If you belong to any kind of Union, let us hear your thoughts

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by hockeyhomer99, Dec 18, 2004.

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  1. hockeyhomer99

    hockeyhomer99 Registered User

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    Lets hear from the Union people as to how you percieve the NHLPA dealings..

    Please only Union members and please I.D the Union


    BTW.. UAW and the last proposal was a major move, but we have no movement from the owners at all
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2004
  2. dkrause1971

    dkrause1971 Registered User

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    UAW-
    The Owners did move a little on the cap being higher then before. I am not sure how so many post on this board feel that the owners should agree to one of these luxuary taxes. The cap is their one major chip and you know what? Maybe they really are that bad off financially and feel they must have it. We'll find out if they are willing to cancel a season over it won't we. I funny how so many so easily decide what is fair for each side when we have no idea of the majority of the information needed to decide. My friend is like "some of the good euros will leave", well hell if you don't have the money- you don't have the money.

    Another point i constantly read on this board is how greedy the owners are for wanting a profit and how they clean house when they sell the team off. It all relative isn't it? Depends if they bought the team before the big 90's boom. I don't see the Gates, Dells and Allens jumping into the NHL which tells me its not that great an investment. Allen does even make money off the Trail Blazers. Rich boys with big toys is mainly it.

    But back to the question- You cannot really judge this lockout until the breaking point of this season. I will believe the owners more if they cancel the season over this. Until, that point they are playing the one card they said they needed too. It will be bad negioating if Bettman didn't. As for the NHLPA- The last offer really wasn't anything longterm but got some PR buzz for them which is good.

    I personally think the league in general is in that bad of shape. The NHL market sucks, the dollar is dropping in value, the economy sucks and now they don't have the expansion dollars to use toward salaries either.

    Don
     
  3. I may be one of the few posters here who has actually been terminated from a job, due to having been nominated by co-workers to lead an unsuccessful attempt to unionize. Thanks to the NLRB, I was vindicated.

    I was also a Teamster for several years.

    Unions obviously exist to negotiate the best possible deal for their members. That said, good union leadership realizes when the company/industry they are negotiating with is in serious trouble --- trouble that could adversely affect the continued employment of it's members.

    I honestly believe that the NHLPA recognizes the troubled position the league is in, and will eventually begin to negotiate some form of "cost certainty" (whether it's a cap, a strong luxury tax, ... ) with the league, once other concessions from the owners have been made.
     
  4. Dave is a killer

    Dave is a killer Dave's a Mess

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    I knew there was a reason I didn't like you...unions suck!
     
  5. Zing!!

    My compliments to whoever helped you with the big words.
     
  6. The union (brotherhood) that I work around (I am not a member) would not be happy about turning down a deal that helps 91% of the membership in favor of holding out for a deal that caters to the top 9%. The NHLPA is not really a union in the traditional sense but a collective body that allows for collusion amongst its members and those that service it.
     
  7. Dave is a killer

    Dave is a killer Dave's a Mess

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    about focking time someone admitted that the PA isn't a real union
     
  8. Hasbro

    Hasbro Can He Skate?! Sponsor

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    It's a cartel.
     
  9. IWD

    IWD ...

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    Besides, aren't actual unions supposed to negotiate contracts/wages for all their members?
     
  10. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    ... and which deal offered cater to 91% of the union ???
     
  11. mudcrutch79

    mudcrutch79 Registered User

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    I think that the point is that this argument is really about protecting the elite as opposed to the run of the mill NHL player from the union perspective. The vast majority of NHL players would be better off with a flat $1.3 million dollar salary for any player who was in the league. This is a battle to protect the minority of the union members, and it's costing the majority far more than they'll ever see in return.
     
  12. hockeyfan125

    hockeyfan125 Registered User

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    Unions are all that is ruining society... :madfire:
     
  13. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    Under a hard salary cap it's the lower tiered players that suffer the most. The NHL owners are trying to entice the lower paid players, but if they fall fir it, they'll end up being the suckers.

    Take a look at the NFL. It's not the stars that have seen their money drop. Stars still get paid like stars, and the lowered tierd players have to split what little there is left of the pie.
     
  14. iagreewithidiots

    iagreewithidiots Registered User

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    So untrue. Scrubs get paid like scrubs.

    The guys that get hurt are the over the hill and aging. The guys teams used to keep around because of what they used to be.

    The star players are most certaintly taking less money. What would Peyton Manning be worth in a non cap NFL?
     
  15. iagreewithidiots

    iagreewithidiots Registered User

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    The members of the NHLPA are doing the unthinkable.

    Whenever you belong to a union and you are locked out or on strike it is inexcusable to take another job in your profession.

    Any player playing in another league, taking a job away from another player, is no better then a scab.
     
  16. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    The "scrubs" you speak of, the 4th line 5-7th defenseman you speak of , the guys you think the NHL offers is better for, would see their salaries quickly drop to the $300K-$700K range, so that teams could afford to pay the Thornton's, Sundin's, Sakic's of the world.

    The "so-called" scrubs wouldn't see the hit as part of the NHL's rollback, but it would be much worse for them, as their deals when expired would get slashed by 50% or more.


    Manning contract is for an average of $14 million per season, and it included a $34.5 million signing bonus.
     
  17. iagreewithidiots

    iagreewithidiots Registered User

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    OH NO! The 4th liners would only make 300k-700k per season. Oh the humanity!

    If thats whats being offered then thats what he has to play for, or so the PA boners always say.

    Yea no kidding. How much would he be worth with no cap?
     
  18. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    That was the whole point. The argument is that this is a good deal for the power paid NHL guys. No it isn't, the lower paid guys will get killed under a hard cap enviornment.

    Manning would be worth more, but on a on a percentage basis, not nearly as much as other players. In an uncapped world Manning would probably get 18 million or so per year.

    However if there was no cap Manning, age 28, wouldn't have as much leverage because he wouldn;t have become a UFA,
     
  19. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    That would be the same way Forsberg didn't manage to pull in a huge deal as a RFA, or Bure or Pronger or Jagr or Kariya etc etc etc.
     
  20. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    You mean dumb owners ???
     
  21. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    The weakest link in any system is usually human.
     
  22. TonySCV

    TonySCV Golden

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    Very true. Ironically, the group in all of this that should be held in the higest regard is the officials. They agreed from the onset to honor the lockout and not work until the NHL resumes play. Too bad the players don't see it the same way.
     
  23. iagreewithidiots

    iagreewithidiots Registered User

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    You call 4th liners getting 300k-700k getting killed? Please thats more then fair.
     
  24. DownFromNJ

    DownFromNJ Registered User

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    300k-700k isn't all that much when your making it for maybe 8-10 years and then you retire. Now, I could live on it, but I'm not a professional athlete in the best league in the world.
     
  25. looooob

    looooob Registered User

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    well that's still 2.4M - 7 M dollars (using your figures) they will have earned by age 30. I happen to think these footsoliders (so to speak) are fairly paid as they are elite athletes in a competitive job environment, so this isn't a complaint...but I never really understand the 'short career' argument in isolation. I don't expect to retire completely by 35, and neither should they.
     
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