If Dominik Hasek's career would have been 10 years earlier in Buffalo

[yzerman]

Highly hypothetical question but if Dominik Hasek career in Buffalo started season 82/83 and lasted to 90/91 insteed of 92/93 to 00/01 with Hasek in goal and his 6 vezina and his incredible dominance this period would it result in maybe at least 1 stanley cup victory for the sabres?

What do you think? its amaze me that Buffalo almost every year lost in the first round of the playoffs despite having god season in the 80s so how many cup would buffalo had win with Hasek in goal?and could Buffalo match the Oilers in any playoff?

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[Canadiens1958]

Equipment

Highly hypothetical question but if Dominik Hasek career in Buffalo started season 82/83 and lasted to 90/91 insteed of 92/93 to 00/01 with Hasek in goal and his 6 vezina and his incredible dominance this period would it result in maybe at least 1 stanley cup victory for the sabres?

What do you think? its amaze me that Buffalo almost every year lost in the first round of the playoffs despite having god season in the 80s so how many cup would buffalo had win with Hasek in goal?and could Buffalo match the Oilers in any playoff?

Hasek's approach to goaltending would have been hampered by the heavier equipment of the early 1980s. The lighter equipment started in the late 1980s/early 1990s.

 

[tony d]

Hasek actually started in Chicago. They traded him to the Sabres in 1992 I think it was. Got to think had Hasek started in the 80's and still had the same type of career he would have become the unquestioned best goalie ever and had another cup title or more.

 

[wgknestrick]

Highly hypothetical question but if Dominik Hasek career in Buffalo started season 82/83 and lasted to 90/91 insteed of 92/93 to 00/01 with Hasek in goal and his 6 vezina and his incredible dominance this period would it result in maybe at least 1 stanley cup victory for the sabres?

What do you think? its amaze me that Buffalo almost every year lost in the first round of the playoffs despite having god season in the 80s so how many cup would buffalo had win with Hasek in goal?and could Buffalo match the Oilers in any playoff?

Hasek was the most dominant player to ever play the game from a WAR/game or GAR/game level. If he could consistently get 2-3 goals for from his team, they could beat just about any team in history. The problem with the Sabres is that they only had Hasek and generally poor #1Cs and #1Ds to compliment him.

 

[yzerman]

Hasek was the most dominant player to ever play the game from a WAR/game or GAR/game level. If he could consistently get 2-3 goals for from his team, they could beat just about any team in history. The problem with the Sabres is that they only had Hasek and generally poor #1Cs and #1Ds to compliment him.

Yes and i think correct me if i am wrong but the sabres team on the 80s had a stronger offensive team and with Hasek they should probably at least taken one or two stanley cup in that time period between 82/83 and 90/91 ,and i think with Hasek orthodox style he would be even more superior in the 80s if his career peaked then.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Just looking over the Sabres' seasons, I'm struggling to understand where you're seeing a missed Cup opportunity.

In a 5-team division, they were perennially around 3rd place, 3rd best offense, 3rd best defense. Having a much better goalie would have undoubtedly helped, but I don't see it elevating them to contender status.

Also, keep in mind that the Sabres' real-life goalies during that period were Tom Barrasso and peak-level Darren Puppa.

Not seeing it.

 

[VanIslander]

Hasek's approach to goaltending would have been hampered by the heavier equipment of the early 1980s. The lighter equipment started in the late 1980s/early 1990s.

Interesting.

Hasek lost badly in three of his four starts in the 1984 Canada Cup.

Then he dominated the World juniors in 1985 with no losses in six games.

He had mixed reviews in the 1987 Canada Cup, 1988 Olympics and 1991 Canada Cup.

Then he went to Chicago of the NHL.

It looks like he got some tinkerbell pixie dust, Cinderella type **** when he turned 29 years old in Buffalo and immediately his wins and save percentage went through the roof! Then for nine years in Buffalo he was otherworldly. I remember THAT Hasek. I also remember the tarnished aging has-been in Detroit who showed occasional but no longer consistent flashes of brilliance.

I'm not sure what to make of his career before the NHL and age 28. He was good enough to represent his country in all those tourneys, but his success there was spotty at best.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Going with the hypothetical that he's in Buffalo and not Chicago, is upsetting 1988 Boston the best window of opportunity? I don't know that he'd do any better than Barrasso earlier than that.

 

[Beville]

Maybe...

But I think his late start was probably what helped him really.

 

[sr edler]

Interesting.

Hasek lost badly in three of his four starts in the 1984 Canada Cup.

Then he dominated the World juniors in 1985 with no losses in six games.

He had mixed reviews in the 1987 Canada Cup, 1988 Olympics and 1991 Canada Cup.

Then he went to Chicago of the NHL.

It looks like he got some tinkerbell pixie dust, Cinderella type **** when he turned 29 years old in Buffalo and immediately his wins and save percentage went through the roof! Then for nine years in Buffalo he was otherworldly. I remember THAT Hasek. I also remember the tarnished aging has-been in Detroit who showed occasional but no longer consistent flashes of brilliance.

I'm not sure what to make of his career before the NHL and age 28. He was good enough to represent his country in all those tourneys, but his success there was spotty at best.

It's almost like 80s 19-year old Czech goalies couldn't win Canada Cups all by themselves.

The Czechs, as a team, also love their big ice where they can put in their defensive counter attack system and also some occasional diving.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It looks like he got some tinkerbell pixie dust, Cinderella type **** when he turned 29 years old in Buffalo and immediately his wins and save percentage went through the roof!

The pads are an interesting explanation. I'm not quite sure it works because the timing (~1993) seems a little late for anyone to have been transitioning from 80s-style pads to the more modern style, but I'd be interested to know whether he made some major adjustment to his equipment circa age 28-29.

Otherwise it really is a strange career arc. Almost like Guy Lafleur in reverse.

 

[VanIslander]

It's funny to think anyone thinks Hasek's success depends on the size of pads/equipment!

Instead: Throw the stick away, flop sidewards, shoot out whatever body part can stop shot right now!

 

[The Panther]

Sabres were not really a good team in the 80s. They had that one surprising season (1983-84) when Barrasso joined and was the second-coming of Ken Dryden for a couple of seasons, but even that team (1984 Sabres) managed only 5 goals in 3 games against Quebec and were swept.

By 1987, the Sabres were last overall.

Interesting.

Hasek lost badly in three of his four starts in the 1984 Canada Cup.

Then he dominated the World juniors in 1985 with no losses in six games.

He had mixed reviews in the 1987 Canada Cup, 1988 Olympics and 1991 Canada Cup.

It has to be remembered that he was playing for Czechoslovakia, which at the time had about as much chance to win those tournaments as France did.

(He did, however, not look too good at Canada Cup '91, but that was sort of an abnormal tournament in general.)

I also remember the tarnished aging has-been in Detroit who showed occasional but no longer consistent flashes of brilliance.

You're talking about the guy who went 114-39-18 in the regular season, and 28-17, with a Stanley Cup, in the playoffs. If that's a "tarnished aging has-been", I'd hate to hear you describe Dan Cloutier...

 

[tarheelhockey]

It's funny to think anyone thinks Hasek's success depends on the size of pads/equipment!

It's not a matter of size, but composition.

His style was, without question, one which depended on modern lightweight leg pads. Even a fraction slower across the crease, even an inch lower in that pad stack, and he's getting torched.

 

[VanIslander]

You're talking about the guy who went 114-39-18 in the regular season, and 28-17, with a Stanley Cup, in the playoffs. If that's a "tarnished aging has-been", I'd hate to hear you describe Dan Cloutier...

Well, I think Osgood sucks/mediocre/average as a goalis at the NHL level. So it's all relative.

The Wings were stacked and Hasek was often shaky between the pipes in Detroit whereas in Buffalo it often seemed like he could not be beaten.

 

[mrhockey193195]

It's not a matter of size, but composition.

His style was, without question, one which depended on modern lightweight leg pads. Even a fraction slower across the crease, even an inch lower in that pad stack, and he's getting torched.

That's a fair theory, but I'm more inclined to believe that someone as great as Hasek would adjust. I actually think that he would have stood out more in the 80s, when there was less goalie coaching and the butterfly (a.k.a. the great normalizer) wasn't as prevalent. All goalies in that era relied on reflexes more than anything else, and Hasek was far and away the greatest at that.

 

[tarheelhockey]

That's a fair theory, but I'm more inclined to believe that someone as great as Hasek would adjust. I actually think that he would have stood out more in the 80s, when there was less goalie coaching and the butterfly (a.k.a. the great normalizer) wasn't as prevalent. All goalies in that era relied on reflexes more than anything else, and Hasek was far and away the greatest at that.

But he didn't stand out in the 80s.

I'm not saying it was definitely the pads, I'm just trying to figure out what it was that sparked him from being a mediocre backup, .890 type goalie, to a .930 perennial Vezina winner in one season.

 

[MXD]

I don't see how it would result in any cup window.
I mean, they'd get better goaltending, but it's not like they were getting bad goaltending to begin with.

 

[Passchendaele]

But he didn't stand out in the 80s.

I'm not saying it was definitely the pads, I'm just trying to figure out what it was that sparked him from being a mediocre backup, .890 type goalie, to a .930 perennial Vezina winner in one season.

Making your national team's roster as a starter at 19 is a damn impressive achievement if you ask me. He outperformed the other goaltender (six years older) badly as well.

Man had a .915 SP (in the 80s!) in the top league in Czechoslovakia at 17-18. Potential was definitely there.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I don't see how it would result in any cup window.
I mean, they'd get better goaltending, but it's not like they were getting bad goaltending to begin with.

More than that, they're in a divisional playoff with Montreal and Boston until 1993-94. That's the key. Upset one of them in Round 1, and you immediately play the other in Round 2. Advance past both, and you might catch a break in Round 3, but Edmonton/Calgary are on-deck.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Making your national team's roster as a starter at 19 is a damn impressive achievement if you ask me. He outperformed the other goaltender (six years older) badly as well.

Tom Barrasso did too. There are tremendous international advantages to being non-Canadian as a goaltender. The downside is that it eats into the What If? argument created by not being in the NHL, because he didn't consistently shine in best-on-best.

 

[MXD]

More than that, they're in a divisional playoff with Montreal and Boston until 1993-94. That's the key. Upset one of them in Round 1, and you immediately play the other in Round 2. Advance past both, and you might catch a break in Round 3, but Edmonton/Calgary are on-deck.

Well, Round 3 from 83 to 92 would've involved Islanders, Flyers and Penguins teams that were hardly steak haché.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Making your national team's roster as a starter at 19 is a damn impressive achievement if you ask me.

Did he beat a standout goalie for that spot?

Man had a .915 SP (in the 80s!) in the top league in Czechoslovakia at 17-18. Potential was definitely there.

Clearly the potential was there, but the fact is that age 28, after 3 years in the NHL he had a career .896 and was a backup.

The next 6 consecutive seasons he led the league in save% every year, won 4 Vezinas, 2 Harts, 2 Pearsons, a Jennings, and would have won a Smythe with slightly different bounces.

Something happened to create that seismic shift in his career track... has anyone ever put their finger on what it was?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Did he beat a standout goalie for that spot?



Clearly the potential was there, but the fact is that age 28, after 3 years in the NHL he had a career .896 and was a backup.

The next 6 consecutive seasons he led the league in save% every year, won 4 Vezinas, 2 Harts, 2 Pearsons, a Jennings, and would have won a Smythe with slightly different bounces.

Something happened to create that seismic shift in his career track... has anyone ever put their finger on what it was?

The main player young Hasek beat out was Jiri Kralik. Kralik was named as both the Directorate Best Goalie and the All-Star Goalie at both the 1982 and 1985 World Championships and awarded the Izvestia Golden Stick for the best player in Europe in 1985.

Kralik's ATD profile: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=62278205&postcount=218

Kralik doesn't seem to have done anything notable after 1985, however. So it's hard to say how much Hasek beat out a strong goalie, and how much he just took over for a guy who maybe just had a couple of really good years.

Anyway, I agree with your larger point about Hasek's NHL career.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I mean, he hadn't really played 50 games yet even at that point...so he adjusted to the speed of the game (as opposed to having a hot start and getting found and being unable to adjust like lesser players/no hockey sense players/etc.) and he played on some more conservative teams under Muckler and Nolan in increasingly conservative times...I'm not sure there's going to be a lot more to it than that...but I'm open to listening...