. The only thing that counts if how they turned out - proving that they were a phenomenal group. Out of it, there's an MVP goalie, a Norris winner + 2x finalist, another top 2 d-men and a first-line forward who ranks highly among his decade's goalscorers. I'd be absolutely stumped if this crop comes remotely close to that.
3. If you're going to use guys like Suzuki as prospects then 2007 should definitely include a guy like Plekanec who was an elite two-way center in his prime. He had played one year at the time.

 

[LaP]

Depends on where the habs sit around the trade deadline in regards to Kovalchuk. I want the habs to draft Byfield so we can call him Bustfield. He looked awful at the world juniors which doesn't mean that much.

I would prefer Bustis Lafrebust

 

[LaP]

I think MB is looking to next year with a healthy squad with both Kovalchuk and
Tatar I don't think that will be enough for the fanbase, he needs another 1st round pick for the draft in Montreal.

He might never have a healthier squad than this year. It's a myth that we have been plagued with injuries more than usual. Our injuries are perfectly normal and this is what you should expect at the beginning of a season. Our number 1 goalie did not miss a game. Our top 3 dmen did not miss a game. Our top 2 centers did not miss a game. We missed wingers and a 3rd line center nothing to write home about. If your team needs to be 100% healthy to make it then it's not a good team and you set yourself up for failure as a GM.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I would re-sign Kovalchuk if he can keep it up, is interested in playing here and would only fetch a 3rd or a 2nd.

 

[ijuka]

Nice to see that the initial impression of a lot of us was correct and that he just needed a big role to perform. He has his flaws, but he's easily a first line player as long as he gets the responsibility, and I'm really happy that everyone gets to see that he just was mistreated in LA by a leadership group that hates Russian players.

 

[26Mats]

Which is one reason why it doesn't really matter whether Kovalchuk helps us win a few games it barely changes the odds.

I happen to think Kovalchuk can make a big difference. We have a much better win % with Kovalchuk in the lineup and without Drouin and Byron out versus our record without Kovalchuk and without those players.

We're 4-4-0 (.500 win %) with him in the lineup (and still without Drouin and Byron), and 7-13-4 (.375 win %) since Drouin and Byron went down and before Kovalchuk arrived. Plus that doesn't take into account that Gallagher was only in the lineup for 1 f the 8 games Kovalchuk's played in but most of the games before kovalchuk was here.

And if he's healthy, he'll end up playing 40 games (almost half the season) with us. Given how tight the standings are, he could significantly impact our draft position.

 

[Sorinth]

I happen to think Kovalchuk can make a big difference. We have a much better win % with Kovalchuk in the lineup and without Drouin and Byron out versus our record without Kovalchuk and without those players.

We're 4-4-0 (.500 win %) with him in the lineup (and still without Drouin and Byron), and 7-13-4 (.375 win %) since Drouin and Byron went down and before Kovalchuk arrived. Plus that doesn't take into account that Gallagher was only in the lineup for 1 f the 8 games Kovalchuk's played in but most of the games before kovalchuk was here.

And if he's healthy, he'll end up playing 40 games (almost half the season) with us. Given how tight the standings are, he could significantly impact our draft position.

Even if we use those win% which considering the small sample size is not likely to hold. That's a difference of 4 wins. That's going to move our position up/down a few places at best which isn't going to change the odds of drafting Kovalchuk much.

 

[26Mats]

Even if we use those win% which considering the small sample size is not likely to hold. That's a difference of 4 wins. That's going to move our position up/down a few places at best which isn't going to change the odds of drafting Kovalchuk much.

I agree with you that we can't assume those win percentages will hold because of the small sample size. But we don't know if there will be an even higher gap or a lower gap...

But note that 4 more wins equates to 8 more points in the standings. last year the #7 worst team had 8 more points than the team that had the #2 worst record, #3 worst had 8 less points than the #10 worst, the #6 worst team had 8 less points than the #14 worst team...

So Kovalchuk in that scenario could take us from having a pick around #6 to around #14.

 

[Goal Caufield50]

It's actually funny because kovy isn't exactly playing for money right now. What he's used to getting paid on a team and the expectations that come along with that.. Maybe he has nothing to lose and everything to gain and it's bringing out a junior like attitude of wanting to make it in the show.

He was fully paid save for the two months. He gave up next years $4.2m and that is what he is playing for to equal or better that. He has loyalty to the $$

 

[Goal Caufield50]

yes

1 year at 4 mill

This figure is near what he walked from in year three of his LA contract. He will go , imho, to the highest bidder.

 

[Goal Caufield50]

For a 3rd round pick, no thanks, I believe he’s more valuable to our young guys and Romanov next year than a 3rd round pick

I can’t see a single team offering a second. Best if he is packaged to get a second

 

[Goal Caufield50]

He wanted to go to a contender and the ones that were interested wanted to wait until the deadline, he probably sensed doubt about their confidence about his ability and wanted to prove he can still play, so he accepted our offer to showcase himself and raise his stock.

He's not coming back.

If he wanted a contender he would have signed with someone other than New Jersey or LA. He is all about the money