Proposal: If Vancouver was going to Rebuild (Proposals)

[Barnaby]

Miller is signed for 8 years...you want to trade him and then retain 50%? Lol

Are you saying the Vancouver owner won’t want to pay 30 million for a guy to play on another team? Especially when they could’ve dealt him for the same package as a pending UFA?

 

[dbaz]

For NJ switch Hughes to Demko and lower the return

demko for nemec/hughes? cap dump and conditional pick to make it easier?

 

[AKL]

It's why people on here honestly believe that every Canucks fan is a lunatic thinking we can fleece every team in the league.

It's not just him, it's a lot of you:

demko for nemec/hughes? cap dump and conditional pick to make it easier?

 

[dbaz]

It's not just him, it's a lot of you:

the other guy way overvalued i agree,
at least mine is similar to schnieder for a top 10 pick, with nj able to add a cap dump too.

maybe you are doing too much of the classic overvalueing the stats of a goalie on a shitty team, with shitty d while making every prospect the next mcdavid. (although both nemec and hughes are good prospects)

 

[Bounces R Way]

well f*** OP you've done it

you have fixed the Canucks. They should have just hired you.

 

[McJedi]

If only it were this easy. Vancouver needs to run the term down on deals like Boeser and Myers before they have some trade value or appeal as rentals.

This will be a slow rebuild, but that’s how you do it well. Over a sequence of top 10 overall picks you gotta get right. No more Virtanen misses. Vancouver has got to hit those lottery picks of theirs in 2023, 2024 and 2025.

Getting a 2023 1st + for Horvat is where this rebuild starts. Retain on Myers and get a pick for him as well. That may be the extent of the trades Vancouver makes until the summer of 2023.

 

[Luck 6]

You can keep Pettersom at that price. Columbus will just suck and draft their own center while keeping Jiricek.

Well, you’re right about the first part.

All jokes aside, that isn’t even enough for Pettersson from my viewpoint. He is a bonafide No 1 C who is still under team control and signed to a good contract.

Take away the protection, and add a bit more, then it could work IF we went this way.

Wouldn’t Columbus be at a time frame where something like that could make sense? They just acquired Gaudreau and have a decent team, shouldn’t this be the type of short term and long term deal they’re looking at?

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I doubt Vancouver rebuilds. They're gonna do another year of pointless evaluation. Make a run at the end of the season and lose out on a high end pick. What they should have done was rebuild last off season for draft picks like Montreal did. Target teams like Florida for first round picks for this year.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

It's not just him, it's a lot of you:

Sigh..... I know

I doubt Vancouver rebuilds. They're gonna do another year of pointless evaluation. Make a run at the end of the season and lose out on a high end pick.

That's what I think is gonna happen....unfortunately, the problem isn't management here its the owner

the other guy way overvalued i agree,
at least mine is similar to schnieder for a top 10 pick, with nj able to add a cap dump too.

maybe you are doing too much of the classic overvalueing the stats of a goalie on a shitty team, with shitty d while making every prospect the next mcdavid. (although both nemec and hughes are good prospects)

Yah but that trade was an anomaly, like we will never see that again.

 

[innitfam]

Good for him... but you can't do that. He's signed the contract for the next 7 years. You're retaining 50% on his contract for 7 years if you're making that trade.

I thought the CBA indicates you can only retain on the current contract?

 

[Stephen Gionta]

OK............. I just want to see if I am in the ball park.



#1..............Pettersson to Columbus for Juricek, 2023 1st (top 5 protected) , and a Plus????

#2..............Hughes to New Jersey for Nemec and 2023 1st (top 8 protected)

#3...............Kuzmenko at 50% retained (2022-2023) to Washington for Lapierre and 2024 1st

#4..............Horvat (signed) (50% retained 2022-2023) and Rathbone to Detroit for Edvinsson and 2023 1st

#5...............Miller (50% retained 2022-2023) to Boston for 2024 1st and Lysell

#6...............Demko to Minnesota for Gustavsson, Lambos, and 2023 1st

Yes, this is definitely scorched earth, and alot of Vancouver fans think we are close, but we are not, and I do not feel we will be in 2 or 3 years, mainly due to Cap restraints. IMO, these 6 players can play on any team in the league and have value.

We will also be moving on from Boeser, Garland, Mikheyev, and Myers next year, at the TDL for prospects and picks. (albeit lesser returns)

Some say this would never happen, but I say tell that to Arizona and Chicago, and earlier on Ottawa. It happens, and it will continue to happen.

We will also be interested in Cap dumps, after we have moved these players...............and would entertain short Cap dumps as part of any of the above trades.

1. Pettersson deal is fair but I don't know if it makes sense for Columbus. They do need a 1C though....

2. No chance NJ trades for Quinn Hughes. Especially not at the cost of Nemec. Let alone another 1st.... This one is horrible.

3. You are severely overrating Kuzmenko's first 15 NHL games. Washington isn't doing this.

4. Detroit is not moving Edvinsson. They might part with 2023 1st and Zadina though. But still doubt they even do that.

5. This deal is fair and realistic, but needs a little bit more value coming from Vancouver. Maybe add a 2nd rounder with Miller.

6. Fair deal if you take out one of Lambos or 2023 1st. MIN not doing both.

That Detroit trade immediately jumped out to me as being absolutely f***ing awful....


But you know what, the more I look at all of them, the more every single deal looks f***ing terrible for the team that isn't Vancouver.


You're basically asking for every teams very best, A/A+ tier prospect. Nobody trades those level of prospects. Nobody. And on top of that you want 1st round picks from mediocre or bad teams.


This is truly a master class in absolutely awful trade proposals.

Agreed. But I do think the Boston deal is close. and So is the Minnesota deal if you only do one of the 1st or Lambos. Not both

 

[stevo61]

Well, you’re right about the first part.

All jokes aside, that isn’t even enough for Pettersson from my viewpoint. He is a bonafide No 1 C who is still under team control and signed to a good contract.

Take away the protection, and add a bit more, then it could work IF we went this way.

Wouldn’t Columbus be at a time frame where something like that could make sense? They just acquired Gaudreau and have a decent team, shouldn’t this be the type of short term and long term deal they’re looking at?

No because look at the defense. Its going to take until Jiricek, Mateychuk, Ceulemans, maybe someone we dont really expect like Richard to come in and give them a boost. Gaudreau happened because it could, in a perfect world he comes in next year.
But with injuries and Bedard, Fantilli and Carlsson being in this draft Im sure theyll take their chances. The potential of a 1C, a 1st pair RHD and a plus is better than approaching mediocrity sooner. Pettersson fixes 1 hole and takes away solutions for others.

 

[markog]

demko for nemec/hughes? cap dump and conditional pick to make it easier?

Demko for Holtz+Blackwood+Johnsson (cap dump)+pick

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Petey and Hughes are off limits. Everyone else is on the block

 

[Kurrilino]

OK............. I just want to see if I am in the ball park.

No, you are absolutely not.

Your own management openly state that this core and team build is not even close to compete on NHL level.
Those guys have been offered over and over to other teams, who didn't even look at them.
Now you want to sell those guys for asking prices that would make even the Coyotes organization blush.

This is not gonna happen !!!!
Nobody will take the pain of a rebuild away from the Nucks, deal with it.
You will suck until the real ugly contracts run out and then start from square one like everyone else.
If you plan to attach sweeteners to get rid of them, you will undermine all future plans to rebuild as quick as possible.

I would think the Canucks would have learned from the Sedin debacle, where waiting for the next last and then the next last and then the next last window for a cup until no trade value is left at all, will lead to doom.
Not just that nothing was learned, the management traded away 1st rounders for players that have also proven that they can't get it done.

This will hurt you guys a lot but it is also a chance for a shiny great future

 

[zcaptain]

Minnesota got Faber (ranked 30th best player not in the NHL) and LA's 2022 1st for Fiala

Anaheim got Vaakananeinen, (2017 19th OA), 2022-1st, 2023-2nd, and a 2024 2nd for Lindholm

How am I that far off?

I think you guys do not know hockey or hockey history! Sorry Buds! You give me those types of returns for our

premium players.

Lindholm is a great player, but 28 years old. All those guys are solid players, some not even in their prime yet!

I always find it funny how HF Boards gloss over facts that do not fit their own narrative.

Not one comment on this argument, on values..........just funny

Just a final on Lindholm, who has always been a good defensive player and who has broke out this year on a good Boston team.................when Boston traded for him last year, he had not played at the level he is playing at today, and in fact, he was traded for, for other reasons other than his offense.

But yeah, you guys just gloss right over the history of trades when you get all emotional....lol

 

[Eggtimer]

Demko for Holtz+Blackwood+Johnsson (cap dump)+pick

This is way more realistic than Nemec PLUS conditional pick. I think Devils would have to add more depemdif on what the pick is . Maybe a prospect is preferred by VanC ? Bahl? Okhotiuk ? I’m not sure if NJ does that . Brodeur and Devils have said they want to use their new Goalie Developmemetal department to find goalies from within because they do not want to pay UFA like prices on a goalie when they can find it from within the organization and develop them , have them on cheap ELC and go from there .

 

[RipsADrive]

Kuzmenko for a good prospect and a first? Seriously?

The guy just got healthy scratched.

 

[Nucker101]

They won't rebuild. The idiot owner refuses to do it, especially now that he's emotionally attached to this core group of losers.

 

[rangersfansince08]

That Detroit trade immediately jumped out to me as being absolutely f***ing awful....


But you know what, the more I look at all of them, the more every single deal looks f***ing terrible for the team that isn't Vancouver.


You're basically asking for every teams very best, A/A+ tier prospect. Nobody trades those level of prospects. Nobody. And on top of that you want 1st round picks from mediocre or bad teams.


This is truly a master class in absolutely awful trade proposals.

This has become the norm for a large portion of Canucks fans

Kuzmenko is on a 60 pt scoring pace, and plays well off the puck.....he is also 26 years old...prime!

The $450,000 in his contract year = approx $150,000 at the trade line, something I believe Washington, Tampa and other cap strapped teams can handle.

The cost is for the talent, the minor cost of his contract (almost free) and his age. IMO, he fits into alot of second lines. I have been impressed with him so far. He goes to the net well. Definitely not a perimeter player.


What would you gives us? Aka, it starts with a 2023 1st and a plus (a good plus!)

Pacing doesn't mean much. Plus 60 pts isn't really a big deal anymore.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I don't see how a tear it down and rebuild scenario makes sense for Vancouver. They have some good young talent in key positions. Pettersson might not be the elite 1C some Vancouver fans thought he was destined to be, but he's still better having than trading for futures. Hughes is a good defenseman to build around. Kuzmenko is a good piece, although dealing him now if he isn't going to re-sign makes sense. Demko is a great goalie to build around unless his struggles this year are because he doesn't want to be a Canuck, which I doubt.

Don't blow it up. Fire the GM. Hire a competent one. Focus on getting some deals done with the older guys on the roster that probably aren't going to be key pieces for long (looking at you Horvat). Maybe see if you can get anything at all for Miller, and then just move forward trying to build with the cornerstone pieces you have. You already have the hardest pieces to get - #1 goalie, #1 defenseman, and #1 center. If you want to blow it all up around those three guys, fine, but don't do a scorched earth rebuild.

Now, that said. If you are burning it to the ground, Edmonton's in on Demko and one of Garland or Kuzmenko.

 

[zcaptain]

Yeah Washington isn’t trading the equivalent of two Late 1sts for Kuzmenko based on a handful of games. That 2024 1st is unlikely to be traded at all with so much uncertainty around Returning/Retiring Vets.

After going back and looking what I am asking for................I agree, that is too steep.

But I would ask for one or the other..........so either Lappiere or 2024 1st

His pace is 60+ and at $150,000 for the rest of the year, that is insane, so his value is at least that.

I am leaning more for a 2023 1st at this point

 

[ponder]

These 2 are unrealistic:

#4..............Horvat (signed) (50% retained 2022-2023) and Rathbone to Detroit for Edvinsson and 2023 1st

#5...............Miller (50% retained 2022-2023) to Boston for 2024 1st and Lysell

Why would Horvat extend, pre-trade, for a team he has zero history/loyalty towards (Detroit)? If Vancouver don’t manage to re-sign him, he’ll test the market. Horvat in a trade is an expiring contract, and that return is too much for an expiring, even a very good one like Horvat. Expiring contracts don’t return legit blue chip prospects like Edvinsson.

JT Miller, that return is WAY too much. Very good offensive player, but a liability defensively, and on a bad contract.

For the other ones, though, I think you’re in the right ballpark value wise.

Last note - pretty sure you can’t retain just one year of a multi-year deal, you have to retain the same amount every year until the deal expires.

 

[Ita]

These 2 are unrealistic:

#4..............Horvat (signed) (50% retained 2022-2023) and Rathbone to Detroit for Edvinsson and 2023 1st

#5...............Miller (50% retained 2022-2023) to Boston for 2024 1st and Lysell

Why would Horvat extend, pre-trade, for a team he has zero history/loyalty towards (Detroit)? If Vancouver don’t manage to re-sign him, he’ll test the market. Horvat in a trade is an expiring contract, and that return is too much for an expiring, even a very good one like Horvat. Expiring contracts don’t return legit blue chip prospects like Edvinsson.

JT Miller, that return is WAY too much. Very good offensive player, but a liability defensively, and on a bad contract.

For the other ones, though, I think you’re in the right ballpark value wise.

Last note - pretty sure you can’t retain just one year of a multi-year deal, you have to retain the same amount every year until the deal expires.

#4 the trade simply won't happen if he doesn't agree to a sign and trade. For a rental, you are totally right he won't get a player like Edvinsson.

#5 Miller yea the only way I see JT getting that kind of return is if Vancouver retains on all years. Maybe 2-3M/ year.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Minnesota got Faber (ranked 30th best player not in the NHL) and LA's 2022 1st for Fiala

Anaheim got Vaakananeinen, (2017 19th OA), 2022-1st, 2023-2nd, and a 2024 2nd for Lindholm

How am I that far off?

I think you guys do not know hockey or hockey history! Sorry Buds! You give me those types of returns for our

premium players.

Lindholm is a great player, but 28 years old. All those guys are solid players, some not even in their prime yet!

LA traded from a position of strength to get a player they needed who was still young and also an RFA, they also traded a low draft pick in one of the weakest drafts in NHL history, hmmmm....

Vaakananein wasn't their top prospect and again a 1st rounder in a weak draft, and it was for a top pairing Dman, which hardly ever get traded.

Petey deal is reasonable, can't see Columbus doing it but regardless.

All of the other ones are awful, don't take into consideration needs and aren't realistic at all.

Not all of you proposals are way off, but enough are and enough have been. Again you don't look enough at what the other team is giving up compared to what they are getting back.