If Bobby Orr took a time machine from 1970 to 2017...

[authentic]

I don't see the pace of the game being any greater than it was then, if for no other reason than that the game is so highly structured now that it would basically just be two teams in defensive shells all the time.

When trap hockey took over in the late 90s, the solution was to beat teams in transition. Wait for a seam to appear, and haul ass up the ice before it could close up again. When they took the red line out, even more so you needed guys to be flying full speed as much as possible. That turned short shifts into SUPER short shifts, because you needed your guys to be skating full-blast during that split second of opportunity for a stretch pass.

In an NHL with long shifts, those opportunities would be moot. Nobody's going to beat a defenseman to the vertical seam after they've already been skating for 2 minutes. So the solution to the trap would have to be calculated, plodding attacks. Probably something along the lines of approaching your own blue line, drop pass, the next guy gets it almost to the red line, drop pass, the next guy gets it far enough to dump it in, chase, grind, hope for a turnover.

It would be S-L-O-W hockey. I kind of hate that I brought it up, because now I'm imagining having to watch it and it hurts my brain a little.

You are almost describing early 2000s hockey it seems. Except with even longer shifts, and less bear hugging and tackling.

 

[authentic]

I think it would be more like taking a legendary cross-country runner who has always raced in a track suit and soccer cleats, and throwing him into a 1-mile race against National Team runners wearing proper attire. I mean it's entirely possible that he could be the "best runner" in that race and still not win, on account of being suddenly thrown into a new set of equipment and immediately asked to do something that his body isn't physiologically trained to do at a competitive level.

Give him a reasonable amount of time to re-train and get used to his new environment, and perhaps he actually does start winning that race. At the end of the day he's still a superior athlete to some guy who happened to be good in college. There's a reason he was a legend and millions of other people weren't.

Raise him from the ground up in that environment, and of course he's going to be better than the version of himself that wasn't. That seems like a given.

No I totally get what you're saying and I don't doubt that. The possibility of Orr being born in the late 80s or 90s and being the best today with his talent level and having seen/read how much better he was than every other player of his time is a very real one, and one I even imagine from time to time. I picture a really tough Erik Karlsson. That would be best case scenario though, and the worst case could be worse than we would like to imagine, but I happen to believe he would fall much closer to the best than the worst just based on what you've stated here.

 

[Los Patos de Anaheim]

Watching old footage of players shows that they just simply weren't as talented as modern players. The elite talent in every era was an outlier; and if you dropped then into this era, forgetting any factors of fitness or adjustment, they would be below average skill level for professional hockey players except maybe guys from the 80s and 90s. Gretzky had the smarts, but I don't think he was the most skilled player. Transport elite talent into the league from past eras and I think most of them would be ok, but there's no way little Wayne Gretzky who finished his career with less than 10 body checks could physically compete in today's NHL, nor could skill level translate to points.

 

[Los Patos de Anaheim]

Another thing would be bringing them as babies in the mid 90s and having them reaching their primes about now. They would have adjusted to the pace and physicality of today's game, but their skills just don't match up.


You look at Lemieux's 2002 season after not playing for 3 seasons and you see how great of a player he was, but he adapted to the game. If you had these legends as ageless players always in their primes, they would evolve to the game and be legends today. But you can't do that, and you HAVE to take in effect fitness, physicality, and equipment. Simply put, modern legends>past legends.

 

[authentic]

Watching old footage of players shows that they just simply weren't as talented as modern players. The elite talent in every era was an outlier; and if you dropped then into this era, forgetting any factors of fitness or adjustment, they would be below average skill level for professional hockey players except maybe guys from the 80s and 90s. Gretzky had the smarts, but I don't think he was the most skilled player. Transport elite talent into the league from past eras and I think most of them would be ok, but there's no way little Wayne Gretzky who finished his career with less than 10 body checks could physically compete in today's NHL, nor could skill level translate to points.

I totally agree.

 

[authentic]

Another thing would be bringing them as babies in the mid 90s and having them reaching their primes about now. They would have adjusted to the pace and physicality of today's game, but their skills just don't match up.


You look at Lemieux's 2002 season after not playing for 3 seasons and you see how great of a player he was, but he adapted to the game. If you had these legends as ageless players always in their primes, they would evolve to the game and be legends today. But you can't do that, and you HAVE to take in effect fitness, physicality, and equipment. Simply put, modern legends>past legends.

I think looking at it going backwards, take McDavid or Crosby and put them back into Lemieux's 1989 or 1993 season, and even give them the same equipment and what not, I do fully believe they would score more points than he did in his place. It's not fair, but that's how I see it happening if such a scenario took place.

 

[authentic]

Upon watching more old Bobby Orr highlights, his lateral movement and acceleration in those old skates is truly remarkable. Would've been interesting to see what he could've done with healthy knees and modern technology.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Gretzky had the smarts, but I don't think he was the most skilled player. Transport elite talent into the league from past eras and I think most of them would be ok, but there's no way little Wayne Gretzky who finished his career with less than 10 body checks could physically compete in today's NHL, nor could skill level translate to points.

A washed up Gretzky finished 3rd in scoring and 1st in assists in 97-98, against many players who would be big time stars in the league today.

 

[BlueBaron]

You kids these days .

If Bobby Orr was in the NHL right now he would be the best player in the league. Yes the league is better now, players are bigger and stronger (sorry humans have not evolved guy, people are bigger now than they were 50 years ago).

Now if he was going to be the only guy in the league who did not work out and worry about nutrition (which is a bizarre expectation) his career may not have lasted long but his early years would still set him apart. On the flip side modern medicine may have saved his knees.

Crosby, McDavid and Karlsson are all amazing players but they are not better than Wayne, Mario and Bobby. Their performances relative to their peers was far more outstanding then the modern guys.

 

[Esq]

Has anyone ever asked him in an interview?

 

[Statto]

This is a pointless debate as everyone is already entrenched in their view on it. Either a) today's athletes are better or b) with today's setup the players of yesteryear would still dominate. However just for fun I sit in camp 'b'.

It's ludicrous to think that with modern equipment, training regimes etc that older stars wouldn't benefit. The argument really is: how much? Talent is talent so it's about how that talent would be honed in today's game.

Firstly how would Gretzky cope with the physical side of today's game? Well for a start he'd be a good 15 lbs heavier and modern training would make his muscle mass more honed . In short he'd be stronger in today's game, and more durable. Players at his size are still successful in today's game. His chronic back problems wouldn't have impacted him as much in his later years either as medical science has moved on so much. He'd still be able to avoid hits and the rules today mean he'd be better protected too. He'd be fine.

Modern equipment is much lighter and protects more effectively. Skates are lighter, better designed for being able to flex the ankle and turn tightly etc. Equipment improvements added with modern training means he'd be faster. Then there are the sticks. Modern sticks mean anyone can shot the puck with Power. So it's not unreasonable to think that Gretzkys accuracy would now be accompanied with a cannon of a shot. I could go on.

The top players would still be top players. Their natural skill level would be honed in the same way as modern stars they'd still be dominant. At 37 years of age Gretzky put up 90 points. That same Year a prime Jagr at 25/26 put up 102 points, he wasn't far behind. Gretzky did that with wingers that couldn't finish (well documented at the time) whereas Jagr was centered by Ron Francis at his best. Jagr has been relavent in his 40's and has shown without a doubt he would have dominated in today's game when in his prime. He's embraced new fitness techniques, given the way Gretzky applied himself ahead of his peers we have every reason to believe he would have too.

What's important IMO is hockey IQ, what's between the ears and Gretzky, Lemieux etc were lights out ahead of everyone and would have been today. For me a much more interesting debate is: which yesteryear players would have been elevated from just good to Elite with modern techniques and equipment. Because that's what the modern development of the game has done, it's just closed the gap between the good players and the truly elite players.

 

[nmbr_24]

Orr is the best player I have ever seen, he would be the best player today.

 

[rbochan]

He'd be taken out with a cheap shot by Lucic.

 

[BlueBaron]

This is a pointless debate as everyone is already entrenched in their view on it. Either a) today's athletes are better or b) with today's setup the players of yesteryear would still dominate. However just for fun I sit in camp 'b'.

It's ludicrous to think that with modern equipment, training regimes etc that older stars wouldn't benefit. The argument really is: how much? Talent is talent so it's about how that talent would be honed in today's game.

Firstly how would Gretzky cope with the physical side of today's game? Well for a start he'd be a good 15 lbs heavier and modern training would make his muscle mass more honed . In short he'd be stronger in today's game, and more durable. Players at his size are still successful in today's game. His chronic back problems wouldn't have impacted him as much in his later years either as medical science has moved on so much. He'd still be able to avoid hits and the rules today mean he'd be better protected too. He'd be fine.

Modern equipment is much lighter and protects more effectively. Skates are lighter, better designed for being able to flex the ankle and turn tightly etc. Equipment improvements added with modern training means he'd be faster. Then there are the sticks. Modern sticks mean anyone can shot the puck with Power. So it's not unreasonable to think that Gretzkys accuracy would now be accompanied with a cannon of a shot. I could go on.

The top players would still be top players. Their natural skill level would be honed in the same way as modern stars they'd still be dominant. At 37 years of age Gretzky put up 90 points. That same Year a prime Jagr at 25/26 put up 102 points, he wasn't far behind. Gretzky did that with wingers that couldn't finish (well documented at the time) whereas Jagr was centered by Ron Francis at his best. Jagr has been relavent in his 40's and has shown without a doubt he would have dominated in today's game when in his prime. He's embraced new fitness techniques, given the way Gretzky applied himself ahead of his peers we have every reason to believe he would have too.

What's important IMO is hockey IQ, what's between the ears and Gretzky, Lemieux etc were lights out ahead of everyone and would have been today. For me a much more interesting debate is: which yesteryear players would have been elevated from just good to Elite with modern techniques and equipment. Because that's what the modern development of the game has done, it's just closed the gap between the good players and the truly elite players.

Al Iafrate coms to mind. He would have been a beast if he trained like a pro athlete today.

 

[XX]

If you let him using modern training techniques and equipment, he'd probably be great
If you copied the exact player from 1970, he'd get absolutely destroyed.

 

[paulhiggins]

While you've still got the time machine send some of the rats back to the early/mid 70s and see how long their acts last.

 

[BonAppleTea]

I dont get the Gretzky comparisons in this thread. Gretzky played very recently compared to Orr in a more modern NHL. No doubt at all that Gretzky would dominate.
Orr would need prime and youth years to adapt to this era though, the training and equipment in the 60s-70s just wasnt as good as today (just like in pretty much all sports)

 

[BPD]

I wonder who would have been the guy who changed the game for defenders. Orr completely reclassified what "defender" meant in the hockey vernacular - he completely changed the position and paved the way for players like Coffey, Karlsson, etc.

So, how would Orr fit into today's game? No idea; he remodeled the damn thing in his image.

 

[clydesdale line]

Can we get today's medical doctors and stuff to go back to the past and fix his knee(s) instead? Dude would've put up numbers we wouldn't even fathom, much more than he already did. Probably would've been considered the greatest of all time too instead of just "in the discussion".

 

[Lshap]

Has anyone ever asked him in an interview?

Yes, but he denied ever having a time-machine and quickly changed the subject.

 

[Tripod]

In the 60's people smoked cigars and drank beer in the locker room. I recall someone, maybe Ray Ferraro, saying that nobody had muscles in the old NHL, today you have to work out constantly to get your shot. Honestly he probably would be an AHL player.

And that's just BS.

Most of us have seen the shirtless pics of Hull, Howe, Orr, etc...so I will not post them.

The big difference is that instead if lifting weights and being in the ice all summer, they were working on their farm, bailing hay, etc... To say no one had muscles is just dumb.

Now was is much more lenient? For sure. But it's not like these gust were like Big Papi in the summer time.

 

[Dead Thing Fan]

Upon watching more old Bobby Orr highlights, his lateral movement and acceleration in those old skates is truly remarkable. Would've been interesting to see what he could've done with healthy knees and modern technology.

Orr's natural talent + healthy knees + today's skates = best player in the world and it's not even close.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

His knee would explode on the first hit he took

He'd probably top out as a decent 2nd pairing dman

Lidstrom is the best D of all time

 

[tarheelhockey]

And that's just BS.

Most of us have seen the shirtless pics of Hull, Howe, Orr, etc...so I will not post them.

The big difference is that instead if lifting weights and being in the ice all summer, they were working on their farm, bailing hay, etc... To say no one had muscles is just dumb.

Now was is much more lenient? For sure. But it's not like these gust were like Big Papi in the summer time.

What's really crazy about that quote is Ray Ferraro retired in 2002. At 5'10 and having started his career in the early 1980s, he played head to head against fitness kings like Jagr and Brind'Amour, not to mention physical freaks like Lindros and Chara, and somehow he survived to tell the tale. When he was like 35 or 36 he was still a 30-50-80 type scorer in the Dead Puck league.

So it really doesn't make sense to take him at his word that the older guys who were still playing when he was in his physical prime, and posting similar numbers in a higher-scoring league, were a bunch of spaghetti armed dweebs on skates.

Sometimes these retired players say things that really have to be taken in context, especially when it comes to being interviewed for quotes about how amazing the current league is, and even moreso when it's in the direction of how you should definitely tune in to TSN every Thursday night at 8PM eastern/7PM central to find out all the latest news on these incredible athletes, only on TSN!

 

[BlueBaron]

Yes, but he denied ever having a time-machine and quickly changed the subject.