If Vegas wins the cup will we see a shift in how winning teams are put together?

grentthealien

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Oct 2, 2016
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With Vegas just 3 wins away from a Stanley cup I’ve been starting to wonder that if they win will it cause a ripple effect throughout the league? We all know that the latest cup winners are often mimicked by a multitude of teams hoping to have found the latest formula for success whether it be in terms of style or the way they build their teams. I’m more focused on how teams might be built differently from here on out. We often see great importance put on terms like #1 center or #1 defensemen. Occasionally people will highlight number 1 wingers and goalies as well, but usually it is the center or defensemen that is valued the most.

If you look at most cup winners both pre and post lockout they have usually had at least one or multiple #1 centers or #1 defensemen on their rosters. Recent examples include Kopitar and Doughty, Bergeron and Chara, Towes and Keith, Crosby, Malkin and Letang, Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidstrom etc etc. Sometimes if a team was lacking a one or the other they would make up for it by stockpiling multiple players at one of these positions like the 2017 Penguins who won without Letang with their 1-2 punch of Crosby and Malkin down the middle or the 2007 ducks who didn’t have a truly elite centre at the time, but didn’t need one as they cruised through the playoffs with both Pronger and Neidermayer solidifying their blueline.

With all due respect to William Karlsson and Nate Schmidt I don’t see either of them as elite players at their position. Don’t get me wrong they are great players, but just not quite elite guys. The only guy who would fit the criteria I was going on about above would be Fleury who is a #1 goalie, but even he was a backup with a G.A.A above 3.00 last season. Then again Goaltending has always been a hard position to measure in value , but I digress.

With seemingly none of the elite cornerstone players listed above the most obvious explanation for this Vegas run is that they are a team that is 4 lines deep with a good D core and even better goaltending and of course great coaching that makes them perhaps the hardest working team in the league. All of the above has become commonplace knowledge, but can it be replicated?

The closest champion that I could find that would resemble Vegas would seemingly be the 2006 Hurricanes who aside from a#1 centre in a prime Eric Staal really got by on a deep forward group, a hard working lunch pail group of D-men and a a red hot goalie. That championship team was a flash in the pan and never really got all that close to the promised land again and even missed the playoffs the following season. They were never really replicated.

So now in 2018 where the salary cap makes it quite difficult to create and maintain a winner will we still see most teams throwing a ton of money at elite position players to try and create a core to build around or will we see a trend in teams that save their money from being tied up in long term players worth 9 million or more and instead invest that money in building a steady team that is deep thoughout all its lineup ? If Vegas wins the cup I could certainly see quite a few teams especially small market teams trying to build this way. The question is though can this be replicated or is Vegas just lightning in a bottle that has been created under very unique circumstances that can’t be replicated like their expansion draft?

Now with all that said I’d like to apologize for the long read and just say that I think a lot of my speculation may hinge on Vegas wining the cup as there are plenty of underdog teams that have gotten close, but have merely lost and been long since forgotten. The series is tied and the Capitals could very much still win the cup with a much more familiar cup team format. Anyway, I’d love to hear all your thoughts and criticisms below and I hope everyone has been enjoying this year’s playoffs:)
 

JuniorNelson

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Jan 21, 2010
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I thought LV would be weak at center. I advocated for attacking the RFA pool with offer sheets because I didn't think they'd get a top center otherwise.

They overcame it.

McPhee deserves a trophy named after him or something.
 

TGWL

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I don't know if we'll see a ripple effect, or any real shift of how teams are put together, but Coaches might structure their team to play differently. In my opinion, Vegas isn't winning these games because they have 4 lines deep that other teams with elite talent (or known elite players) can't match, but Vegas has a roster full of players that completely bought into how they want to play. They cover and hustle for each other. They allow their defense to pinch at will by back-checking like monsters through the neutral zone. There's no quit with them. Vegas isn't a team built around all small players that gets pushed around -they have size, speed, skill, but most of all I think they all have work ethic and the desire to play every shift just as hard as their last shift.
 

Paperbagofglory

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Nov 15, 2010
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Think of the Carolina Hurricanes and their ordinary defense, depth and balance with no clear superstars. Did them winning change the NHL philosophy?

A goalie turns super human for a few weeks leading to a cup victory or finals appearance. This will not change scouts perceptions or the way teams are built.
 

HunterSThompson

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I don't know if we will see a "shift" and I don't think they have to win the Cup for any change to happen. I do think teams might take a harder look at guys they have underrated on their own teams and realize superstars are not the end-all-be-all and not having a weak link can work too.
 

Paperbagofglory

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I don't know if we will see a "shift" and I don't think they have to win the Cup for any change to happen. I do think teams might take a harder look at guys they have underrated on their own teams and realize superstars are not the end-all-be-all and not having a weak link can work too.
Every recent team that has won the cup has had 1 or two superstars in their lineup.

Think back to the last team that won it collectively with depth. Can you find anyone other than the Carolina Hurricanes?

Kings had Kopitar and Doughty and prime Quick. Penguins had Malkin and Crosby and secondary star Kessel. Hawks had Keith, Hossa and Kane.
 

King'sPawn

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Some teams will try to emulate the success of the cup winner by nature. Some teams tried to emphasize toughness in response to the Bruins and Kings winning the cup; other teams have tried to emphasize speed and skill in response to the Blackhawks and Penguins winning the cup.

If Vegas wins, teams may try to emphasize depth and chemistry.
 

Paperbagofglory

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Some teams will try to emulate the success of the cup winner by nature. Some teams tried to emphasize toughness in response to the Bruins and Kings winning the cup; other teams have tried to emphasize speed and skill in response to the Blackhawks and Penguins winning the cup.

If Vegas wins, teams may try to emphasize depth and chemistry.
Vegas is not winning the cup, and you can't win with depth alone. You need that one X factor.
 

ChanceVegas

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Jan 3, 2018
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Actually, I think Vegas is a product of the shift that's already happening. They are very much like the Pens, Devils, TB and other speedy teams. A lot of the NHL is already moving this direction.

I also think it will have GM's looking a little more closely at the guys buried on their team, but the salary structure in the NHL makes it hard to restructure teams.
 
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HunterSThompson

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Every recent team that has won the cup has had 1 or two superstars in their lineup.

Think back to the last team that won it collectively with depth. Can you find anyone other than the Carolina Hurricanes?

Kings had Kopitar and Doughty and prime Quick. Penguins had Malkin and Crosby and secondary star Kessel. Hawks had Keith, Hossa and Kane.
And I don't think we have seen a team built quite like Vegas, playing like Vegas is.
 

Paperbagofglory

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Nov 15, 2010
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Actually, I think Vegas is a product of the shift that's already happening. They are very much like the Pens, Devils, TB and other speedy teams. A lot of the NHL is already moving this direction.

I also think it will have GM's looking a little more closely at the guys buried on their team, but the salary structure in the NHL makes it hard to restructure teams.
You can't include them in a list with one team that has Crosby. Seriously?

Speed and skill is not the only combo you need to win in the playoffs, the exception being the Penguins considering who they have in their lineup. You will still need to build a team like the capitals to have a shot. Even using them as an example is not right because they have someone named Ovechkin.
 

tarheelhockey

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It's a copycat league, so you can be assured that every GM, coach, scout, and analyst in the league is picking that team apart to copy their "secret sauce".

How that shows up in practice is going to be interesting. I suspect we'll see some teams opt out of UFA superstar sweepstakes to pursue a quality goalie and try to put together 4 decent lines.
 

Chootoi

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Jan 7, 2005
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I think you could see some of the smaller budget teams try to take some of Vegas's strengths and try to emulate them on the cheap (speed, work ethic, transition game), but I think taking risks on generally less talented players could make those teams worse. IMO there's no one, two or even three things that Vegas has done that has put them in this situation. There's a lot of dials (some out of anyones control) that have ended up just right for Vegas that probably won't ever happen again.
 

tarheelhockey

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Every recent team that has won the cup has had 1 or two superstars in their lineup.

Think back to the last team that won it collectively with depth. Can you find anyone other than the Carolina Hurricanes?

Kings had Kopitar and Doughty and prime Quick. Penguins had Malkin and Crosby and secondary star Kessel. Hawks had Keith, Hossa and Kane.

By that token, as of May 2017 the only team that had won a Cup without a #1 defenseman was... the 2006 Hurricanes.

Then the Pens did it last year.

Now either the Caps or Knights will do it this year.

Sometimes these rules really are just that arbitrary.
 

King'sPawn

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Vegas is not winning the cup, and you can't win with depth alone. You need that one X factor.

This thread is a hypothetical of Vegas winning the cup. Saying Vegas is not winning the cup is not the point of a hypothetical, especially since it's still a possibility.
 

Mulletman

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Feb 23, 2013
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Think of the Carolina Hurricanes and their ordinary defense, depth and balance with no clear superstars. Did them winning change the NHL philosophy?

A goalie turns super human for a few weeks leading to a cup victory or finals appearance. This will not change scouts perceptions or the way teams are built.
Hey don't talk shit about the Carolina Hurricanes. They had the 12th highest scorer of all time on the roster, 3 other 1000 career point scorers and Eric Staal, who'll retire with way over 1000 career points.

So by the time Staal retires, the 2006 Carolina Hurricanes will still have 5 guys who finnished in the top 90 in all time regular season points, basically only being beat by the Edmonton Oilers team of the 80s when it comes to regular season scoring.
 

ulvvf

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May 9, 2014
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Actually, I think Vegas is a product of the shift that's already happening. They are very much like the Pens, Devils, TB and other speedy teams. A lot of the NHL is already moving this direction.

I also think it will have GM's looking a little more closely at the guys buried on their team, but the salary structure in the NHL makes it hard to restructure teams.

Yeah this is basically the only lesson to be learn really, maybe you have some gem in your team that is just waiting for a real chance, espcially players that are suppose to be in their prime but are buried deep down. Going into the season vegas was basically just a bunch of 3/4 liners and bottom pair d-men. But they have had many small and big breakthroughs. Karlsson and Marchessault espically, Karlsson has turn from a bottom 6 player to around top 5C in the entire league based on this season alone. But he would probabaly have stayed a bottom 6 player in columbus is my guess.

I think it is very wrong to say that vegas do no have elite players now, they did not have that going into the season, but Karlsson and Marcheassult has absolutly been elite players, Karlsson should have won selke this year, Karlsson, smith and Marcheassult has maybe been the best line in the league this season.
 

ulvvf

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May 9, 2014
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If Fleury falls back down to Earth, the "Vegas Way" will stall in the first round of the playoffs.


Pretty much all goalies that has played for vegas this year have been good, so while fleury has been good i think people are overrating him. Vegas has had a good defense overall, but espically from the 1 line.

With that said i think it is a big risk that vegas will come down to earth next season and miss the playoff.
 

DannyGallivan

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Aug 25, 2017
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Pretty much all goalies that has played for vegas this year have been good, so while fleury has been good i think people are overrating him. Vegas has had a good defense overall, but espically from the 1 line.

With that said i think it is a big risk that vegas will come down to earth next season and miss the playoff.
Make the playoffs yes. Make a big splash in the playoffs... perhaps not (hence I hinted at them losing in the first round next year).
 

Luigi Lemieux

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Sep 26, 2003
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While i think Vegas is a great team, replicating them may be very difficult. A combination of the expansion draft, vegas shooting, and top tier coaching has produced a level of buy-in and chemistry that is far greater than the sum of their parts. It's a unique story. However it may help convince some teams that you don't need a Crosby/Malkin to play a fast aggressive style and be successful.
 

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