If Johnny Hockey wins the Ross

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djpatm

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PERFECT.

So now we're being told that Matthews is better than Gaudreau, who is the third in scoring (far ahead of Matthews) art ross contender and carrying his teams entire offense and Backlund, who actually has been in the Selke conversation before COMBINED.

Remember. This is "Literally hasn't accomplished anything in the NHL at all, no awards, no titles, no nothing" Matthews. Beauty. You do you Toronto fans. Convince yourself of everything you want.

I can make these claims cause the stats back it up and Calgary is crapping the bed because of TJ Brodie, Dougie Hamilton and TJ Hamonic.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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Oh look, another thread about a Toronto player.

Gaudreau is one of the best offensive players on the planet, regardless of whether he wins the ross.
 
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StatisticsAddict99

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No one is in range of McDavid when talking about pure skill, he will be the long term Generational player. McDavid is in a league of his own(only Crosby and Ovechkin could compete with him at the same age in terms of skill).

Matthews will likely be a Malkin/Thornton type guy of our generation but he’s no Generational player, but rather a high end Franchise Center who might swipe a couple Cups.

Gaudreau is seemingly on his first PPG+ season and is likely gonna be Sedin’ish for the Flames.

I don’t see why Laine and Eichel would be out of the conversation so soon as I said earlier Gaudreau is on his first PPG+ season in is mid 20’s while Laine(not even 20 yet) and Eichel(20) are much younger. Laine and Eichel are still in the conversation but a couple of bad games and bad situations are keeping them from being PPG players and they should have that smoothed out with fixtures in the off-season on they’re deficiencies in a couple of seasons.

Also you forgot a couple guys from the same draft of Gaudreau’s in Kucherov who I think is the closest player in terms of skill to McDavid and is ahead of Matthews and Gaudreau by a safe margin and Scheifele, who is a key Franchise No.1 C who has pushed his name into the conversation of the best young players in the league over the past couple seasons(Id say him and Gaudreau are a draw at this point but the key difference is positional value at C).

McDavid
——
Kucherov
——
Matthews, Scheifele, Gaudreau, Laine, Eichel
 
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djpatm

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Feb 2, 2010
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Calgary
No one is in range of McDavid when talking about pure skill, he will be the long term Generational player. McDavid is in a league of his own(only Crosby and Ovechkin could compete with him at the same age in terms of skill).

Matthews will likely be a Malkin/Thornton type guy of our generation but he’s no Generational player, but rather a high end Franchise Center who might swipe a couple Cups.

Gaudreau is seemingly on his first PPG+ season and is likely gonna be Sedin’ish for the Flames.

I don’t see why Laine and Eichel would be out of the conversation so soon as I said earlier Gaudreau is on his first PPG+ season in is mid 20’s while Laine(not even 20 yet) and Eichel(20) much younger. Laine and Eichel are still in the conversation but a couple of bad games and bad situations are keeping them from being PPG players and they should have that either smoothed out with fixtures in the off-season on they’re deficiencies in a couple of seasons.

Also you forgot a couple guys from the same draft of Gaudreau’s in Kucherov who I think is the closest player in terms of skill to McDavid and is ahead of Matthews and Gaudreau by a safe margin and Scheifele, who is a key Franchise No.1 C who has pushed his name into the conversation of the best young players in the league over the past couple seasons(Id say him and Gaudreau are a draw at this point but the key difference is positional value at C).

McDavid
——
Kucherov
——
Matthews, Scheifele, Gaudreau, Laine, Eichel

I don't disagree with much of this (although I don't put Kucherov on a separate tier) but it's a bit disingenious to say that Gaudreau is putting up his first PPG+ year while Eichel and Laine are doing something similar at a younger age.

When Gaudreau was 22 he finished 6th in scoring, which would be 33 points this year so far. It's not his fault he played in a lower scoring year that year. Fact of the matter is, Gaudreau has been in the league 4 years. In that time he:

- Led rookies in scoring
- Came in 6th in scoring
- Led the U-23 team in scoring at the world cup
- Had an off year where he missed camp with a new coach and got hurt but still finished the second half of the season at PPG. Won Lady Byng.
- Is on pace to finish top 3 in scoring, only 2 points behind the leader.


He has made a good case for him being in a higher tier than most have him in now. Definitely a better resume than a lot of players being mentioned by certain fanbases.
 

Soliloquy of a Dogge

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You're welcome to use statistics and/or anything more than an Oiler's fans opinion to disprove this.
It's been hashed, re-hashed and then hashed some more ad nausea. There are no statistics or facts that back up your baseless opinion unless you're going to look at things in a vacuum and promote the inaccurate narrative that Matthews' supposedly superior two way game accounts for the gulf in production between them.

You're welcome to use statistics and/or anything more than your anti-Oilers bias to provide any statistic that shows Matthews is a better player than, let alone his equal, McDavid. I'll wait.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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yeah top 10 offensively.

Matthews is one of the best two centres in the NHL already.

I'm a huge Matthews fan, I don't know how you can put him ahead of Crosby, Malkin, or McDavid at this point. Guys like Kopitar, Tavares, Scheifele, Stamkos, Matthews, Backstrom, Getzlaf, Toews, Barkov, Bergeron are all in the conversation in that next tier.
 
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Flameshomer

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It's been hashed, re-hashed and then hashed some more ad nausea. There are no statistics or facts that back up your baseless opinion unless you're going to look at things in a vacuum and promote the inaccurate narrative that Matthews' supposedly superior two way game accounts for the gulf in production between them.

You're welcome to use statistics and/or anything more than your anti-Oilers bias to provide any statistic that shows Matthews is a better player than, let alone his equal, McDavid. I'll wait.

Ok.

Matthews has 4 less goals than McDavid in 48 fewer games, and has only 3 less game winning goals (13-10, at the pace of games auston will have around 15-16 when at the same amount as Connor). His playoff PPG is higher than McDavid's (small sample size for both, though). Their Corsi is actually quite close (within 2%) with McDavid getting significantly more offensive zone starts to help him boost his numbers (though both get started in the ozone more than half the time). McDavid averages around 3 minutes per game more than Matthews, yet doesn't seem to produce much more. They both have very similar giveaway/takeaway numbers, and matthews hits more than McDavid.

Visually, McDavid is the faster and more agile on the ice. Matthews is stronger on the puck, and is able to use power moves more effectively.

If I was starting a franchise I would objectively take Matthews. Your turn!! I shouldn't have indulged you but you obviously aren't prepared for this argument.

EDIT: I forgot an important one for centres: McDavid has terrible faceoff ability. Matthews is above average in the dot
 

Flameshomer

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Finally, Matthews has been leading a winning team. McDavid has lead his team into the cellar. That speaks volumes. Not saying it's mcdonut's fault, but if he truly was the best player of this era, his team would be higher in the standings.
 

Sniper99

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Jan 12, 2011
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PERFECT.

So now we're being told that Matthews is better than Gaudreau, who is the third in scoring (far ahead of Matthews) art ross contender and carrying his teams entire offense and Backlund, who actually has been in the Selke conversation before COMBINED.

Remember. This is "Literally hasn't accomplished anything in the NHL at all, no awards, no titles, no nothing" Matthews. Beauty. You do you Toronto fans. Convince yourself of everything you want.

I can make these claims cause the stats back it up and Calgary is crapping the bed because of TJ Brodie, Dougie Hamilton and TJ Hamonic.

Calder Trophy winning Auston Matthews? Is the calder trophy really "nothing" to you.

You do you Flames fan, and continue to look bad.
 

Soliloquy of a Dogge

I love you, Boots
Aug 8, 2012
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Ok.

Matthews has 4 less goals than McDavid in 48 fewer games, and has only 3 less game winning goals (13-10, at the pace of games auston will have around 15-16 when at the same amount as Connor). His playoff PPG is higher than McDavid's (small sample size for both, though). Their Corsi is actually quite close (within 2%) with McDavid getting significantly more offensive zone starts to help him boost his numbers (though both get started in the ozone more than half the time). McDavid averages around 3 minutes per game more than Matthews, yet doesn't seem to produce much more. They both have very similar giveaway/takeaway numbers, and matthews hits more than McDavid.

Visually, McDavid is the faster and more agile on the ice. Matthews is stronger on the puck, and is able to use power moves more effectively.

If I was starting a franchise I would objectively take Matthews. Your turn!! I shouldn't have indulged you but you obviously aren't prepared for this argument.

EDIT: I forgot an important one for centres: McDavid has terrible faceoff ability. Matthews is above average in the dot

Hilarious post. Matthews is more of a goal scorer than a playmaker while McDavid is more of a playmaker than goal scorer and they play the game differently from a stylistic point of view. Thank you for pointing out such an obvious realization that had escaped the rest of us, @Flameshomer.

As for your GWG comparison (and the assumptive hypothetical that came along with it), your playoff PPG comparison (13 and 6 game sample sizes lol), Corsi (again lol), OZS % (a negligible 51% vs 56%) and your refusal to acknowledge that McDavid's TOI is inflated partially due to his penalty killing shows a complete lack of understanding and a breathtaking inability to back up your absurd proclamation that Matthews is equal to or better than McDavid. Why don't you throw in his 4 goal game and his loose puck recoveries as a point in Matthews' favor as well?

Considering that their two way games are close to being a wash, I only need a couple stats to point out why every NHL executive would start their franchise with Connor McDavid instead of Auston Matthews.

You're right though, you shouldn't have entertained me. It's a waste of time considering you have nothing to offer in backing up your statement.

1.07 PPG average in his rookie season compared to Matthews' 0.84 along with better possession metrics nearly across the board.

1.22 PPG average in his sophomore season and tracking for similar possession metrics this season with Matthews' sophomore campaign despite playing nowhere near his best thus far.

Let's see Matthews actually finish a season above 1 PPG before we throw out falsities like McDavid not seeming to produce much more than Matthews offensively, okay?
 
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Soliloquy of a Dogge

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The one thing you're right about is the faceoff comparison, McDavid needs to improve that aspect of his game quite a bit. The same thing was true of Evgeni Malkin. Considering McDavid is a perfectionist and is determined to work on the shortcomings in his game, there's no doubt he'll improve it eventually.

As for things that can't be quantified, McDavid has not led the Edmonton Oilers into the cellar. He is being asked to carry a roster that isn't playing up to the standard it should and isn't built ideally for today's NHL. Hockey is a team sport, one player can only do so much. Toronto, and Matthews as a result, benefits from a more talented roster managed by a more competent GM and coached by a superior coach.
 

Coffey

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PERFECT.

So now we're being told that Matthews is better than Gaudreau, who is the third in scoring (far ahead of Matthews) art ross contender and carrying his teams entire offense and Backlund, who actually has been in the Selke conversation before COMBINED.

Remember. This is "Literally hasn't accomplished anything in the NHL at all, no awards, no titles, no nothing" Matthews. Beauty. You do you Toronto fans. Convince yourself of everything you want.

I can make these claims cause the stats back it up and Calgary is crapping the bed because of TJ Brodie, Dougie Hamilton and TJ Hamonic.
WELCOME TO MY HELL
 

Spazkat

Registered User
Feb 19, 2015
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His job is to create offense.

He's the best in the world at that so far this year.

Matthews isn't in the McDavid tier, no matter what Toronto wants you to believe. He's not even a top 10 player.

To be "the best in the world at it" wouldn't he be 1st and not 3rd?


If he wins the Ross, he enters the Jamie Benn tier.

This is the correct answer
 
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