Value of: Ignite the Calgary Flames (Trade proposals)

[DJJones]

4th best 5v5 xGF% since Dec 21. I feel like they've been crap that whole time though.

sell everyone you can, gain assets. this team is way too asset poor to do anything. oh and also someone please take Brouwer, you know you need some intangibles.

The last three years, corsi has had almost zero correlation with wins for the Flames.

Useless stat. Remember an article last year, 4 out of 5 of our best corsi games we lost and we won 3 out of 5 of our worst.

 

[oilerbear]

Okay so I understand a lot of Flames fans will dislike this thread a lot, but I'm really curious to see what other fan bases want from us and what they'd be willing to give up. I also promise I won't put my proposal inputs, only say if I like the idea of the trade proposed or not in this thread. We've really struggled as of late minus that Florida game. We need to see what value our players hold and what other teams hold for them. Honestly this is an unpopular opinion, but everyone but Tkachuk and Hamilton are available. I know Gaudreau just signed a contract and I definitely don't want to sell him cheap, but I want to see what offers are around for even him.

Conf finalist teams have:

1. High danger shot def system coaches.
Babcock, Tmac, Tippet, Deboer, Torts, Gulakson

2. Top 10 hd shot save % goalies.
13-14 to 15-16
1. Price
2. Talbot, griess
4. Holtby
5. Halak
6. Jones
7. Elliot
8. Crawford
9. Lundqvist
10. Schnieder

3. Top 60 high danger sh dman:
Brodie
Larson
Sekera
Russel
Benning

Top 90 is fine
Davidson
Engelland

Bottom 60 is what you do not want.
Klefbom
Nurse
Giordano
Hamilton
Wideman

4. Top 180 scoring depth.
Backlund
Tkachuk
Frolik
Monahan
Gaudreau
Stajan

5. +ve special teams goal dif.

Calgary,s problems is seen in the free path created to their high danger shot area.
From off dmen abandoning the path chasing points.
Considering most dmen score at a # 10 forwrd rate.
It is a terrible system approach.

 

[oilerbear]

The last three years, corsi has had almost zero correlation with wins for the Flames.

Useless stat. Remember an article last year, 4 out of 5 of our best corsi games we lost and we won 3 out of 5 of our worst.

Corsi is usually driven by forwards.

I am the process of writing books about my
1. High danger theory.
2. Situational valuation based on off/ def in comp/team/zs to drovide corsi dif in x,y; shot dif in x,y and goal dif in x,y. Which i have looked at since 2008.
3. Open/closed shot theory.

Corsi for and against is usually the penetration measure of the top 11 forwards on every team and maybe their top dman.

It reflects the blocks, misses, giveaways that lead to a higher corsi against rate.

Problem with Calgary is
There d generate corsi againstfrom abandoning the free path to the net.
Making a mess of Corsi.

Ihave not been nor never will be a fan of corsi as a measure of ga play.

It is dmens prevention of high danger shots. Which go in 5 times more than the low danger shots.

 

[Dack]

Conf finalist teams have:

1. High danger shot def system coaches.
Babcock, Tmac, Tippet, Deboer, Torts, Gulakson

2. Top 10 hd shot save % goalies.
13-14 to 15-16
1. Price
2. Talbot, griess
4. Holtby
5. Halak
6. Jones
7. Elliot
8. Crawford
9. Lundqvist
10. Schnieder

3. Top 60 high danger sh dman:
Brodie
Larson
Sekera
Russel
Benning

Top 90 is fine
Davidson
Engelland

Bottom 60 is what you do not want.
Klefbom
Nurse
Giordano
Hamilton
Wideman

4. Top 180 scoring depth.
Backlund
Tkachuk
Frolik
Monahan
Gaudreau
Stajan

5. +ve special teams goal dif.

Calgary,s problems is seen in the free path created to their high danger shot area.
From off dmen abandoning the path chasing points.
Considering most dmen score at a # 10 forwrd rate.
It is a terrible system approach.

Nope this year Giordano is in the top 60 in this stat with almost all of the flames d men being near there or top 90 as you put it. When Hamilton and Giordano play together they have a GA/60 of about 1.75 and that's after a string of terrible goals that had nothing to do with them, they aren't perfect but for the most part they get the job done. That number is easily low enough to win Hockey games, the problem is the flames have one line and one pairing (Hamilton-Gio) that bring it consistently.

The other defenceman including Brodie have not been good lately Engelland struggles to move the puck and the other 3 make terrible pinches and lose their guys down low.

 

[CaptainCrunch67]

2 big 1 for 1 trades to shake up the core that I would not mind happening.

Gaudreau for Josi
Brodie for Duchene

Flames get boned on both.

 

[DJJones]

I'd do Gaudreau for Josi after the expansion

But otherwise we don't need to blow it up. We are a under achieving bubble team with bad contracts ending and prospects coming up.

This was never our year, it's just disappointing our young guys haven't taken a step forward.

 

[Some Other Flame]

Flames looking exactly like what they were supposed to, i.e. a bubble playoff team?

Time to panic anyway and sell low on Bennett, Brodie, and Gaudreau.

Brilliant logic.

 

[Boomstick]

The players that need to go aren't the guys who are going to be the core of this team.
The players that need to go are Wideman, Jokipaka, Engelland, Chiasson, Versteeg, Bouma, Brouwer. Pretty much everyone that doesn't contribute very much.

Build the team around Hamilton, Brodie, Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Tkachuk, and the Backlund line.

The Flames have been changing scrubs for scrubs every year and they always stink. Remember TJ Galiardi, Mason Raymond, Brian Bollig, Niklas Hagman, Devon Setuguchi. Management just keeps inserting the same type of scrub every year and it goes nowhere.

 

[YourAverageFan*]

Flames looking exactly like what they were supposed to, i.e. a bubble playoff team?

Time to panic anyway and sell low on Bennett, Brodie, and Gaudreau.

Brilliant logic.

Thank you!!

I love how fans are freaking out about this season even though we're performing exactly how we were expecting to, which was battling for a playoff spot. Instead, fans are freaking out demanding a complete overhaul and wanting to trade all our best players. Make absolutely 0 sense

 

[YourAverageFan*]

The players that need to go aren't the guys who are going to be the core of this team.
The players that need to go are Wideman, Jokipaka, Engelland, Chiasson, Versteeg, Bouma, Brouwer. Pretty much everyone that doesn't contribute very much.

Build the team around Hamilton, Brodie, Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Tkachuk, and the Backlund line.

The Flames have been changing scrubs for scrubs every year and they always stink. Remember TJ Galiardi, Mason Raymond, Brian Bollig, Niklas Hagman, Devon Setuguchi. Management just keeps inserting the same type of scrub every year and it goes nowhere.

Agree with all of the above except the bolded.

Chiasson is actually useful, he's just playing in a position way over his head and as a result, all of us Flames fans hate him because he screws up chances. In reality, he's a solid 4th liner.

As for Versteeg, I've loved his play for the most part all season. He's been so good away from Brouwer, but so bad with Brouwer (like every other Flames player), which is why his advanced stats look bad this season. He's a great player to have, especially considering he'll probably have to settle for another cheap contract this summer. I hope the Flames deal him at the deadline and then re-sign him, even though I know that's unlikely.

 

[falconski]

Did you mistake Ignite for Iginla? Cause I also did.

oh, that's why this thread made no sense

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

As a Flames fan who watches the Preds as well, Josi in pure value for Gaudreau would favour Nashville, but in terms of need, Nashville loses that trade as Nashville doesn't need LW and actually has a weak D depth. And I doubt any Flames fans want Ekholm for Gaudreau. Ekholm and Backlund however is an interesting trade that I could see happening maybe.

 

[Slatsmsg]

Not a fan of either team... Giordano for M A Fleury

 

[YourAverageFan*]

Not a fan of either team... Giordano for M A Fleury

Not sure if serious...

but if you are...

 

[viper0220]

Let's just sit still, in the offseason get a true # 1 goalie, a true # top 6 forward, a good # 4 D man and a new coach. The Flames have a lot of dead weight coming off.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Anyone? Anyone?

 

[DJJones]

We're not going to do anything.

We should sell sell selll. I want to see what the AHL guys can do

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

We're not going to do anything.

We should sell sell selll

Folks you heard it here, DJJones is the newest sales person. His slogan is "Sell, sell, sell!" Why buy if you can sell? Buying is for egomaniacs, you should sell and make more money!

 

[DJJones]

Folks you heard it here, DJJones is the newest sales person. His slogan is "Sell, sell, sell!" Why buy if you can sell? Buying is for egomaniacs, you should sell and make more money!

Do you really think management is going to go all in a do something big when we don't even look like a playoff team?

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Do you really think management is going to go all in a do something big when we don't even look like a playoff team?

I know, and I wasn't making fun of you if that's what it looked like. I just thought sell, sell, sell sounded like a cool slogan. I agree that we should sell some pieces and regroup. Try to sign Alzner and/or Oshie (and is a pipedream, but or is not).

 

[Sparky93]

I know, and I wasn't making fun of you if that's what it looked like. I just thought sell, sell, sell sounded like a cool slogan. I agree that we should sell some pieces and regroup. Try to sign Alzner and/or Oshie (and is a pipedream, but or is not).

Sure but both these guys have never won a cup and their next contracts will take them through their prime. Why would they sign with a rebuilding team, that is struggling to turn the corner. We'd have to grossly overpay them for either to even consider it, IMO.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Sure but both these guys have never won a cup and their next contracts will take them through their prime. Why would they sign with a rebuilding team, that is struggling to turn the corner. We'd have to grossly overpay them for either to even consider it, IMO.

Alzner lives in Calgary I believe and has family here. And I feel the Flames are just underachieving.

 

[QcFlames12]

A small shake up may be needed but nothing major: i would go for a player like Bjugstad, hes struggling this year and has had a bit of an off year. Id offer a 2nd, morgan klimchuk and another small piece. We also need to pick up another defender, but i dont know how we do so, after our lines would look like:

Gaudreau-Bennett-Bjugstad
Versteeg-Monahan-Brouwer
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Ferland-Stajan-Hathaway
Hamilton

Gio-Hamilton
???-Brodie
Kulak-Engelland
Wotherspoon

Spares left are Chiasson, Bouma, and Wideman... All trash. Goaltending would be something to upgrade also but i have no clue how we do it with our cap situation

 

[MakeCgyGreatAgain]

A small shake up may be needed but nothing major: i would go for a player like Bjugstad, hes struggling this year and has had a bit of an off year. Id offer a 2nd, morgan klimchuk and another small piece. We also need to pick up another defender, but i dont know how we do so, after our lines would look like:

Gaudreau-Bennett-Bjugstad
Versteeg-Monahan-Brouwer
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Ferland-Stajan-Hathaway
Hamilton

Gio-Hamilton
???-Brodie
Kulak-Engelland
Wotherspoon

Spares left are Chiasson, Bouma, and Wideman... All trash. Goaltending would be something to upgrade also but i have no clue how we do it with our cap situation

Can't see Fla giving up Bjugstad for that return. I like him but that doesn't fill a need for Fla to do the deal.

 

[Kritty]

And I doubt any Flames fans want Ekholm for Gaudreau. Ekholm and Backlund however is an interesting trade that I could see happening maybe.

There is not a single Flames fan that would want that deal to happen and for good reason. Would have no problem having Ekholm but he is nowhere near the value of Backlund. Have people actually watched him play this year? It sure doesn't seem so with these proposals.

Why would they sign with a rebuilding team, that is struggling to turn the corner.

Contrary to what you may think, young players struggle sometimes. I know it's shocking to hear. This team is not struggling to turn the corner. Watch some hockey and look at the standings. This team is clearly on the way up in their rebuild. Such an ignorant comment but I'm not surprised given the source. You never have a single good thing to say about the Flames and you're supposedly a Flames fan.

Spares left are Chiasson, Bouma, and Wideman... All trash. Goaltending would be something to upgrade also but i have no clue how we do it with our cap situation

I swear most of these posters don't bother to actually watch the Flames. Chiasson is not an impact guy, was never supposed to be but he is been just fine. He has been as expected. Maybe lower your expectations of what you expect from 4th line players. As for the goaltending, it hasn't been great, but not terrible. It's been pretty average. Sure it needs to be better but I believe in the tandem that is there.