If you could, which group of players would you add to your team?
- Thread starter Varan
- Start date
So are all of these players better than Rantanen in your opinion? I had to higher the TOI/player to limit players with too few games played.
Nikolaj Ehlers is just ahead of Rantanen (59th) but somehow Rantanen has over twice the amount of points Ehlers has despite Ehlers play in Jets top line.
VoluntaryDom
Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
Most of these guys also don’t get to play with a MacKinnon level talent. And idk if you read Sportsnet, but Berkshire made an interesting article showing that Rantanen isn’t the one driving that line but MacKinnon definitely is. Yet even with all that help Rantanen finds himself down there on that list.
Side note: Alex Killorn is so underrated.
As for the Ehlers thing, remember this is a 100+ game sample. Ehlers’ recent-ish cold streak doesn’t change that he’s a good offensive player. Also remember that I am using primary points here. Rantanen is a guy who is getting overhyped because he touches the puck in the same play that MacKinnon does something spectacular. There’s a reason his secondary assist rate is so ridiculous, and that reason’s first name is Nathan. Mikko doesn’t actually drive the offense himself, and his raw totals are inflated by MacKinnon/secondary assists/the Avs hot power play. I do think he’s a good offensive player, he has very good pass-to-slot and shot assist rates, but he’s really more of a second line guy overall. Nothing special defensively and isn’t an elite individual offense driver. Good playmaker but doesn’t shoot or get chances much. He’s the perfect example of a guy getting overrated due to people treating secondary assists as equal to goals and primary assists.
VoluntaryDom
Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
Well then you quickly run into some obvious sample size issues, which is why I always use ice time minimums. But arvidsson is a very good offensive player.
Barkov is a special case due to his absurd ice time (McDavid in the same boat). I don’t think he’s as “bad” offensively as per 60 stats paint him but I do think he’s overrated offensively. Just as recently as 16-17 people were referring to kopitar as done, and it appears last year may have been a fluke with now him and the kings are faring this season. As for Wheeler, he really hasn’t been an elite 5v5 player since 16-17. Both his offense and possession numbers took a big hit in 17-18 and aren’t really bouncing back this year. He is also at the age where that could be concerning.
VoluntaryDom
Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
Explain these to me then (this is all since 17-18 to 18-19)
Ondrej Kase is 7th, clearly elite?
Dadonov is 6th, Barkov is 78th.. Everybody in the world knows which player is better and drives the line, except you?
Scheifele is 41th, Eherls is 63th, Wheeler is 87th, So clearly Wheeler is the worst of that bunch.
Vanek is 25th, better than Scheifele, Wheeler, Barkov, Rantanen.
Crosby is only 58th... too bad, not elite
Better pick Thomas Vanek before Crosby since Vanek is the one who is eliteInterested to wait on your arguments on these.
VoluntaryDom
Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
Kase: yeah he’s a beast. Great shot location driver too.Explain these to me then (this is all since 17-18 to 18-19)
Ondrej Kase is 7th, clearly elite?
Dadonov is 6th, Barkov is 78th.. Everybody in the world knows which player is better and drives the line, except you?
Scheifele is 41th, Eherls is 63th, Wheeler is 87th, So clearly Wheeler is the worst of that bunch.
Vanek is 25th, better than Scheifele, Wheeler, Barkov, Rantanen.
Crosby is only 58th... too bad, not elite
Interested to wait on your arguments on these.
Dadonov: hard to say with his sample but all indications are he’s an amazing offensive player. Great rates despite Florida overplaying their top-6.
Wheeler: yes he’s worse than Scheifele and Ehlers at this point
Vanek: his defense is absolutely terrible but he really gets overlooked offensively due to lack of footspeed
Crosby: tbf he had a snakebitten 17-18 and still drives play really well. But he may have fallen out of my top 5 centers.
VoluntaryDom
Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
PP stats can be so system influenced though. Weve seen many times when a new coach comes in that players PP stats all of a sudden change. Same is true of goalies on the PK.
VoluntaryDom
Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
VoluntaryDom
Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
How? Kase is 7th in p1/60 when Crosby is 58th
Isn't this a no brainer when you read these statistics?
VoluntaryDom
Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
I don’t only use p1/60 it’s just a valuable metric. There are still some sample size concerns with Kase and he plays easier minutes than Sid. With that said kase is a beastttt
VoluntaryDom
Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
And I’m pretty sure among the young players listed Rantanen also has the worst xgf% so there’s that
Hahahha so when your stats are flawed then you start using secondary statistics just something that will benefit a specific player.
How great, you just cant admit that a player is good. If MacKinnon makes a nobody to a 100 point player, MacKinnon must be so much better than McDavid that it's not even close at all because McDavid can't do that himself even when he plays with Draisaitl.
VoluntaryDom
Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
MacKinnon might be on McDavids level offensively but McDavid wins that battle defensively every time. And no I don’t use secondary assists at all, I just rank players on things other than pure point production. Crosby clearly had an unlucky 17-18 which hurts his point totals.
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
Okay, after going over things, I’m easily taking Group B.
My reasoning here is that if you even have a decent team, adding either one of these groups easily makes your team the best in the NHL. No contest. Perhaps group A makes your team marginally better than group B does, perhaps vice versa, but it really doesn’t matter. Either way your team is f***ing insane with either group added.
The only way your team doesn’t easily win the Cup with these groups added is if your team was downright terrible before adding them, or in the case of injuries. And in the case of injuries, a team with group B is much more equipped to handle injuries and be resilient.
Here is what the Sharks would look like if they added group B, and then their best player (McDavid) got injured:
Meier-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Hertl-Matthews-Kucherov
Sorensen-Thornton-Pavelski
Kane-Couture-Donskoi
Meanwhile, here’s what they are would look like if they took Group A and Crosby got injured:
Ovechkin-Malkin-Pavelski
Hertl-Couture-Meier
Sorensen-Thornton-LaBanc
Kane-Suomela-Donskoi
Yeah, both those lineups are f***ing crazy. But only one of them really is at “guaranteed Cup” level.
My reasoning here is that if you even have a decent team, adding either one of these groups easily makes your team the best in the NHL. No contest. Perhaps group A makes your team marginally better than group B does, perhaps vice versa, but it really doesn’t matter. Either way your team is f***ing insane with either group added.
The only way your team doesn’t easily win the Cup with these groups added is if your team was downright terrible before adding them, or in the case of injuries. And in the case of injuries, a team with group B is much more equipped to handle injuries and be resilient.
Here is what the Sharks would look like if they added group B, and then their best player (McDavid) got injured:
Meier-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Hertl-Matthews-Kucherov
Sorensen-Thornton-Pavelski
Kane-Couture-Donskoi
Meanwhile, here’s what they are would look like if they took Group A and Crosby got injured:
Ovechkin-Malkin-Pavelski
Hertl-Couture-Meier
Sorensen-Thornton-LaBanc
Kane-Suomela-Donskoi
Yeah, both those lineups are f***ing crazy. But only one of them really is at “guaranteed Cup” level.
KoozNetsOff 92
Hala Madrid
- Apr 6, 2016
- 8,567
- 8,229
You have zero chance of keeping the group of 5 with the salary cap unless you want AHL D and goaltending. And all this "depth" talk is strange because you can throw peak Crosby/Malkin/OV on separate lines and you have 3 elite lines that will be among the best in the league. Excluding McDavid, they are light years ahead of everyone in the 2nd group.
Randy Randerson
Registered User
you leave out only stats that hurt your favorite players.
secondary assists can very well be as important or more important than primary assist. Powerplay scoring is VERY important and you can't say anything about that.
Leading NHL scorer is not elite, yeah right.. you would trade Rantanen for Ondrej Kase just says everything about your understainding of hockey.
Ad
Upcoming events
-
TO ADVANCE SEMIFINAL - Borussia Dortmund @ Paris Saint-Germain - 2nd leg. 1st leg result: Borussia Dortmund1-0Wagers: 4Staked: $1,429.00Event closes- Updated:
-
2024 NHL Draft Lottery Team that wins #1 pick - PICK ONLY ONE TEAMWagers: 18Staked: $20,242.00Event closes- Updated:
-
Stanley Cup 2024 Stanley Cup Champion - ONLY BET ONE TEAMWagers: 11Staked: $56,709.00Event closes- Updated:
-
Game 2 Carolina Hurricanes @ NY Rangers - NYR leads 1-0Wagers: 6Staked: $17,459.00Event closes
- Updated:
-