If Kuch and McD both get 100 assists

[HolyHagelin]

We have all talked a lot this year about what an achievement it will be when McDavid becomes the 4th player in history to get 100 assists, as he has been pacing it for a while now.

Kucherov got to 93 last night, and with 5 games to go has a serious shot at also joining the 100 apples club.

If both players achieve this incredibly rare milestone in the same season, does this devalue the achievement in your eyes? As in, if they could both do it there must be some condition that allowed this?

Or still just absolutely bonkers and we are all lucky to have witnessed it?

Click to read more...

 

[Dingo]

Id have to see if assists are at an alltime high in order to devalue it. I sincerely doubt there are more assists per game handed out this year than any season from 1970-1993, roughly.

Guys like Crosby, Forsberg, Jagr, would definitely have had shots at 100 in different conditions, but Lafleur, Espo, Trottier, Stastny, Yzerman, Oates, Francis, etc. etc etc all had all their prime seasons in a period better than now to achieve this and did not, so... id say its very, very impressive.

 

[HolyHagelin]

Id have to see if assists are at an alltime high in order to devalue it. I sincerely doubt there are more assists per game handed out this year than any season from 1970-1993, roughly.

Guys like Crosby, Forsberg, Jagr, would definitely have had shots at 100 in different conditions, but Lafleur, Espo, Trottier, Stastny, Yzerman, Oates, Francis, etc. etc etc all had all their prime seasons in a period better than now to achieve this and did not, so... id say its very, very impressive.

When i checked like 10 days ago there were 1.61 assists/goal this season

 

[Frank Drebin]

When i checked like 10 days ago there were 1.61 assists/goal this season

compared to..?

I think its still pretty bonkers, Mogilny and Selanne both recorded 76 goals in the same season. Neither came anywhere close again.

 

[Dingo]

When i checked like 10 days ago there were 1.61 assists/goal this season

and then we would have to multiply that by goals per game, and do the same with other seasons.

Ill wait. One of the awesome nerds on this site will probably soon clean this up better than i ever could.

 

[HolyHagelin]

compared to..?

I dont have any historical numbers i was providing the first bit of context for the other poster who said they needed more numbers. I am asking for opinions/discussion, not volunteering to do all the research and make your opinion for you.

Re-reading that it sounds a bit combative I don’t mean to be; i am just from new jersey and can’t help it.

and then we would have to multiply that by goals per game, and do the same with other seasons.

Ill wait. One of the awesome nerds on this site will probably soon clean this up better than i ever could.

Calling @Hockey Outsider he/she seems to do a pretty damn bang up job at odd stuff like this

 

[Dingo]

compared to..?

I think its still pretty bonkers, Mogilny and Selanne both recorded 76 goals in the same season. Neither came anywhere close again.

and they were young!

I wish we could have seen those up and coming 90s stars get to play long, healthy careers in a similar scoring environment to the guys who came before them.

Ditto for the Crosby generation compared to the kids, now.

The odds that Crosby was at his best when he got 120 are about the same as Selanne being at his best in his rookie year. Not likely.

 

[Mulletman]

If both players achieve this incredibly rare milestone in the same season, does this devalue the achievement in your eyes? As in, if they could both do it there must be some condition that allowed this?

Yes, it will devalue it if Kucherov hits 100 assists too. Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr and Mcdavid is special! Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, McDavid and Kucherov is not...

 

[Dingo]

I dont have any historical numbers i was providing the first bit of context for the other poster who said they needed more numbers. I am asking for opinions/discussion, not volunteering to do all the research and make your opinion for you.

Re-reading that it sounds a bit combative I don’t mean to be; i am just from new jersey and can’t help it.


Calling @Hockey Outsider he/she seems to do a pretty damn bang up job at odd stuff like this

yep. My favourite poster on this site. I also like @Michael Farkas but i would like him more if he could simply admit that Tim Thomas was really good for a few years. I KNOW that he wants to admit it!!

Yes, it will devalue it if Kucherov hits 100 assists too. Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr and Mcdavid is special! Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, McDavid and Kucherov is not...

what an absurd way of looking at it.

 

[ricky0034]

I dont have any historical numbers i was providing the first bit of context for the other poster who said they needed more numbers. I am asking for opinions/discussion, not volunteering to do all the research and make your opinion for you.

Re-reading that it sounds a bit combative I don’t mean to be; i am just from new jersey and can’t help it.


Calling @Hockey Outsider he/she seems to do a pretty damn bang up job at odd stuff like this

not sure how it changed year to year but apparently the average throughout the entire history of the league is 1.63

Average Assists Per Goal NHL | StatMuse

average assists per goal NHL

www.statmuse.com

 

[EXTRAS]

If Joe Thornton was in his prime now he pretty easily is a 100 assist guy I'd think. He had 92 and 96 assist seasons in dead puck eras. His 96 assist season he beat the 2nd guy in assists by 25. Mcdavid is beating kuch by just 6 and McKinnon by just 16.

I think it kinda devalues it.

 

[JFleegs]

Wait so it was special if Mcdavid does it but since Kucherov is about to do it, it is now devalued? Lmao

 

[Matsun]

Assist leaders:
McDavid 99
Kucherov 93
Mackinnon 83
Q.Hughes 70

Kucherov is miles ahead of Hughes who would lead in a normal year. It just happens that we are blessed with 3 all time seasons at the same time.

 

[ijuka]

I mean, only Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, and Bobby Orr have ever accomplished this in the past.

So, inevitably, other players accomplishing it will diminish the value of the achievement.

 

[EXTRAS]

Wait so it was special if Mcdavid does it but since Kucherov is about to do it, it is now devalued? Lmao

I think it's just a way of pointing to era. Getting a 100 point season 10-15 years ago was a big milestone, usually only 1 or 2 did it. Last year 11 players got there with 13 on pace.

 

[Dingo]

If Joe Thornton was in his prime now he pretty easily is a 100 assist guy I'd think. He had 92 and 96 assist seasons in dead puck eras. His 96 assist season he beat the 2nd guy in assists by 25. Mcdavid is beating kuch by just 6 and McKinnon by just 16.

I think it kinda devalues it.

his two years came in 05-06 and the 06-07? i think?

powerplays were intentionally way, way up. Crosby got 120 points, mostly on the PP, as a 19 year old. I think he was better during his 104point season years later.

Those two years are a blip statistically that jump out from the rest of the years between 96-97 and 2016-2017 (iirc)

Wait so it was special if Mcdavid does it but since Kucherov is about to do it, it is now devalued? Lmao

i know. its ridiculous. I think Bedard has been overhyped, im not sure about him, yet... i mean, i know that he is good, but i have my doubts that he is as good as touted.

If he scores 70 goals and breaks 150pts next year my reaction will be "well, f*** me, i was wrong about him!"

 

[ricky0034]

If Joe Thornton was in his prime now he pretty easily is a 100 assist guy I'd think. He had 92 and 96 assist seasons in dead puck eras. His 96 assist season he beat the 2nd guy in assists by 25. Mcdavid is beating kuch by just 6 and McKinnon by just 16.

I think it kinda devalues it.

feels like more of a competition thing than anything else as far as that gap goes

Spezza was 2nd in assists that year and he only even played 68 games

if you look at say 5th place Thornton finished 28 assists ahead to McDavid's current lead of 33, or 38 assists ahead of 10th place to McDavid's current lead of 37, or 42 ahead of 20th place to McDavid's current lead of 46

 

[HolyHagelin]

Wait so it was special if Mcdavid does it but since Kucherov is about to do it, it is now devalued? Lmao

I am not claiming so, i am ready to give both guys their propers, just curious about the sentiment since part of the allure of 100 is the exclusive list of guys who had done it.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

In the sense that the accomplishment is era driven yes. I think guys like Thornton, Crosby, Jagr also hit the mark if they were in their prime now.

 

[kevsh]

Wait so it was special if Mcdavid does it but since Kucherov is about to do it, it is now devalued? Lmao

Yes, in the sense that it's prestige in big part is because it's such a rare thing. So two guys breaking it in the same year makes it at least somewhat less rare ... I don't know, it seems pretty obvious to me.

Still a phenomenal achievement, no arguing that, but more so if McDavid was the only player to do it since Gretzky or whomever.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Kucherov is aging like fine wine. I didn’t think he had this level to his game, I’d argue this is his best season of his career. Beating a prime McDavid, albeit hurt early, twice for an Art Ross, will look extremely favourable for him historically.

I don’t think it devalues it at all, Kucherov is pacing to be the 2nd best Russian of all time and I used to have Malkin clearly above him.

 

[ovythegiraffe]

All three are having outlier seasons and playing on a level above everyone else. MacKinnon has 83 and the fourth most assists is 70. In points the gap right now between 3rd and 4th is 19 points which is super rare. Assists haven't gone up all that much outside the top two

 

[Connor McConnor]

In the sense that the accomplishment is era driven yes. I think guys like Thornton, Crosby, Jagr also hit the mark if they were in their prime now.

Maybe. Or the NHL just has better players now than when they were in their prime. Guys like MacK, Drai, Kucherov, AM, and McDavid are lining up to be better than a lot of the guys Malkin, Sid and Ovi went against

 

[Mez]

well naturally the more players that reach it the more devalued it gets....but outside of that its incredible that we are seeing so much talent in the game and it should be appreciated when things like this happen...people need to stop trying to diminish everything that isn't from "their guy."

 

[Roksta]

his two years came in 05-06 and the 06-07? i think?

powerplays were intentionally way, way up. Crosby got 120 points, mostly on the PP, as a 19 year old. I think he was better during his 104point season years later.

Those two years are a blip statistically that jump out from the rest of the years between 96-97 and 2016-2017 (iirc)


i know. its ridiculous. I think Bedard has been overhyped, im not sure about him, yet... i mean, i know that he is good, but i have my doubts that he is as good as touted.

If he scores 70 goals and breaks 150pts next year my reaction will be "well, f*** me, i was wrong about him!"

What? Bedard will be a sophomore on an absolute dog sh** team, even if he scores 40 goals and 100 pts your reaction should be "well f*** me, i was wrong about him!"

I will say though he did come into the league at the perfect moment to have some insane career stats